Stadium thread

[shannontw]

I dont know if Arden Hills is the best site or not. But I dont think they should build on a particular site just because it could get built faster, thats pretty short-sighted, which, Bagley and Co appear to be. I read somewhere the infrastructure in Arden Hills would need a lot of work, where at the Dome site, its pretty well set. Not being familiar with Arden Hills, I have no idea which is better, but its pretty disheartening that the Vikings still arent set on a particular site. IF they ever choose a site, I hope the speed in which the stadium can be built on said site, has nothing to do with actual site selection.

But playing 3 years at a college stadium? you would lose 54 million dollars.The Vikings is already NFL team with the Lowest revenue. Man I think Vikings need to go with Arden Hills. BTW The Metrodome is Snake bitten. LMAO.

[thatguy]

Bagley is beyond worthless. He reminds me of that moron the Twins hired a few years back to help with the Stadium push (I can't think of his name).

You mean the guy that eventually helped them to get the stadium?

[thatguy]

I would be interested to find out how much tax revenue is generated by the Target Center. And how much tax revenue would be generated by a new Vikings stadium. I think these numbers could be key points. If you're alluding to economic expansion in the area that is connected directly to the presence of the Target Center, you're talking about a number that's difficult to pin down.

Well, for every 1 dollar that was used to pay for the Target Center, 16 dollars has been returned. 16:1 return on your investment is excellent. The source (which is official) says the Target Center was built for about 7.3 million dollars with the total tax return at about 120 million dollars at this point (it also notes that the number doesn't include the bars, restaurants, hotels, etc. in the area that benefit and also pay taxes).

I'm not pushing for a TC renovation at this point because the Vikes issue is FAR more important, but it just goes to show you just how much on your return you can get eventually if you do it right.

http://www.targetcenterrenovation.org/faqs.php

[BGM]

Well, for every 1 dollar that was used to pay for the Target Center, 16 dollars has been returned. 16:1 return on your investment is excellent. The source (which is official) says the Target Center was built for about 7.3 million dollars with the total tax return at about 120 million dollars at this point (it also notes that the number doesn't include the bars, restaurants, hotels, etc. in the area that benefit and also pay taxes).

I'm not pushing for a TC renovation at this point because the Vikes issue is FAR more important, but it just goes to show you just how much on your return you can get eventually if you do it right.

http://www.targetcenterrenovation.org/faqs.php

Thanks for posting that link. However, it's a site put together by the main group pushing for renovation of the TC and has no links to any off-site numbers. I tend to be skeptical of numbers posted with no reference.

If it is, in fact, true that the TC has a 16:1 return in tax revenue, and that a new Vikings stadium would also give a similar return, then THAT is where the Vikings need to focus their marketing efforts.

[BGM]

IMO, I think the Vikings should choose the Arden Hills site. Because Building the stadium on that site would be faster than building on the Metrodome site. I would just extend the lease on the metrodome until the new staidum is fixed. That way you wont be losing money by playing TCF bank stadium.

But that guy who said vikings are wieghing there options is a dummy. Arden Hills basically giving you a great site. Supporting you damn near 100% and he still BSing. Come on.

there are many questions that need to be answered before the Arden Hills site can be seriously touted as an option. There needs to be an environmental assessment of the property, infrastructure plans, an environmental impact study... and that's just the beginning. The Vikings are WAY behind schedule, IMO.

[PurpleMustReign]

You mean the guy that eventually helped them to get the stadium?

No no... there ws one guy they hired that was supposed to help and he did just as much as BAgley.

[thatguy]

No no... there ws one guy they hired that was supposed to help and he did just as much as BAgley.

Ohhh yeah. That guy who just retired, I think. Yeah, he was there threatening a move/contraction or something...I think I know who you're talking about.

[CalVike]

The Vikings had a local partner in Anoka County that was putting forward $275M in public money in support of the stadium. The Vikings messed that partnership up by listening to the big shots in Minneapolis who insisted Minneapolis was a better location, the same City who has a $10M cap on public subsidies for a stadium, not much of a dent in the $700-$900M stadium budget. The Vikings are jealous of the Twins who got Hennepin County to support their stadium through the brilliant and persistent, long term efforts of Jerry Bell, after early embarrassments by the Twins. The Vikings have never learned this lesson, that it takes a master like Bell and not a moron like Bagley to move a stadium project forward.

This is where I see it. It will take foresight by the state legislature and a strong commitment of public money by the state on the order of the Anoka County past pledge of $275M to get this even started as a talker. With the Republican legislature and moods of Republicans across the country to cut spending at all cost, there is no way this happens in 2010.

The Vikings will entertain all bidders to move to Los Angeles very soon. Ironically, municipalities and the State of California are even more reluctant than Minnesotans to commit any public funding toward a stadium. But their private funding avenues are stronger though there is no certainty they can make the economics work either. There is no sense of urgency on the public commitment this will take.

Intellectually, all parties know it is a huge corporate subsidy to billionaires with arguable benefits to the local community. Still, it will be nice if Minnesota makes it happen. Most citizens of Minnesota seem very happy with Target Field now that it is in place. If not, I hope they let the team go away and never invite the NFL back. That is a viable option given the dollar figures they are asking from the public IMHO.

[thatguy]

The Vikings had a local partner in Anoka County that was putting forward $275M in public money in support of the stadium. The Vikings messed that partnership up by listening to the big shots in Minneapolis who insisted Minneapolis was a better location, the same City who has a $10M cap on public subsidies for a stadium, not much of a dent in the $700-$900M stadium budget. The Vikings are jealous of the Twins who got Hennepin County to support their stadium through the brilliant and persistent, long term efforts of Jerry Bell, after early embarrassments by the Twins. The Vikings have never learned this lesson, that it takes a master like Bell and not a moron like Bagley to move a stadium project forward.

To be fair, they were in talks with Anoka County back when they still had some "wiggle" room to make mistakes, and while I wish they HAD gotten something done, I can't blame them for trying to stick in Minneapolis...that's where the money is at. Now that we're at zero-hour, I don't care where they build a stadium...just as long as it's in Minnesota.

[Cliff]

Listen, I want the Vikings to stay, and I would love to see them build a new stadium. However, I do have a problem with utilizing public funding for what amounts to a private business venture at a time when basic Human Services and Education funding in Minnesota are facing deep and, in some cases, debilitating cuts. I fear I am venturing dangerously close to crossing the fine line between stadium issues and politics, so I better leave my position statement right there...

I don't live in the state, so the tax revenues seen there don't mean nearly as much to me. However, I feel like that view is kind of short sighted. If the Vikings leave as a result of not getting a stadium how many more cuts will need to be made down the road when that tax revenue is no longer coming in?

It seems like a tough decision to make; take a hit to some of those programs in the short run while the new stadium pays for itself or save money in the short term and possibly lose even more than what the Vikings are asking for in the deal over the next decade.

I don't know which solution is the right one, certainly it depends on how profitable the Vikings being there really is ... but I feel like allowing the Vikings to leave Minnesota would be bad for the state down the road.

It's really a practice in finding the lesser of two evils it seems.

[mondry]

I don't live in the state, so the tax revenues seen there don't mean nearly as much to me. However, I feel like that view is kind of short sighted. If the Vikings leave as a result of not getting a stadium how many more cuts will need to be made down the road when that tax revenue is no longer coming in?

It seems like a tough decision to make; take a hit to some of those programs in the short run while the new stadium pays for itself or save money in the short term and possibly lose even more than what the Vikings are asking for in the deal over the next decade.

I don't know which solution is the right one, certainly it depends on how profitable the Vikings being there really is ... but I feel like allowing the Vikings to leave Minnesota would be bad for the state down the road.

It's really a practice in finding the lesser of two evils it seems.

I agree Cliff, but I'm also a firm believer that things like this need to be done as soon as possible. For example, had they built the stadium 4-5 years ago, they could have saved a couple hundred million for basically the same stadium from where we are today. The problem then is inflation, things will be more expensive tomorrow than they are today which is why simple budget cuts that really only lower state deficits by 0.01% are relatively useless.

Right now the Vikings rank 30th in team value and 29th in revenue (http://www.forbes.com/lists/2010/30/foo ... _Rank.html)

But are we really the 3rd smallest market in the nfl? No, obviously not, but the entire problem lies within the Metrodome's out dated design and inefficiency to hold more luxury boxes. With a new stadium the Vikings would likely go from the current 221 million revenue to some where in the 250 range. You might say, "well good for the Vikings" but do realize that's 30 million more taxable dollars for the state as well. Right now, to me any way, it feels like they aren't maximizing the potential out of having a football team so it makes sense to do that. Create some jobs, get more taxable income, maximize the potential of an NFL team in your state. When it comes down to it, an NFL team is actually one of THE SAFEST investments you can make.

The problem is, we can't just compare 250 million to 221 million, we have to compare 250 million taxable dollars for the state, to ZERO when the team leaves. That doesn't even take into account any of the taxable income bars / restaurants make on game day, or people buying beer / chips / pizza's for their game day parties, the TV revenue.

I guess my main problem is that I don't see how the state becomes financially stronger by letting the Vikings leave. Nor do I see it wise to put off building a stadium into the future when inflation will always make it more expensive later. If someone can convince me that those 2 things are false, I will gladly change my opinion on the stadium / vikings.

[PurpleMustReign]

I have a question:

Why haven't any of the plans or ideas like License Plates and Lottery Tickets been used to raise some money? I know it wouldn't pay for the stadium, but I would think they could raise a decent portion of the public money for it, right?

[TrenchGoon]

The Vikings had a local partner in Anoka County that was putting forward $275M in public money in support of the stadium. The Vikings messed that partnership up by listening to the big shots in Minneapolis who insisted Minneapolis was a better location, the same City who has a $10M cap on public subsidies for a stadium, not much of a dent in the $700-$900M stadium budget. The Vikings are jealous of the Twins who got Hennepin County to support their stadium through the brilliant and persistent, long term efforts of Jerry Bell, after early embarrassments by the Twins. The Vikings have never learned this lesson, that it takes a master like Bell and not a moron like Bagley to move a stadium project forward.

This is where I see it. It will take foresight by the state legislature and a strong commitment of public money by the state on the order of the Anoka County past pledge of $275M to get this even started as a talker. With the Republican legislature and moods of Republicans across the country to cut spending at all cost, there is no way this happens in 2010.

The Vikings will entertain all bidders to move to Los Angeles very soon. Ironically, municipalities and the State of California are even more reluctant than Minnesotans to commit any public funding toward a stadium. But their private funding avenues are stronger though there is no certainty they can make the economics work either. There is no sense of urgency on the public commitment this will take.

Intellectually, all parties know it is a huge corporate subsidy to billionaires with arguable benefits to the local community. Still, it will be nice if Minnesota makes it happen. Most citizens of Minnesota seem very happy with Target Field now that it is in place. If not, I hope they let the team go away and never invite the NFL back. That is a viable option given the dollar figures they are asking from the public IMHO.

i agree, well said. they aren't going to get a stadium done this year and I expect they will be moving shortly.

[Hamburglar]

City of Minneapolis has stadium talks with Minnesota Vikings

http://www.twincities.com/ci_17447047?nclick_check=1

Talks over a new Minnesota Vikings stadium on the site of the Metrodome in Minneapolis are back on.

Mayor R.T. Rybak met with team brass Friday to discuss the team's future as it seeks a plan for a new home, according to both the team and the city.

[Hamburglar]

I have a question:

Why haven't any of the plans or ideas like License Plates and Lottery Tickets been used to raise some money? I know it wouldn't pay for the stadium, but I would think they could raise a decent portion of the public money for it, right?

I think something like the viking scratch game that pulled in 12 million will end up being a "money raiser". But I don't think anything will come out until the Stadium bill is officially proposed or until it's passed.

Bagley said something about that in a podcast I listened to.