Angry about Kyle Rudolph's performance in the Pro Bowl

[Eli]

What a ridiculous post. Two teams played catch for four quarters.

[Purple bruise]

Maybe I was watching a different Pro Bowl. I thought that Eli had a relatively poor game and I thought that Rudoph made some very good catches that were not thrown particularly well. As Eli pointed out this was four quarters of 2 teams "playing catch", or so it seemed.
Rudolph was/is Ponder's favorite target since Harvin went down and he threw to him often enough to get him into the Pro Bowl, not quite sure how you would criticize Ponder

[marty264]

Rudolph isn't going to get 100 yard games running 5 yard routes either.

The only thing cutting Carlson does is give us a roster spot. I think it actually increases our cap number for this year to release him. After next season he can be released at no cost.

[PurpleMustReign]

Is this thread for real? We're angry about a Pro-Bowl performance?

[Just Me]

Is this thread for real? We're angry about a Pro-Bowl performance?

I get what the OP is saying:

How can a TE who is good, but perhaps not great (Rudolph - alternate Pro Bowl Selection) be the Pro Bowl MVP? Implied (or explicitly stated) is the wondering how much better Rudolph could play week-in and week-out with a Pro-Bowl QB throwing to him. The answer is:

All receivers would play better with a Pro-Bowl QB throwing to them

This is always tough to gauge. On one hand, its true that with Ponder at QB we would consider Rudolph a valuable target, but I doubt he would be the most valuable receiver (he probably has to take a second seat to Harvin) let alone player. So that seems to suggest our QB might be "holding him back." On the other hand, it is the Pro Bowl so it's not going to have the same intensity/realism as a 'real NFL' game either.

It's like the who Rosenfels at QB situation again. Sage had the highest passer rating of all of our QBs in the pre-season, yet he was cut. That has to be put into context by acknowledging he was throwing mostly against 2nd-3rd sting defenses during his play.

Yes (I didn't see it, but I'm assuming it's true since he was the MVP) he turned in a great game. Is it an indictment of our current QB's ability, or confirmation that we suspect most of the players 'mail it in' on defense in order to minimize the chance for injury?

[smoothoperator]

its the pro bowl! did you even watch the game!? the cornerbacks weren't even covering players.

some of you are so ridiculous. rudolph had 9 tds, 11th in the league, even amongst wrs...the reason he didnt get the ball so much at the end of the year was because he was being double covered and keyed in on, but yea, its ponders fault...jeesh some of you are delusional.

[mansquatch]

It is not an apples to apples comparison. And it was obvious watching the game that this thread would show up on the board...

For one thing, he was in single coverage on just about every down. For another, the other guys on the field were all the top WR in the NFL, meaning the best coverage players were on them and Rudy was covered by a LB, even if said LB was a probowl players, it is still miss match.

Defenses are stuck in a 4-3 alignment on every down. (no Nickel or dime package) Also they cannot blitz. Offenses cannot motion to create coverage mismatches. This all favors the TE since he is most often the players to get the coverage mismatch.

Not dissing on Rudolph either, the guy can play. and it was awesome to see him put up that performance. Just pointing out that when the Vikes line him up, he isn't surrounded by probowl caliber WR.

The one thing I did notice is that they can use him lined up on the outside, which the coaching in the Probowl did. Musgrave, take notes please. No reason that guy can't be running fades to the corner of the endzone. If anything this lent some credibility to the argument that Rudolphh can be the Viking's possession WR.

[Mothman]

It is not an apples to apples comparison. And it was obvious watching the game that this thread would show up on the board...

Sadly, that's true. Even as I was feeling happy for Rudolph I knew someone would use his performance as an excuse to complain about Ponder or the Vikings...

In the Pro Bowl, the rules are different and the level of effort is different. It's just not comparable to a regular or post-season game.

The one thing I did notice is that they can use him lined up on the outside, which the coaching in the Probowl did. Musgrave, take notes please. No reason that guy can't be running fades to the corner of the endzone. If anything this lent some credibility to the argument that Rudolphh can be the Viking's possession WR.

In what sense? In other words, do you mean that literally? He has a great catch radius and he's a big target who can move the chains but he's a TE in build and skill set, not a WR.

For what it's worth, the Vikes lined Rudolph up outside at times last season. I don't recall if they threw any fades to him in the corner of the endzone but they had him run just about every other endzone pattern imaginable.

Anyway, I don't think the Pro Bowl should be used to lend credibility to any argument about how a player should be used. As you said, comparing that game to meaningful games isn't an apples-to-apples comparison.

[Cliff]

For all those writing off Rudolph's performance as some sort of a random lottery of "easy" passes that somehow favored the tight end position, how did Jason Witten do? How did any other TE in this game do for that matter? They didn't do dick, so don't give me this interchangable tight end argument. And the other great thing is Rudolph was targeted a lot after the first couple catches, which showed all the QB's had confidence and knew what Kyle was capable of and were looking for him a lot. And if I'm not mistaken, McCarthy put him back in the 2nd half as well. This was a game of big boys, and our Viking showed he IS one of the big boys and that we have a special talent.

You don't think it might also be more difficult to cover the TE position when the other receivers on the team are;

Calvin Johnson, Brandon Marshall, Julio Jones, Victor Cruz, Larry Fitzgerald, and Vincent Jackson? It's a little bit possible that Rudolph saw a bit less coverage in the Pro Bowl than in a normal Vikings game.

I'm not saying Rudolph doesn't deserve any credit ... I just don't think you can draw very good comparisons to what he does on the Vikings against what he did at the Pro Bowl.

[NextQuestion]

Yes. Rudolph burned LBs all day long. Good job...in the PRO BOWL

[mansquatch]

For all those writing off Rudolph's performance as some sort of a random lottery of "easy" passes that somehow favored the tight end position, how did Jason Witten do? How did any other TE in this game do for that matter? They didn't do dick, so don't give me this interchangable tight end argument. And the other great thing is Rudolph was targeted a lot after the first couple catches, which showed all the QB's had confidence and knew what Kyle was capable of and were looking for him a lot. And if I'm not mistaken, McCarthy put him back in the 2nd half as well. This was a game of big boys, and our Viking showed he IS one of the big boys and that we have a special talent.

I don't think folks are dismissing his performance. They (I) are dismissing the use of the performance as a lever to complain about Ponder.

[mansquatch]

In what sense? In other words, do you mean that literally? He has a great catch radius and he's a big target who can move the chains but he's a TE in build and skill set, not a WR.

For what it's worth, the Vikes lined Rudolph up outside at times last season. I don't recall if they threw any fades to him in the corner of the endzone but they had him run just about every other endzone pattern imaginable.

Anyway, I don't think the Pro Bowl should be used to lend credibility to any argument about how a player should be used. As you said, comparing that game to meaningful games isn't an apples-to-apples comparison.

In the sense that he can obviously make the sure handed grab. You aren't going to use him to burn up the field, but that is what a "possession" guy does. A possession guy, IMO, gets open and makes the grab. I get wanting a guy who can do that, plus burn up the field and that is fine. But in the mean time we have a guy who can the "possession" things.

Keep in mind the whole point of the modern NFL TE is that he uses his body and size to create mis-matches and get the ball. That is different than a WR who might be more about creating separation via route running and speeds. Obviously there is some cross over depending on talent and body size.

[Mothman]

In the sense that he can obviously make the sure handed grab. You aren't going to use him to burn up the field, but that is what a "possession" guy does. A possession guy, IMO, gets open and makes the grab. I get wanting a guy who can do that, plus burn up the field and that is fine. But in the mean time we have a guy who can the "possession" things.

Keep in mind the whole point of the modern NFL TE is that he uses his body and size to create mis-matches and get the ball. That is different than a WR who might be more about creating separation via route running and speeds. Obviously there is some cross over depending on talent and body size.

I apologize, I should have asked my question more succinctly. I meant: are you literally suggesting a position change, that the Vikings should play Rudolph as a wide receiver rather than a TE? If not, they already use Rudolph to make "possession", move-the-chains catches from the TE position so I'm not clear on what you're saying should change, unless it's just that they should get the ball to him more often.

[Mothman]

It's the Pro Bowl. There's no reason to dig deep in his performance.

If the point is that Rudolph would put up bigger numbers with a better QB/Play Caller, well, no ####.

He'd put up better numbers with more talent around him, just like Ponder would. With "weapons" like Simpson and Jenkins on the outside, defenses could afford to pay more attention to Rudolph inside. That was especially true after Harvin was injured and every defense the Vikes played knew Rudolph was the most dangerous receiving threat remaining on offense. Wright made a few big plays but not enough to convince defenses that Rudolph wasn't their first priority in terms of pass defense.

Ponder could have been better. I'm sure Musgrave probably could have been better at times too but it's outside receiving talent and inside protection that the offense lacked most of all and that had an impact on everything.

[Cliff]

Since this post is really all about how Rudolph would be great with a "real" QB ... what would your reaction have been if Ponder was in the pro bowl (because every QB ahead of him was 'injured', for example) and he put up 300 yards and 3 TDs.

Would you suddenly say "see, all Ponder needs are some real targets and he'd be awesome"!?