Chris Cook article

[NextQuestion]

This is where I wish Winfield was still here

[Mothman]

This is where I wish Winfield was still here

That's why they have a DB coach. Plus, the head coach is a former DB and the defensive coordinator has tons of experiences coaching cornerbacks. Rhodes should have all the guidance he needs.

[King James]

I like Cook but I dont think Rhodes should go to Cook for tips. For one, I think Rhodes will end up being a better CB than Cook, two, Cook is not at that level where he can mentor younger rookies when he is still learning himself. I hope Cook has a breakout season, it's always some injury that keeps him off the field though.

[PurpleKoolaid]

That's why they have a DB coach. Plus, the head coach is a former DB and the defensive coordinator has tons of experiences coaching cornerbacks. Rhodes should have all the guidance he needs.

A DB coach that isn't teaching our DBs very well at getting some INTs. Wonder how long hes been our DB coach cause we were kind of the laughing stock of the NFL when it came to INTs.

[King James]

Agreed! Coach Joe Woods sucks. Worst DB coach ever in my opinion. Correct me if im wrong but ever since he became our DB coach our secondary has been suspect at best. The only reason why our secondary has improved because we were lucky to draft players with natural talent rather than just learning for their skill coach.

I've been calling for Joe Woods to be fired for years now. He was here during Mike Tice's final season as our coach and was hear during the Childress Era. And with all the coaches who were firing around that time, Joe Woods somehow keeps his job.....smh Amazing.

[Mothman]

Agreed! Coach Joe Woods sucks. Worst DB coach ever in my opinion. Correct me if im wrong but ever since he became our DB coach our secondary has been suspect at best. The only reason why our secondary has improved because we were lucky to draft players with natural talent rather than just learning for their skill coach.

As opposed to all those successful DBs around the league without natural talent?

What a surprise... the secondary improved with an infusion of higher quality talent!

[losperros]

I think Cook still has some growing up to do, quite honestly. He's done nothing to suggest he can consistently "handle" anything. He's been inconsistent both on and off the field, and if I were him I would be hesitant to hold myself out as any reference for what to do or not do as a pro.

Cook's potential is still high, however, and hopefully in a contract year the guy will come out and show he can play to that potential and stay on the field. Until then, if I'm Xavier Rhodes I'd look elsewhere for guidance.

If I was Xavier Rhodes, I'd be making more money than I do now...but that's another story.

Anyway, I agree that Cook has some maturing to do but he's played against all the NFC North teams and I think he can give Rhodes some pointers. Rhodes should listen to any NFL veteran DB that has some insight about the opponents. I assume that he's smart enough to decide what will help him and what won't.

If Cook can live up to his potential and finally remain healthy, he and Rhodes will be two big, talented and fast CBs out there. If the Vikings play more aggressive coverage, as some have suggested, maybe we'll see more INTs too.

[radar55]

I like Cook but I dont think Rhodes should go to Cook for tips. For one, I think Rhodes will end up being a better CB than Cook, two, Cook is not at that level where he can mentor younger rookies when he is still learning himself. I hope Cook has a breakout season, it's always some injury that keeps him off the field though.

Its either an injury or a jail cell, take your pick but either way........until he gets his own game in order (on and off the field) he is the last person on the team that should be offering guidance to ANYONE.

[PurpleKoolaid]

As opposed to all those successful DBs around the league without natural talent?

What a surprise... the secondary improved with an infusion of higher quality talent!

So, coaches mean nothing it simply the raw talent of a player?

[King James]

As opposed to all those successful DBs around the league without natural talent?

What a surprise... the secondary improved with an infusion of higher quality talent!

I like your sarcasm but I stand by what I say. You can tell me this secondary has gotten better with coaching alone. Look how many DBs we have went through over the past few years. The only one who managed to stick around for a while was Winfield. And he came out of college as one of the highly touted CBs in his draft class. Not because our DB coach helped him improve.

The with our current DB coach, the only way we will have a good secondary is if we get good players like Winfield, Cook, Rhodes, and Smith. I dont think our staff has the ability to take a 6th or 7th round DB with potential and turn him into a star. Most of these guys we have already have these traits. Thats why we will be forever stuck in this tampa 2 defense. Coach Woods doesn't know how to teach the guys to play the ball. He just teaches them to make the open tackle once the WR catches the ball. Luckily Spielman has drafted some guys lately who have a knack for playing the ball rather than the man and waiting to make the tackle.

[Mothman]

I like your sarcasm but I stand by what I say. You can tell me this secondary has gotten better with coaching alone. Look how many DBs we have went through over the past few years. The only one who managed to stick around for a while was Winfield. And he came out of college as one of the highly touted CBs in his draft class. Not because our DB coach helped him improve.

I don't think any secondary gets better by coaching alone. The best secondary players are usually those with talent. Higher draft picks don't always pan out for any team but if you look around the league, most of the best DBs were drafted earlier rather than later.

The with our current DB coach, the only way we will have a good secondary is if we get good players like Winfield, Cook, Rhodes, and Smith. I dont think our staff has the ability to take a 6th or 7th round DB with potential and turn him into a star.

I don't know if they do or not but it's rare that any staff turns a late round DB into a star. That said, I certainly don't think the Vikes have done a bad job with Sanford. He's no star but he's developed into a pretty good player.

Most of these guys we have already have these traits. Thats why we will be forever stuck in this tampa 2 defense. Coach Woods doesn't know how to teach the guys to play the ball. He just teaches them to make the open tackle once the WR catches the ball.

You may be right but I don't see how you or I could possibly know that. What, specifically, is there to suggest that Hill doesn't know what he's doing? I'm not arguing that the results aren't there in terms of turnovers but why is that Hill's fault? Why should he only get blame for the less talented players not making plays and no credit for more talented players making them? Shouldn't Harrison Smith's position coach get some credit for helping him make a such a great transition to the NFL in his first season? I don't think it's fair to judge a coach exclusively on what he does with late round picks when he's coaching the whole DB unit.

[dead_poet]

[The only one who managed to stick around for a while was Winfield. And he came out of college as one of the highly touted CBs in his draft class. Not because our DB coach helped him improve.

The with our current DB coach, the only way we will have a good secondary is if we get good players like Winfield, Cook, Rhodes, and Smith. I dont think our staff has the ability to take a 6th or 7th round DB with potential and turn him into a star. Most of these guys we have already have these traits. Thats why we will be forever stuck in this tampa 2 defense. Coach Woods doesn't know how to teach the guys to play the ball. He just teaches them to make the open tackle once the WR catches the ball. Luckily Spielman has drafted some guys lately who have a knack for playing the ball rather than the man and waiting to make the tackle.

Name me a DB in the NFL that has risen from a 6th or 7th round pick to be a star thanks to coaching.

It's a futile exercise. The effect of coaching is hard to see and most stars are drafted early. But I'll give him at least partial credit for Cedric Griffen's improvement (before the injury). I was NOT a Griffen fan when he was a starter, but he steadily improved and prior to the injury he became much more of an asset than liability.

I refuse to believe any NFL DB coach focuses solely on open-field tackling, neglecting other aspects of the position. And we're not "stuck in the Tampa-2" because our DB coach "doesn't teach guys how to play the ball."

Woods' name has been brought up in regards to a defensive coordinator positions in 2011 and 2012. He interviewed for the Eagles' DC position in February 2011. I doubt if he's so inept that he's getting these types of opportunities. From what i've read he's well respected in league circles.

For what it's worth, here's a statement from Winfield on Woods that should help put this issue to rest.

I still have a lot of skill, but the knowledge has elevated so much since I've been here. (Vikings defensive backfield coach) Joe Woods has done a great job with us. He's taught me the game. Since he came in (in 2006), my game has taken off.

http://www.twincities.com/vikings/ci_21 ... experience

[Mothman]

Name me a DB in the NFL that has risen from a 6th or 7th round pick to be a star thanks to coaching.

It's a futile exercise. The effect of coaching is hard to see and most stars are drafted early. But I'll give him at least partial credit for Cedric Griffen's improvement (before the injury). I was NOT a Griffen fan when he was a starter, but he steadily improved and prior to the injury he became much more of an asset than liability.

I refuse to believe any NFL DB coach focuses solely on open-field tackling, neglecting other aspects of the position. And we're not "stuck in the Tampa-2" because our DB coach "doesn't teach guys how to play the ball."

Woods' name has been brought up in regards to a defensive coordinator positions in 2011 and 2012. He interviewed for the Eagles' DC position in February 2011. I doubt if he's so inept that he's getting these types of opportunities. From what i've read he's well respected in league circles.

For what it's worth, here's a statement from Winfield on Woods that should help put this issue to rest.
http://www.twincities.com/vikings/ci_21 ... experience

Thanks for that. You put together a much more articulate response than I did (I really need to stop posting 5 minutes after waking up!).

[PurpleKoolaid]

Why do we even draft past round 3 or 4 then? Not a very valid argument. Ask Tom Brady. IMO, a good coach can advance a player then has a limited amount of talent and skill. Any hallway decent coach can coach a Luck.

[dead_poet]

Why do we even draft past round 3 or 4 then?

Really?

Fine, I guess I'll answer that. Because you need starters and role players and part-time players and depth. And just because the percentage of players that turn into stars (or productive starters) drafted after the first three or four rounds is lower doesn't mean they don't exist. Medical/maturity/development issues drop them all the time. It's like playing the lottery. You can't win if you don't play.

IMO, a good coach can advance a player then has a limited amount of talent and skill. Any hallway decent coach can coach a Luck.

And how do you measure that? How much do you attribute to a coach vs. independent player growth/familiarity with the system/maturity? Yes, "any decent coach can coach a Luck" but just look at Winfield's quote. I think that speaks volumes about the issue. And if Woods can do that for Winfield, perhaps he's not an awful coach? Maybe the talent he has to work with is less than a guy like Winfield and no amount of all-star coaching will turn them into solid starters or superstars.

Great coaching is an advantage and can likely speed a player's development, provided they are receptive, dedicated and have room to grow. But it's not a magic bullet and cannot overcome talent deficiencies. You haven't seen, for example, a guy like Tyrell Johnson go and light it up under someone else's coaching.