Texans @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Preseason #1

[PacificNorseWest]

Rofl, that's good stuff. But be careful, your whole post is fighting words around here. Also Shartvarious Jokeson 1.0 was a surprising 8/9 for 128yds and 2 TD's the other day. He's a late bloomer. In fact I had to double check to make sure it wasn't a different T.Jackson xD. I didn't know he was back with Seattle.

Late bloomer indeed. My boy Tarvaris looked phenomenal the other night. No lie.

[The Breeze]

The point is to evaluate those second and third stringers. Cassel is new to the team and system so they probably want to get him plenty of reps this preseason. They may need him to play during the season. MBT and Vandenberg are competing for the #3 job and they obviously want to evaluate them.

There are questions about Ponder but as far as the Vikings themselves are concerned, they are set at starter going into this season. They've committed to Ponder. He'll get more reps in the second and third preseason games and he's getting starter's reps in practice. Another series or two against Houston last night wasn't going to make or break his season and keeping the starting QB in the first preseason game typically means keeping other starters in too. Maybe they didn't want to do that.

Also, if the main objective is to see how your second tier linemen handle a first unit D-line, it makes little sense to stand the starting QB behind them in a meaningless game. And as for who the starting QB is, Ponder is not a huge question mark. Any questions about Ponder will be answered when the season starts. It's not rocket surgery...brah~

[Reignman]

Clearly Frazier sees Ponder differently from some of you. I also expected Ponder back out there after the first series was cut short by a poorly executed slant, but some of you are acting like there's a battle at QB. Frazier has made it clear that there is not.

Ha, well whether Frazier and co openly admit it or not, there is a QB battle going on.

My main concern from last night was our O-line. They had a hard time with the Texans' #1 D-line (w/o their superstar). Cassel had little to no time to get his throws off. He looked like Ponder last year---flustered. He did make some nice throws though when he had time. CP84 looked better than I'd anticipated, and it was interesting to see him used in a more traditional way (not bubble screens and such). That may change once the regular season starts, but for now he looks solid working different parts of the field.

Can't argue there. We especially couldn't handle the blitz. Well except that undrafted guy Randle, he picked up a nice blitz late. However I don't think Cassel looked like Ponder did last year, despite the lack of time, Cassel managed to throw for 212 yards in just 1 half, which was more yards than Ponder had in 9 full games last year. But I too was happy not to see too many short passes or bubble screens. Maybe we're saving that winning formula for the regular season? It was nice to see them throw past the sticks on 3rd n long.

The point is to evaluate those second and third stringers. Cassel is new to the team and system so they probably want to get him plenty of reps this preseason. They may need him to play during the season. MBT and Vandenberg are competing for the #3 job and they obviously want to evaluate them.

Well I didn't expect Ponder to play the entire game, but a series or 2 would have been nice. He needs all the reps he can get. You can't tell me they're content and done evaluating Ponder already.

There are questions about Ponder but as far as the Vikings themselves are concerned, they are set at starter going into this season. They've committed to Ponder.

Well of course that's what they're going to say lol. Do you think they're committed to Ponder the way the Packers are committed to Rodgers?

[Just Me]

Late bloomer indeed. My boy Tarvaris looked phenomenal the other night. No lie.

Two questions:

1) Was he playing against the first team? (A lot of QBs can look good against scrubs who are struggling to make the opposing team's squad); and
2) Do you remember how TJ used to play in pre-season for us? (He looked good in the pre-season many times. Then that pesky "regular-season" came around and was he looking good then? Not so much....)

I also remember him going 11/17 167 yards with 4 TDs and no INTs in a regular season game once. "ONCE!" (Joe Piscopo voice in Jonny Dangerously)

[headless_norseman]

How do we have the best running back of his decade and a bottom 5 quarterback?

If we had even a top 10 or 15 quarterback we could win a Super Bowl but we're just gonna
piss away the finest RB of his generation with Shartvarious Jokeson 2.0

Imagine this team with Andy Dalton or Carson Palmer.

I'm not saying imagine the team if we were starting Tom Brady. I'm just saying, imagine if we just
started the very definition of 15th quarterback in the league.

Ban yourself - you're an idiot.

[Reignman]

Any questions about Ponder will be answered when the season starts. It's not rocket surgery...brah~

Got it. You waste regular season games trying to develop the most important position on the team. Who am I to argue with the organization known for cranking out top notch QB's ... oh wait. On 2nd thought, maybe the next guy we bring in to run things should be a rocket surgeon.

Hey guys, we don't know if the main part is going to work for us yet but the heck with it, rather than finding out, lets move on and try all the backup parts, just in case he doesn't. Yep, makes perfect sense

[Mothman]

Interesting that the game in which most teams will give lots of reps to starters,we will be playing the Niners. That should be a real good litmus test.

Indeed. The Vikings couldn't ask for a much tougher opposing defense than that to play against.

[Reignman]

Ban yourself - you're an idiot.

I fail to see the part of his message that's idiotic. Rather than insulting someone how bout you provide a counter argument? Besides, isn't it against the rules to insult?

[Eli]

How do we have the best running back of his decade and a bottom 5 quarterback?

Happens all the time in the NFL. There's absolutely no correlation between the two.

We see great offenses with awful defenses and the other way around. Every season. We see great quarterbacks with lousy receivers. Great running backs with horrible offensive lines. Great pass rushers in front of terrible defensive backs. Great linebackers behind useless defensive lines.

[Reignman]

Two questions:

1) Was he playing against the first team? (A lot of QBs can look good against scrubs who are struggling to make the opposing team's squad); and
2) Do you remember how TJ used to play in pre-season for us? (He looked good in the pre-season many times. Then that pesky "regular-season" came around and was he looking good then? Not so much....)

I also remember him going 11/17 167 yards with 4 TDs and no INTs in a regular season game once. "ONCE!" (Joe Piscopo voice in Jonny Dangerously)

I think your questions are directed at PacificNorseWest, but to clarify, I'm not now nor ever was a TJack supporter. I was just blown away by the stat line especially since the last I heard he was on the Bills practice squad.

[Just Me]

I think your questions are directed at PacificNorseWest, but to clarify, I'm not now nor ever was a TJack supporter. I was just blown away by the stat line especially since the last I heard he was on the Bills practice squad.

You are correct - I was replying to PacificNorseWest. (The 'late bloomer' comment I don't think is accurate. A 'never bloomer' is more accurate IMO). I was only pointing out that he has performed well in the pre-season pretty regularly (IIRC) and even had an occasional good game during the regular season, but he was inconsistent and seemed to always underperform when the pressure was on. Ponder is/was inconsistent so far (and I'll admit that has me concerned) but he has shown he can perform when the game is on the line, something I've never seen from TJ. I like TJ as a person (he has a great attitude and works hard) so I hope he proves me wrong, but I'm not convinced. YMMV

[Mothman]

Ha, well whether Frazier and co openly admit it or not, there is a QB battle going on.

Why? Because you and Adam Schefter want to see one?

The only QB battle going on is Ponder vs. Ponder. The Vikings have invested a first round pick and the better part of two seasons into developing him. The job is his to lose and if he loses it, he'll lose it in the regular season, not during a preseason competition with Cassel. Right or wrong, misguided or wise, the Vikes think Ponder can be their QB of the present and future. Cassel is a backup plan if things go wrong and they'll have to go wrong for him to become the starter.

Well I didn't expect Ponder to play the entire game, but a series or 2 would have been nice. He needs all the reps he can get. You can't tell me they're content and done evaluating Ponder already.

I'm pretty sure I didn't.

The way the Vikes are approaching Ponder's playing time in the preseason is basically standard operating procedure in the NFL. Starting QBs see minimal action in the first preseason game, more in the second, as much as 2-3 quarters in the third and usually a series or no action at all in the fourth and final game.

Got it. You waste regular season games trying to develop the most important position on the team. Who am I to argue with the organization known for cranking out top notch QB's ... oh wait. On 2nd thought, maybe the next guy we bring in to run things should be a rocket surgeon.

Hey guys, we don't know if the main part is going to work for us yet but the heck with it, rather than finding out, lets move on and try all the backup parts, just in case he doesn't. Yep, makes perfect sense

Preseason performance wouldn't resolve the question of whether or not "the main part is going to work". It never does. A QB has to sink or swim in the regular season.

[Eli]

I'm a little surprised that they didn't try to get Ponder more quality work with a mostly new bunch of receivers. If there's a single priority in this preseason and upcoming season, that's at its core.

[The Breeze]

Got it. You waste regular season games trying to develop the most important position on the team. Who am I to argue with the organization known for cranking out top notch QB's ... oh wait. On 2nd thought, maybe the next guy we bring in to run things should be a rocket surgeon.

Hey guys, we don't know if the main part is going to work for us yet but the heck with it, rather than finding out, lets move on and try all the backup parts, just in case he doesn't. Yep, makes perfect sense

Yes, it's obvious you are confused....but it's not because you are dumb it's because of your blind butthurt over Ponder.

How would playing Ponder in week 1 of pre-season with seond and third tier guys do anything for him developing his true game. It might be a great way to get him hurt....maybe that's what you want? Near as I can tell you think Cassel is the answer. Yeah he threw for 212. 56 of which came on the legs and moves of Burton and 61 all YAC by Line. Neither pass travelled further than 15 yds. All came against Texan non-starters I believe.

They are focusing on developing the passing game which is proven by GJ, CP84 and the resigning\restructuring of JC, as well as bringing in Cassel....it all helps Ponder.

Ponder played well enough in his first full season to get them into the playoffs and a +7 in games won vs the previous year. Sure AD and Walsh had huge seasons, but Ponder did a lot of good things...in. his. first. full. season. as. starter. This is only his second training camp because of the lockout. His development is what it is whether you can acknowledge it or not....but he has been named the starter and it's highly doubtful that anything that happens in the preseason, barring injury, will change that. So, you will just have to wait for his epic regular season failure before you get what you want.

Until then let the buthurt flow freely my son~

[Eli]

How would playing Ponder in week 1 of pre-season with seond and third tier guys do anything for him developing his true game.

Huh? How would getting Christian Ponder more practice in a game situation with his new receivers help? Having Matt Cassell throw to Cordarrelle Patterson might help Patterson, but it does very little for Ponder.

I doubt very much that the Texans were playing their 2nd string defenders after two plays.