Assessing the Roster

[Mothman]

This is the only one where we're not in agreement. I think the CBs still look pretty bad for next year, barring unforeseen improvement from Cook and Robinson. Winfield can't keep up this level of play and the Vikings ideally already wanted to play him in the slot and limit his snaps this season. The same has to be true for next season. Cook hasn't developed as much as I had hoped (perhaps I had too high of expectations), part of the problem being he's not being used as much to jam (which is his strength) and playing off so much so often that he's simply not as effective as I believe he could be. That aside, he's just been "a guy" to me this season. Perhaps I should cut him some slack being out for so long with the injury (another obvious concern), but I'm starting to question his ceiling and if he truly has #1 CB talent. Provided he can stay healthy/out of trouble next season, it will be a pretty significant season for him, playing in a contract year.

I like A.J. Jeffereson, just not in a starting role. At all. From what I've seen, he's a capable backup (probably more capable than we've had in the last few years) but he should not be starting for us next season. His ball skills are a liability and his tackling ability is mediocre at best. Here are a few of his recent stats:

vs. Rams: Allowed six catches for 80 yards in nine targets with an interference call.

vs. GB (week 17): Allowed six completions for 67 yards and a touchdown in seven targets, taking a 16-yard pass interference penalty. He also was called for interference on fourth-and-1 against WR Jarrett Boykin, who caught Rodgers' back-shoulder throw anyway.

vs. Bears (Nov. 27): Gave up four completions for 46 yards to Marshall, who stiff-armed Jefferson to finish another play, and took a personal foul for fighting WR Eric Weems.

I mentioned this in another thread, but Josh Robinson has flashed some ability, so I suppose I'm hoping for him to take over the other spot outside Cook. Really, it's because I know what we have in Jefferson, Sherels (yuck) and lack of any other quality options. My hope here is that he can improve and be a legit starter but that's yet to be seen. As such, I still think we need to spend either top (rounds 1-3) selection on a CB and/or bring in a proven guy (Brent Grimes, Sean Smith, DRC). In our division with Rodgers/his stupid stable of receivers, Marshall/Cutler, and Stafford/Calvin our CBs are overmatched even at full health.

So when you say "they don't look bad at all" I have to respectfully disagree given the WRs/QBs they play against the most. Thankfully you qualified that by adding that a talent injection is necessary. Because it most certainly is.

That's why I said "not bad at all" as opposed to "set" or or something extremely positive like "great". They can clearly win with this group when healthy and it's much better than what they had in 2011 but I definitely think there's room to get better.

Honestly, my take on the roster is that there's only one position where they probably can't get a better player and that's starting RB. Peterson was historically great this season. Beyond that, as I've said before, they need impact players so if they have the opportunity to draft one in any round, at almost any position, I think they should take it. Ideally, I'd love to see them upgrade at their positions of greatest need but anything that makes them a better overall team helps.

[Mothman]

I would caution against basing analysis of the CB based mostly on the freshest memories, which are the past 2 games against GB. GB fields 4 above average pass catchers with the league's best QB on every down. That is a very different match up scenario than say the Lions or Bears. Our guys certainly need to get better when we play the Packers, but they also have to play everyone else.

Excellent point.

[NextQuestion]

simpson and winfield will be gone. we need a big physical receiver to go with harvin and wright. that should be the number 1 priority.

Winfield has one more year. Haven't heard anything about his retirement

[dead_poet]

Cook has the ability to play 1 on 1 with a team's best WR.

Debatable. it depends on who that WR is. Just because he's the best at this point at matching up against them says more to me about the state of our secondary than it does about his level of play.

Not saying he does this consistently, but he has the body and talent to do it.

He has the body and ability. He just doesn't execute consistently enough for my tastes.

I would caution against basing analysis of the CB based mostly on the freshest memories, which are the past 2 games against GB.

I'm certainly not doing that. I'm providing a comprehensive analysis from what I saw of his play this season. But perhaps this will help.

Vs. Jacksonville:

A furious rally bailed out CB Chris Cook (74 snaps), whose second failure to locate the football in deep coverage nearly proved fatal. In the second quarter, Cook never turned his head before WR Laurent Robinson caught Gabbert's perfectly placed throw over his outside shoulder for a 26-yard gain. That surely gave Gabbert confidence to make a similar throw to WR Cecil Shorts III in the final minute of regulation, and Cook looked the wrong direction as Shorts hauled in the go-ahead, 39-yard touchdown. Getting a reroute would help cover for Cook's lacking speed in those situations, but it's impossible when playing a bailout technique in Cover-3. DC Alan Williams took plenty of those chances against a run-first Jaguars offense, rolling into a single-safety look on roughly half of Jacksonville's snaps. Playing mostly right cornerback in the base defense and left corner in nickel, Cook had his coverage targeted 13 times and allowed only four receptions for 79 yards. Gabbert tried the outside shoulder one more time on the game's final play, but his pass for Robinson was overthrown. Cook was credited for three pass breakups, although a couple looked like plain drops. He cleaned up Guion's pressure for a sack in 3.0 seconds on his only blitz. He got stiff-armed and dragged by 5 yards by Shorts to convert an early third down. He departed briefly with a bruised left arm

Vs. Washington:

Time and again, Griffin faked a shotgun handoff and found a receiver wide open underneath the Vikings' soft coverage. Eventually, they adjusted and had CB Chris Cook (58 snaps) press at the line -- but not before he'd given up completions of 15, 16, 14 and 17 yards, all on in-breaking routes. That'll happen all day if play-action sucks up the linebackers and the corners aren't getting reroutes. From a press technique, Cook drew an offensive pass interference penalty against Davis and broke up a slant. That's what he's built for. He was solid in run support, too, although getting vision sooner might have allowed him to contain Griffin's long touchdown. That's tough when he's staring down WR Joshua Morgan in man coverage at the snap.

Vs. Arizona (a good game)

He (Winfield) also defended a third-down slant for Fitzgerald, who beat CB Chris Cook (68) in press-man on another third-down route but otherwise was frustrated by Cook's jams. Fitzgerald's inability to get off the line for the corner route Skelton threw on third-and-5 late should be a reminder of what Cook can do in that technique. He's at his best when he can put his hands on people. Cook dropped out twice, the latter after he returned an interception on a free play after one of the offsides calls.

Vs. SF

CB Chris Cook (58) lined up over Moss on 16 of 20 snaps (80%) and clearly was under orders to give him whatever he wanted underneath. The result for Moss: three catches in six targets for 27 yards, none longer than 12. Press coverage would have been a safe play, too, but Moss looks so finished it probably didn't matter. Smith threw at Cook eight times and completed five for 32 yards, including a 1-yard touchdown to Davis that Cook lost right off the line. He just looked a little off all day.e off all day.

Vs. Detroit(another decent game)

CB Chris Cook (78) would have been kicking himself for letting an interception go through his hands. The Vikings kept dropping Cook into a deep third as an extra safety in longer passing situations, but he held up fine covering off the line, too -- smothering WR Titus Young in man coverage on third-and-5 and carrying Burleson deep on a "go" ball late. Officials could have kept the clock running after Cook knocked Pettigrew backwards out of bounds in the final seconds, but it was borderline.

Vs. Houston

The Vikings were cautious with the workload on CB Chris Cook (39 snaps) in his first game back from a broken arm -- but not about letting him go against the Texans' best weapon. Schaub targeted Andre Johnson three times against Cook's coverage and connected twice for 33 yards. The other was a stutter-go route Johnson won, only for Schaub's pass to graze his fingertips. Cook missed a tackle but otherwise was fine in run support. Having him back probably made Williams more confident mixing in some man calls on first down, too.

vs. Tennessee

Robinson is conceding a lot underneath and receivers know they can outmuscle his jam, but he's not giving up the big play. Neither is CB Chris Cook (68), who allowed five completions for 40 yards in nine targets, mostly late. The way he drove to break up a curl to Washington was encouraging. It's still odd how rarely he presses at the line, though. The personal foul for yanking Hasselbeck off a pile would have been less defensible had the quarterback not dived in well after the whistle. Robinson's hard, clean takedown in the flat probably ended HB Javon Ringer's season. He and Winfield had seven tackles each. Cook's run support seems to be improving, too.

Vs. GB (Saturday)

Antoine Winfield and Chris Cook, two of Minnesota’s top three corners, allowed 100% of the balls thrown at them to be caught. They combined to allow 9 catches for 115 yards. Cook (66) couldn't tackle Jennings at the sticks on fourth-and-5, yielding a 32-yard gain

My analysis

He's maybe above average but inconsistent. He doesn't seem to do much particularly well, doesn't make "splash" plays and create turnovers and for much of the season isn't being played to his strengths (according to Pelissero anyway). I don't hate him and I think he's okay (we're much better with him than without him) I was simply hoping/expecting more from him this season. He's still young and with the number of injuries and off-the-field incidents he really hasn't played much (22 out of 48 possible games, effectively less than a season-and-a-half). Hopefully he improves, because we need him. After Winfield retires, we'll need him more than ever.

[dead_poet]

Thought this was appropriate here.

Kevin Williams - DL - Vikings

Vikings DT Kevin Williams would like to play 2-3 more years.

There have been conflicting reports on the option in Williams' contract for 2013-14, but it looks like he will not reach free agency. The Vikes may ask him to restructure, however. The 32-year-old finished as Pro Football Focus' 10th-rated defensive tackle in 2012.
Source: Tom Pelissero on Twitter

[dead_poet]

Chase Ford - TE - Vikings

Vikings signed TE Chase Ford, RB Joe Banyard, OT Kevin Murphy, TE LaMark Brown, DT Chase Baker, S Bobby Felder, WR Chris Summers, OG Tyler Holmes to reserve/future contracts.

Ford is a 2012 undrafted free agent out of Miami. Baker played college ball at Boise State. Otherwise, this is an unremarkable list of future signings for the Vikings. All of the above will try to last until 2013 training camp.

[Mothman]

Chase Ford - TE - Vikings

Vikings signed TE Chase Ford, RB Joe Banyard, OT Kevin Murphy, TE LaMark Brown, DT Chase Baker, S Bobby Felder, WR Chris Summers, OG Tyler Holmes to reserve/future contracts.

Ford is a 2012 undrafted free agent out of Miami. Baker played college ball at Boise State. Otherwise, this is an unremarkable list of future signings for the Vikings. All of the above will try to last until 2013 training camp.

Thanks for the info!

[CbusVikesFan]

The 2013 draft is settting up to be a slew of Defensive guys going in the 1st round. This is where we should go as well. ANY defensive player at ANY position would bode well for the Vikings. Whatever pick the Vikings have, should be able to find a starter there. I think the back 7 on defense needs to be addressed first. I don't think it would hurt if the first two picks would be for the back 7. Of course there may be a player just too good to pass on.

[Eli]

Free agents:

How is it that Loadholt's contract wasn't extended prior to his becoming a UFA? There have always been reservations about him, but he's been a starter at RT since the day he entered the league and the Vikings certainly don't have anyone waiting in the wings to take his place. They can't afford to lose him.

Felton has stated that he really wants to remain a Viking. That's a good thing, but his Pro Bowl starting spot has probably put him on a lot of radars. If I were his agent, I'd ignore my client's wishes, at least temporarily, and see what other teams are willing to pay before coming back to Minnesota to negotiate. He could get pricey for a guy who touched the ball just three time the entire season.

Geoff Schwartz and Joe Berger represent the first line of backups in the middle of the offensive line. Schwartz played well at RT in that whatever-it-was rotation they were doing with Fusco. I don't think they want to lose him, and they certainly can't afford to lose both players.

The FA linebackers are also problematic. Neither Henderson nor Brinkley played well this year, but the Vikings have zero alternatives on the roster to plug in as starters. Marvin Mitchell is next on the depth charts, and he too is a UFA. All the rest, except possibly Audie Cole, are perennial special teamers and will never be anything more. I see some more one year contracts being offered to this bunch, but the Vikings need to find some real help at LB.

Sanford is another guy that the Vikings just have no choice but to sign. He's not that good, but the guys behind him are worse and not ready to step up.

[mansquatch]

Dead Poet: I agree that Cook is inconsistent, but his ability on the team is unique. If they can find someone better, I'd say go for it, but all 32 teams are looking for Mr. Stuff. Also on the turnovers, one thing I've noticed with our defense is that the impetus seems to be more on tackling by the CB than on getting the big pick. The safety spot seems to be where the picks will come from in the Cover 2. Of course I'd love to see more picks, but I think poor tackling hurt us more this season than lack of picks. They've got to drop guys and not let them get YAC. (Which really hurt us against GB.)

Sanford stepped up huge this season, I'd be shocked if they do not sign him.

I think their view on Loadholt was that he hadn't proved his value. He has always been an off again/ on again guy. Davidson has even talked about some of the challenges is coaching Loadholt and how they (Coaches) need to do a better job of reaching him. I think this season Loadholt got better, so they'll probably offer him a contract.

They are going to have to pony up to pay Felton, but I think they will do it without reservation. Felton's blocking style is very unique and complimentary to AP. It's been talked about in the media so I would be shocked if the FO doesn't also know this. The positive is that nobody pays obscene $$$ for a FB.

LB is dismal. I suspect we'll see draft picks, but there are a few FA guys available. Just not sure if they are good 4-3 LB vs. 3-4 LB.

[dead_poet]

Dead Poet: I agree that Cook is inconsistent, but his ability on the team is unique.

There's not much unique about him (yet). He's taller than most of our corners. That's where it ends for me. His tackling isn't unique, neither is his ball skills or speed. He also commits stupid penalties. But outside of Winfield, he's the best we have. That's my issue. I don't think "best out of what we have" is good enough given our position and need.

If they can find someone better, I'd say go for it, but all 32 teams are looking for Mr. Stuff. Also on the turnovers, one thing I've noticed with our defense is that the impetus seems to be more on tackling by the CB than on getting the big pick.

Again, I'm not looking for Revis (although I'd take a player of his ability). But there's a level between Revis and Cook that I'm shooting for. Perhaps my expectations are too high.

Tackling is indeed an important aspect, but defended passes are a responsibility as well, an area I see Cook (and the rest of our crop) aren't performing near well enough in. A corner in any scheme is instructed to attempt to prevent a successful pass play, independent of an interception.

The safety spot seems to be where the picks will come from in the Cover 2.

That's a possibility, but one of the premises of the Cover-2 is to prevent anything deep, which limits the opportunities the safeties have of actually making interceptions.

Of course I'd love to see more picks, but I think poor tackling hurt us more this season than lack of picks. They've got to drop guys and not let them get YAC. (Which really hurt us against GB.)

Note that interception numbers aren't the only thing I'm basing my evaluation/expectation of Cook (and others). Successful defended plays (either by deflections or blanket coverage) are my main area of critique and have been for at least five years. Cook isn't a big problem. The biggest problem is the guy on the other side (especially as Winfield's performance continues to decline and he eventually retires). However we need Cook to step up his level of play if we're going to be successful in the secondary, especially given the division we're in.

The Vikings did a very good job at preventing YAC this season (I think I saw a stat where they were in the top-10, or top-5 in that category).

[mansquatch]

Before his injury Cook had a monstrous Pass Defensed number. I would argue that Cook's biggest issue at this point is his current inability to play a full 16 game season.

Every team needs more CB, the Vikings are no different. However, I think we'll see them go looking in other areas to give the team a boost this offseason. (I do think they'll go for a mid to late round guy at this position.) I would argue their needs at LB are much greater than the secondary, especially Mike.

[HardcoreVikesFan]

Personally, I believe our linebackers are our weakest link on the team.

Erin Henderson regressed this year. I thought he played well last year, but this year he looked hesitant to blow up his gap and his coverage abilities really took a hit.

Jasper Brinkley was awful. Outside of a few solids hits, his coverage was abysmal and he was out of position quite a few times. I would not be hurt if the team chose not to resign him.

Chad Greenway was the most frustrating LB to watch out of the group. He blew coverage many times. He missed easy tackles when he blew up his gap. I really like Chad but that big investment we put into him is not paying dividends right now.

Honestly, we need two new starters at LB and at least one solid back up linebacker. I really hope linebacker is Minnesota's first priority in the offseason.

[dead_poet]

Before his injury Cook had a monstrous Pass Defensed number.

Ah yes. I sometimes forget how big of a number 5 is.

I would argue that Cook's biggest issue at this point is his current inability to play a full 16 game season.

That's certainly part of it.

Every team needs more CB, the Vikings are no different.

The Vikings are different in that given the state of their roster a declining, 5'9" 35 year-old Winfield is their best corner in a division stacked with premiere QBs and WRs. Every team might need more CBs (which is debatable), but I'd say the Vikings could make the case at having a higher degree of need.

I would argue their needs at LB are much greater than the secondary, especially Mike.

I'd agree with you there.

Our CBs just make me nervous/sad, especially when Winfield is either out or injured. Cook hasn't risen his play enough to make me comfortable that he can be a top corner, or one that can be a consistent asset. Sherels has no business playing corner, Jefferson shouldn't be starting. The only one I have hope for is Robinson. He has flashed, but the jury is still out on him.

We can differ on Cook. I hope he improves over the offseason and becomes a top-10 corner. I really do. I just haven't seen that ability/production from him when he's on the field to make me as confident as some.

[mansquatch]

Well regardless of our difference of opinion, I would be very suprised if he is replaced in 2013. The guy who I think is fodder is Scherels. Jefferson is OK as a back up, needs time to develop. I sure wish Asher Allen hadn't retired, he was finally turning the corner late last year.

I think the WR situation is much more interesting right now. I'm not 100% sold that they'll make that many moves. I agree they need to make changes, but I think people are taking it way too much for granted that they'll just up and sign some big name or high draft pick. The numbers in terms of personnel seem to point in another direction, especially with the "youth" bias currently being expressed by the GM.

That being said, Paul Allen commented on something I've been casually noticing and that is the fact that it seems like Greg Jennings wants to play here. Could be nothing, but who knows?