Raptorman wrote: Still harping on how Wilson is not an elite QB. Let's address some things that you talk about. Starting with how Wilson rode and all time great defense to the Super Bowl.
Opponents points and yards during Super Bowl winning season. For the heck of it, let's toss in the Packers 1996 Super Bowl season.
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Points PPG Yards YPG
Seattle 2013 231 14.4 4378 273.6
Packers 2010 240 15.0 4945 309.0
Packers 1996 210 13.1 4156 259.8
Wow, look at those team defensive numbers. Wilson just a QB riding on his defense to the Super Bowl. As well as Rodgers, and Favre and Brady in 2003(14.9 ppg), 2004(16.2 ppg) and in 2014 (19.6 ppg)
Now lets take a look at how much better Rodgers and Brady were than Wilson in his first 61 games.
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Att Cmp Perc. Yards YPA TD's TD% Int INT% Games W/L
Wilson 1058 1636 64.7 13,239 8.1 98 6.0 33 2.0 44-17
Rodgers 1325 2025 65.4 16,754 8.3 126 6.2 37 1.8 40-21
Brady 1215 1975 61.5 13,647 6.9 95 4.8 51 2.6 47-14
Yup, once again, Rodgers and Brady are miles ahead of Wilson. Of course Wilson has that top defense helping with his passing stats. Well we won't mention that in Brady's first 4 years the Patriots defense was 6, 17, 2, and 4 in scoring. Nothing here to indicate Wilson being a top tier QB in the NFL. I will mention that when the Packer won the SB in 2010 their offensive scoring rank was 10. When the Patriots won it last year, their offensive scoring rank was 4th. When the Seahawks won in 2013, their offensive scoring rank was 8th. Imagine that, the 2013 Seahawks scored more points, 417 than the 2010 Packers 388. But it was all on the Seattle defense. Now of course the argument will be that the Seattle defense scored in 2013. And they did. 3 td's on interceptions and one on a fumble recovery. But then in 2010, the Packers defense scored as well. 3 interceptions returns and 1 fumble return for td's. And for heck of it, Patriots in 2014, 2 blocked field goals and 2 fumbles returned of td's. But that Seattle defense.........
I know lets go to playoff passing. After all Rodgers is second only to Starr. But let's stay to the first three years of their careers.
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Att Cmp Perc. Yards YPA TD's TD% Int INT% Games W/L
Wilson 123 202 60.9 1,820 9.0 12 5.9 6 3.0 6-2
Rodgers 117 184 67.8 1,517 8.7 13 7.5 3 1.7 4-1
Brady 135 223 60.5 1,364 6.1 6 2.7 3 1.3 6-0
Rodgers does do better here. Except for the fact that in his first three years the Packers only made the playoffs twice. But then, the Seahawks have that kick butt defense. And of Course Brady is miles ahead of Wilson here. But then the Patriots only went to the playoffs twice in Brady's first 3 years. Why? Because the defense was 17th in points given up in his second year as a starter.
Of course Wilson is just a game manager riding his defense to the playoffs. These numbers don't include week 15 of the 2015 season. Wilson threw 3 more TD's in that game. Becoming the First NFL QB to throw at least 3 TD's in 5 games in a row. Brady never did it. Favre never did it. Rodgers never did. But damn that Seattle defense helping him throw those TD's. He's good. But no where near elite. Just an overpaid average QB.
Ok stop putting words in my mouth first of all.
Yes those ppg averages are comparable, but there are a lot of factors to play into that, and while I agree that 96 D should be up there (That entire team was loaded) the Seahawks D is remembered as one of the greatest of all time for a reason, and the Packers 2010 D really can't compare. The 8 ranked Seattle Offense was spearheaded by a fantastic rushing game, one of which Rodgers/Brady have never had, leading to a 20-7 TD INT ratio for Wilson, and sub 3500 yards.
Now for the first 61 games you posted, yes those are nice stats indeed, and he compares favorably to Tom Brady at least, but really, what is this proving aside from it took Brady a little while to reach elite level of play? I agree Brady was on loaded teams in NE for the brunt of his SB runs, Brady also wasn't the player he is today, or has been, during that time as well. (Which is still pretty good, just like Wilson)
Playoffs, you kind of say it yourself there, Rodgers only made it to the playoffs twice his first 3 years, his first year he was marred by a bottom 10 D, bottom 10 O line, and non existant running game, all things that Wilson has seldom had to deal with his career, on the contrary he has had quite the opposite up until this year. (And while first 61 games Aaron Rodgers would momentarily see a breif renaissance of the his teams Defensive rankings for two years, his O line and running game would remain much in similar condition., and yet the statline reads as it does)
It seems like you are misunderstanding my view on Wilson, I never said that he was 'average' nor that he did not possess the potential to be elite one day, only that he isn't elite, and going on every year of his career prior to this one, he isn't, though he is doing a decent enough job rewriting his typical level of on field production as of late, but I never claimed he wasn't.
You seem to like contextual stats, but there is no better way to make my point than pointing at his career statistics, do they look elite to you? What season of his would you consider to this point to be elite? You point to Brady's career statistics throughout his first 61 games but seem to act as if Brady's career trajectory began with him being arguably one of the best ever, which statistically isn't true. Brady became to Elite HOF player he is, just as Wilson could.
When you never throw for 4000+ yards, or 30 TDs, you are going to have a hard time convincing people that your numbers to that point are 'elite', especially when you have everything a QB could want, Top D, top RB. Now yes, Wilson is both A. Very young, and B. Already doing his best to elevate himself into this category as of this season (Which Is neither here nor there in ths specific discussion as I never once suggested or implied he wasn't on track to do so. Important to note.)
