Ponder: The Answer?

[purplehaze]

Want to hear a good joke? 24 picks after Check Down Charlie was Kaepernick. haahaha.

[PurpleKoolaid]

Want to hear a good joke? 24 picks after Check Down Charlie was Kaepernick. haahaha.

Cant be. Ive been told a million times there were no picks around or after Ponder that made sense. None. Zero. But yeah Kaepernick blows Rg3 away imo. Better arm and faster i think. The guys in San Fran know whats going on, they are building a long lasting SB team, like the ones Joe and Steve QBed for...and we have Ponder, Webb and MBT.....

[PurpleKoolaid]

But, Kaepernick has better guards, and a better line too. We have Kalil. We gotta draft some guards right away. To give Ponder a chance.

[soflavike]

Want to hear a good joke? 24 picks after Check Down Charlie was Kaepernick. haahaha.

Not a very funny joke. Kaepernick is a stud. Great arm, smart and can run like a madman. Steal of the draft.

[purplehaze]

Also, just a side note thread jack (although it relates to idiot viking coaches) John Fox should be fired on the spot for kneeling on the ball in OT. Just like Denny Da Knee Green. Totally asinine. What a chickenchit pu$$y. You get what you deserve.

[BGM]

And during the draft Kaepernick was belittled by just about everyone... he played at a school that is WAY outside the BCS, his game would never translate to the NFL, he was the product of a system. Yet more proof that NFL QBs are THE biggest crapshoots. Every. Single. Year.

I started out kinda hoping the Vikes would take a chance on him, but by the time the draft rolled around, all the negative press had done its insidious work, and I had new doubts about the kid. Once again shows why I am not qualified to be an NFL personnel guru.

[soflavike]

So, the Vikes beat the Niners with Alex Smith earlier in the season... do you think we would beat them with Kaepernick if we had met in the playoffs? Hmmm.... I don't think so.

For those who defend Ponder with fervor, take a good look at Kaepernick's poise, decision-making, accuracy and arm strength, plus the bonus that he is an insanely good runner as well. He hasn't needed two years to figure out the game and he looks light years better than our QB.

If that isn't enough, look at Russell Wilson tomorrow and tell me again why Ponder needs a third year to prove himself.

[PurpleKoolaid]

So, the Vikes beat the Niners with Alex Smith earlier in the season... do you think we would beat them with Kaepernick if we had met in the playoffs? Hmmm.... I don't think so.

For those who defend Ponder with fervor, take a good look at Kaepernick's poise, decision-making, accuracy and arm strength, plus the bonus that he is an insanely good runner as well. He hasn't needed two years to figure out the game and he looks light years better than our QB.

If that isn't enough, look at Russell Wilson tomorrow and tell me again why Ponder needs a third year to prove himself.

We have to hope the powers that be see the need for QB competion, for a quality backup, and for a 3rd string to groom. They havent so far, and thats what worries me about both Spielman and Fraizer. Unless they think Ponder really is all that.

And the answer to your first question is no, not a chance.

[PurpleKoolaid]

And during the draft Kaepernick was belittled by just about everyone... he played at a school that is WAY outside the BCS, his game would never translate to the NFL, he was the product of a system. Yet more proof that NFL QBs are THE biggest crapshoots. Every. Single. Year.

I started out kinda hoping the Vikes would take a chance on him, but by the time the draft rolled around, all the negative press had done its insidious work, and I had new doubts about the kid. Once again shows why I am not qualified to be an NFL personnel guru.

Tonight must have been his best game right? Hes better then RG3 i think, his body looks like it can take a beating better.

[BGM]

Tonight must have been his best game right? Hes better then RG3 i think, his body looks like it can take a beating better.

Don't know if he's better than RG3, but he sure looked great tonight. Set a record, too, I believe. And he was pretty hyped up leading up to the game. Seems to handle the pressure well. Must admit I am daydreaming about what he might have been able to do if the Vikings had drafted him. But that's a silly exercise, like crying over spilled milk.

[indianation65]

Several teams with young quarterbacks who can run and have rifle arms...at least Ponder can run fast! Good grief, who am I kidding? Oh yea, I forgot, he had no receivers to hit!

...wisdom

[Purple bruise]

You know who went 34 picks after we took Troy Walters in 2000? That's right Tom Brady.

See I got jokes too.


#1 Kaepernick woulda been a bigger reach than Ponder at #12 at the time.

#2 If we had selected some non-QB when we took Ponder, Kaepernick was gone by our 2nd round pick anyway (which we took Rudolph with).


It's not even about being a Ponder lover/hater/or in the middle, either. I just hate this 20/20 hindsight "What If," "We coulda had!" stuff. You can do that in every draft in sports history.

Had Kaepernick gone 13th or 15th or somewhere around there (and have been projected there to begin with) than ya the Vikings messed up. That's at least comparable. Right now it's just people who don't like Ponder or the FO trying to make a point/joke when there is none to be made.

I agree but what if we had taken Brady instead of...

[Reignman]

The era wasn't so different that the stats are irrelevant. If anything, Aikman's stats are indicative of a QB who was asked to be an efficient part of a well-balanced team that relied as much on it's running game as it's passing game, something the Vikes are trying to build.

It might be far enough back to call it a different era, the game has changed a lot since then, but I get your point. Having Emmitt in the backfield meant they didn't need Aikman to be Montana, but the difference is Aikman could get it done throwing if they needed him to. We don't have that luxury with Ponder. If AD goes down, our season is essentially over.

As for Eli, I was looking at his combined stats for his first two seasons since you were using Ponder's combined stat totals from his first two seasons. After a similar number of game appearances in their first two seasons (25 for Eli, 26 for Ponder) the two ended up with comparable combined stats in several areas:

Eli completed 48.2% of his passes in his first season and 52.8 in his second. Ponder's completion percentages were 54.3 and 62.1, respectively).
Eli threw for 4805 yards, 30 TDs and 26 INTs. Ponder threw for a very similar 4788 yards, 31 TDs and 25 INTs.

Again I see where you're coming from, but Eli had more of that "it" factor going on than does Ponder. I remember watching Eli play and you could tell he had the skills to be special. Maybe it was his pedigree, hell it didn't hurt being the younger brother of Peyton after all. With Ponder, he seems to be broke between the ears, in that he doesn't seem to be learning or fixing he flaws, and when you take into consideration that that was suppose to be one of his strengths, it doesn't give me a whole lot of confidence.

There are differences, of course, but it's really not much harder to look at the numbers of someone like Eli Manning or even Drew Brees (since Aikman played in the 80s and '90s) and make a claim similar to what you're saying about Ponder and Jackson. The truth is we just don't know with any certainty how good Ponder will be in 2 or 3 seasons (or even next season). He may keep improving and become a much, much better QB or he may level off and never be much better than he was in 2012. Overall, he improved in 2012 and he played his best game in the last and most meaningful game of the year. There are reasons to feel encouraged about him and as you said, some QBs hit their stride later.

Nobody said we couldn't debate about it but it would be nice if we could move beyond the simplistic (and I mean no insult by that) "he's another Tarvaris Jackson" argument.

I could throw Occams razor at you here but I won't lol. But people don't necessarily compare Ponder to Jackson just to insult Ponder or because it's a quick way to prove their point, but because he's an example of our most recent failed QB experiment. Ponder gives people a feeling of deja vu. We're having the same debates and the community is just as divided. And as it turns out, the stats are very similar as well and you can't just ignore that. But that's not the only thing I'm looking at. TJack had some poor mechanics and consistency problems he could never get fixed and I see Ponder struggling to fix his poor mechanics, and he's very inconsistent as well. And lets be honest, his deep ball is woefully inaccurate. Next to Webb, probably the most inaccurate deep ball I've seen in the pros.

And as far as improvement goes, he had 6 more starts this year than last so naturally his totals have improved across the board, but when you look at the averages, the improvements don't look that great and in some cases he regressed. TD% and average per attempt were lower this year than last. When you look at his intangibles, he's still making the same mistakes. I'll grant him the 3rd year, but if it's the same old same, I hope we have a better backup plan.

[Purple bruise]

It might be far enough back to call it a different era, the game has changed a lot since then, but I get your point. Having Emmitt in the backfield meant they didn't need Aikman to be Montana, but the difference is Aikman could get it done throwing if they needed him to. We don't have that luxury with Ponder. If AD goes down, our season is essentially over.
Again I see where you're coming from, but Eli had more of that "it" factor going on than does Ponder. I remember watching Eli play and you could tell he had the skills to be special. Maybe it was his pedigree, hell it didn't hurt being the younger brother of Peyton after all. With Ponder, he seems to be broke between the ears, in that he doesn't seem to be learning or fixing he flaws, and when you take into consideration that that was suppose to be one of his strengths, it doesn't give me a whole lot of confidence.
I could throw Occams razor at you here but I won't lol. But people don't necessarily compare Ponder to Jackson just to insult Ponder or because it's a quick way to prove their point, but because he's an example of our most recent failed QB experiment. Ponder gives people a feeling of deja vu. We're having the same debates and the community is just as divided. And as it turns out, the stats are very similar as well and you can't just ignore that. But that's not the only thing I'm looking at. TJack had some poor mechanics and consistency problems he could never get fixed and I see Ponder struggling to fix his poor mechanics, and he's very inconsistent as well. And lets be honest, his deep ball is woefully inaccurate. Next to Webb, probably the most inaccurate deep ball I've seen in the pros.

And as far as improvement goes, he had 6 more starts this year than last so naturally his totals have improved across the board, but when you look at the averages, the improvements don't look that great and in some cases he regressed. TD% and average per attempt were lower this year than last. When you look at his intangibles, he's still making the same mistakes. I'll grant him the 3rd year, but if it's the same old same, I hope we have a better backup plan.

So you discount his improvement in the last four games and his 120 QB rating to beat the Packers in the last game with 3tds and no ints.

[Reignman]

He did enough the last four weeks to earn the undisputed 2013 starter role. There were still noticeable mistakes in his mechanics even in that time frame so he should be under close scrutiny. At this point, it matters not where they drafted him, just whether he can lead an NFL team to playoff success. I expect a new #2 QB, an improvement at WR, hope for the return of Percy Harvin, and a better Viking offense in 2013. If Ponder cannot support this improvement, they should look elsewhere and they will.

I disagree with your opening statement, but agree with the rest of your post.

Out of the final 4 games, the only one that can even be considered above average was the final game vs the Packers. The other 3 were pathetic by NFL standards. He did have a good 1st half vs Houston, but regressed to his old self in the 2nd half.

CHI - 91 yards 0 TD 1 INT
STL - 131 yards 0 TD 0 INT
HOU - 174 yards 1 TD 0 INT
GB - 234 yards 3 TD 0 INT

I hardly call that 4 good games. I call it 1 decent game and 3 games where everyone ignored Ponders performance because we won.