Texans @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Preseason #1

[jackal]

Im surprised that Ponder is not having to win his spot Casssel to me has looked better if not just as good ..

Ponder played good in a few games .. below average NFL standards in most of last season..

Simpson appears to be a waste as well.. I was hoping he would work out this year, for us

[The Breeze]

Huh? How would getting Christian Ponder more practice in a game situation with his new receivers help? Having Matt Cassell throw to Cordarrelle Patterson might help Patterson, but it does very little for Ponder.

I doubt very much that the Texans were playing their 2nd string defenders after two plays.

I mean the offensive line. Why put Ponder behind scrub lineman in preseason week one???? How does that help him? Cassel needs to learn the offense period...he needs reps for that reason alone.

Say what you want about the history behind this organization and it's QBs (a bit overblown IMO) but the most egregious act in recent memory was dumping Sage in favor of Webb. Ponder was hurt in his first two seasons.......they better make sure they have a backup who can actually fill in without completely changing the whole offense for him. You surely don't wait til the regular season to etablish that.

This franchise's O-line has been a nightmare in pass protection for several years now....going back to when TJack was handed the reigns. I completely applaud them for spending an entire preseason game looking at what they have for depth in that area. I look forward to more reps for those guys as the preseaon unfolds.

It doesn't matter so much who is throwing the ball to Patterson right now. He needs to be focused on running routes correctly at game speed....right? He has far more to learn other than being on time with Ponder.

I dunno. Other than it would have been nice to see another series outta the starters, and Fraizer gave his reason, I don't see much of a debate. Just the same ole same old.

[Eli]

I mean the offensive line. Why put Ponder behind scrub lineman in preseason week one???? How does that help him?

I'm not following you. Why would Ponder be on the field with anything other than the first string offensive line? I have no arguments about playing the ones for only a single series in the first preseason game, but when that series consists of just two plays, I don't see why you don't put them back on the field for another.

Not a big deal, but it seems odd. It feels like they're being overly protective, but not overly protective of anyone's physical health. More like they're afraid of what happens if Ponder falls on his face this early in camp.

[S197]

Ban yourself - you're an idiot.

No personal attacks.

[The Breeze]

I'm not following you. Why would Ponder be on the field with anything other than the first string offensive line? I have no arguments about playing the ones for only a single series in the first preseason game, but when that series consists of just two plays, I don't see why you don't put them back on the field for another.

Not a big deal, but it seems odd. It feels like they're being overly protective, but not overly protective of anyone's physical health. More like they're afraid of what happens if Ponder falls on his face this early in camp.

They wouldn't play him with the second stringers, that's my point.
I don't buy that anyone in the organization is protecting Ponder from falling on his face by not playing him. The are literally focused on protecting him, and Cassel, physically....keeping them upright. It appears a large part of the plan for at least the 1st preseason game, was to focus on what we have along the O-line for depth.

It seems they think they know what they have in Ponder...right or wrong. I'm 50/50 on the kid myself. He's got the body and tools....I agree with others who question his, ahem, 'palpabilty' in the pocket. His dealing with pressure and such. But I believe they have bigger questions, more pressing concerns, through the preseason in terms of long term success that can actually be addressed, rather than Ponder's consistency, or lack therof, which is truthfully unknown until the season is in full swing.

All that being said there will be two more games where he will get substantial work. So, I can't really buy into the belief that 6 or 7 more plays last night would have been anything more than interesting for us all to watch in terms of his long term development. I agree they could've have played them another series, but they opted not to. I don't see a conspiracy....unless it's one designed to create a bit of a chip on the starting units shoulders by leaving them with a bad taste in ther mouths.

[PacificNorseWest]

Two questions:

1) Was he playing against the first team? (A lot of QBs can look good against scrubs who are struggling to make the opposing team's squad); and
2) Do you remember how TJ used to play in pre-season for us? (He looked good in the pre-season many times. Then that pesky "regular-season" came around and was he looking good then? Not so much....)

I also remember him going 11/17 167 yards with 4 TDs and no INTs in a regular season game once. "ONCE!" (Joe Piscopo voice in Jonny Dangerously)

3rd team. I was only half serious though. I'm just rooting for the guy because I really like him. I was able to see him here in Seattle and really loved how he handled everything and his teammates love him.

[Reignman]

Why? Because you and Adam Schefter want to see one?

And you don't? You're content with having no competition and them continuing to coddle him for no good reason? Hell yeah I want a battle. I want to see Ponder and Cassel get equal time and see the better of the 2 win the starting job. Maybe that would motivate Ponder a little more. But no, lets have Ponder stink up the preseason (for example) and still give him the nod just because he was already promised the job. What is this, little league? Surely the guy with so much potential can beat out the likes of a Matt Cassel.

[The Breeze]

He finished in the top tier of the league over the final 4 games of the season....every one of them a must win game. He's thrown all of two passes, both of which were designed quick release plays, one of which gets tipped into the air, as he was hit on the release, for an INT. Now he is stinking up the preseason?
SMH~

[Mothman]

All that being said there will be two more games where he will get substantial work. So, I can't really buy into the belief that 6 or 7 more plays last night would have been anything more than interesting for us all to watch in terms of his long term development.

I can't buy into it either and I certainly can't buy into the idea that Ponder wasn't out there because the coaches are afraid of what will happen if he falls on his face this early in camp.

And you don't? You're content with having no competition and them continuing to coddle him for no good reason?

I don't think they're "coddling" him in the first place. It looks to me like they are trying to develop him, not coddle him.

Hell yeah I want a battle. I want to see Ponder and Cassel get equal time and see the better of the 2 win the starting job. Maybe that would motivate Ponder a little more.

What makes you think he needs motivation? He already knows his NFL future is on the line. He knows he's looking at the opportunity of a lifetime (to be a long term starting QB). I doubt an open competition with Cassel is going to make him try any harder. I have no doubt that he's acutely aware a former NFL starter is behind him on the depth chart, ready to step in if he falters.

But no, lets have Ponder stink up the preseason (for example) and still give him the nod just because he was already promised the job. What is this, little league? Surely the guy with so much potential can beat out the likes of a Matt Cassel.

I get it. You dislike Ponder and all it took was two snaps in one preseason game to get you complaining again. However, let's not pretend playing him another series or two last night would have made a significant difference in his development as a QB or that declaring an open competition with Cassel will somehow make a serious difference. It might make you feel better but I doubt it would make Cassel or Ponder any better. The latter knows who is waiting in the wings and the former knows he's playing behind a guy without a firm hold on the job. With that in mind, do you really believe they're not doing the best they can?

[PacificNorseWest]

The Vikings have a plan with Ponder and I happen to agree with it. No need to play him longer in a preseason game just to apease fans who are thirsty to see real football.

[DarthBrooks]

3rd team. I was only half serious though. I'm just rooting for the guy because I really like him. I was able to see him here in Seattle and really loved how he handled everything and his teammates love him.

I watched that section of the Seattle game and they were two really good throws, deep and very accurate placement. Good for him. Still wouldn't want him back in MN because I wouldn't be sure he could make throws like that consistently.

[allday1991]

I took a lot more positive away from this game than negative. Cordarrelle Patterson looked special, Floyd was doing well until the injury, Burton played a great game, and Locke had a few punts inside the ten. However I was concerned by the lack of presence for the MLB and also that Rhodes was not playing due to a nagging hamstring. Looking forward to the next few games before I completely start bashing Ponder . Be interesting to see the final depth chart come September.

[PurpleKoolaid]

The Vikings have a plan with Ponder and I happen to agree with it. No need to play him longer in a preseason game just to apease fans who are thirsty to see real football.

Man, if anyone needs preseason practice, its Ponder. More then anyone else on the team. More then any rookie. As much as AD doesn't need it, Ponder needs it. He flat out sucks. For all his supposedly high IQ, he has no mental toughness. The coaches cant bare to see him make some mistakes and fall back into the old Ponder. This is his 3rd year folks. Remember Tjoke? I bet you folks made the same excuses for him as we wasted 4 years. I may be the only one, but I think both Spielman and Fraizer will pull Ponder by game 6 for Cassel if he stinks up the place. No more Webb as a backup is another good thing.

[allday1991]

Man, if anyone needs preseason practice, its Ponder. More then anyone else on the team. More then any rookie. As much as AD doesn't need it, Ponder needs it. He flat out sucks. For all his supposedly high IQ, he has no mental toughness. The coaches cant bare to see him make some mistakes and fall back into the old Ponder. This is his 3rd year folks. Remember Tjoke? I bet you folks made the same excuses for him as we wasted 4 years. I may be the only one, but I think both Spielman and Fraizer will pull Ponder by game 6 for Cassel if he stinks up the place. No more Webb as a backup is another good thing.

I completely agree with you which is why I was so surprised he played one drive. This is the qb last year whos play calling card didn't even block 1/4 of musgraves face and consisted of mostly screens to harvin. Not to mention the two biggest stars on a WR core are new to our team ( Jennings and Patterson) and could use the extra game time to gel.

[Reignman]

He finished in the top tier of the league over the final 4 games of the season....every one of them a must win game. He's thrown all of two passes, both of which were designed quick release plays, one of which gets tipped into the air, as he was hit on the release, for an INT. Now he is stinking up the preseason?
SMH~

Whaaaa? Top tier of what? I gotta see this mythical data, and I hope it has nothing to do with ESPN's severely flawed QBR nonsense. Ponder was the QB of a team that won 4 games, nothing more nothing less. He had 1 good game during that stretch and I'm sure it had nothing to do with how the Packers were 100% focused on stopping AD from breaking ED's rushing record. Passing for 91, 131, and 174 yards with a combined 1 TD and 1 INT in the other 3 games. I'd like to know how numbers like that can be twisted to get someone into the top tier of anything, unless it's sub 200 games.

And way to take my words out of context. I guess you missed the "for example" part where I explained he could stink up the preseason and he'll still be our starter.

I don't think they're "coddling" him in the first place. It looks to me like they are trying to develop him, not coddle him.

Yeah coddled, he was handed the starting job without ever having to compete for it. And every excuse in the world is used when he plays bad. Everyone else on the team earned their spot. How would you feel if they did this with every position? And apparently we're worse at developing QB's than we are at finding stop gaps. Maybe the problem is finding the talent to begin with. We draft turds then spend too many years trying to polish them.

I get it. You dislike Ponder and all it took was two snaps in one preseason game to get you complaining again.

Yes based on only 2 snaps. It has nothing at all to do with the previous 26 starts I remember or how I think we're wasting AD's golden years developing a special needs QB. But if we rewind the tape, I wasn't complaining about Ponder, I was complaining about Frazier having Ponder out there for only 2 plays.

However, let's not pretend playing him another series or two last night would have made a significant difference in his development as a QB

You're right and lets stop pretending the lack of training camp in his rookie year is still affecting him in year 3. And I apologize if you're not in that camp it's just a common excuse I hear from Ponder supporters lol. But why even play 1 series? Might as well treat the 1st game like the 4th.

do you really believe they're not doing the best they can?

No, that's the problem, I believe Ponder IS doing the best he can and unfortunately for us it's been mostly crap. He rode the coat tails of PH and AD last year and he got way more credit than he deserves. We would have went 10-6 with any bottom feeder QB last year. AD was that special. And don't throw potential at me because Jamarcus Russell and Ryan Leaf both had a ton of potential. Everyone ever drafted has potential.