Vikings Message Board.Com

Just so you guys know, I am a biased Ponder supporter, my screen name will probably tell you why. I saw some posts yesterday questioning his toughness and I wanted to tell you some of what I saw him do while at FSU.

His Junior season, he broke 2 ribs vs NC State and still played the next week vs Clemson. It was a horrible performance, he was in major pain, and ended up separating his shoulder and being lost for the year that game. His senior year, against OU, he was hit on the elbow and for about 6 straight weeks, had to have fluid drained off the elbow before every game. He may not be the best QB to ever play, he looks like he is getting better (was surprised but happy to see him go as high in the draft as he did), but the last thing you should question is his toughness. He played through some major injuries in college so when I saw on Saturday that he was out, I thought it must be pretty bad.

from what paul allen said, ponders elbow was disgusting and 3-4 times larger than his left elbow. there was absolutely no chance he could throw a ball, no qb would have been able to play with his injury.

Ponder's elbow: https://twitter.com/SGrossStrib/status/ ... 60/photo/1

I don't hold it against Ponder that he didn't start. He's a pro - he knows what he needs to be able to do to compete and he obviously couldn't do it or he would have been out there.

Watching RGIII yesterday is reason enough to be thankful Ponder didn't start and a reminder that playing injured isn't smart. There are guys who can tough through some things, but a QB needs a healthy throwing arm like a running back (or a running QB) needs a healthy knee.

I think we can put this issue to rest:

It wasn't just a bruise. The triceps muscle had shut down to the point Ponder couldn't even lob a soccer ball during a session with the Vikings' athletic trainers the day after the injury.

The elbow area was so swollen there was a belief from people who saw the arm Ponder had a recurrence of the bursitis that plagued him during his senior year at Florida State.

In reality, there was no fluid to drain. Ponder simply had no strength in the triceps and knew after an abbreviated pregame workout he still couldn't throw the football.

http://www.1500espn.com/sportswire/Peli ... play010713

dead_poet wrote:I think we can put this issue to rest:
http://www.1500espn.com/sportswire/Peli ... play010713

Pfft. Rub some Robitussin on it and get out there and play.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0206636/quotes?qt=qt0248807

joenolesbest wrote:Just so you guys know, I am a biased Ponder supporter, my screen name will probably tell you why. I saw some posts yesterday questioning his toughness and I wanted to tell you some of what I saw him do while at FSU.

His Junior season, he broke 2 ribs vs NC State and still played the next week vs Clemson. It was a horrible performance, he was in major pain, and ended up separating his shoulder and being lost for the year that game. His senior year, against OU, he was hit on the elbow and for about 6 straight weeks, had to have fluid drained off the elbow before every game. He may not be the best QB to ever play, he looks like he is getting better (was surprised but happy to see him go as high in the draft as he did), but the last thing you should question is his toughness. He played through some major injuries in college so when I saw on Saturday that he was out, I thought it must be pretty bad.

Thank you for that information. Unfortunately you will find a few posters and their ilk saying everything and anything that they can about how bad Ponder is. He is a midget (6-2 230 lbs.) he has a noodle arm (Jarius Wrigfht and fans that know football realize how ridiculous that statement is) even making negative comments about his marriage Anyway, his last four must win games should have shown most doubters the atheletic QB and leader that they have in him. His 120 QB rating and 3 tds. and no ints. spoke volumns playing in a clutch game that decided them getting into the play-offs. Every one could see how much a difference it made in the offense when he went down (I am not saying that Webb is any kind of back-up QB at all). Yeah he is a wimp alright

It was never a question of toughness, but one of functionality. Weird how this is raised in the football world after everyone - but his own coach - see RG III buckle before our eyes, but was allowed to keep playing until it was too late.

headless_norseman wrote:It was never a question of toughness, but one of functionality. Weird how this is raised in the football world after everyone - but his own coach - see RG III buckle before our eyes, but was allowed to keep playing until it was too late.

And probably allowed to keep playing when he should have been taken off the field. I have no problem with Ponder not playing.

80 PurplePride 84 wrote: He may be down for at least half of next year now. Reportedly tore his ACL and PCL on top of the torn LCL he was already playing with.

I blame Shanahan and the doctors. You have to over rule him and take him out, I don't care what he wants. I wouldn't want to come out either unless I couldn't walk.

RGIII had a torn LCL and Shanahan had him play? He should be fired!!! That's one of the dumbest moves a coach could have ever made.

Wow.

PurpleMustReign wrote: RGIII had a torn LCL and Shanahan had him play? He should be fired!!! That's one of the dumbest moves a coach could have ever made.

Wow.

Dr. James Andrews, who treated both RGIII and AD, did not clear the former to play after his injury. He played anyway. This is the result. Totally irresponsible, given their backup was more than capable (and painful after watching Webb last night).

Dr. James Andrews wrote:(Griffin) didn't even let us look at him," Andrews said. "He came off the field, walked through the sidelines, circled back through the players and took off back to the field. It wasn't our opinion.

We didn't even get to touch him or talk to him. Scared the hell out of me.

Also, there's this.

As pointed out by a Pro Football Talk commentator, then Broncos coach Shanahan told Terrell Davis he should keep playing through migraine headaches in Super Bowl XXXII even though the running back couldn't see. "Just do this, you don't worry about seeing on this play because we're going to fake it to you," Shanahan said. "But if you're not in there they're not going to believe that we're going to run." Strategy trumps safety. And when the team wins, everybody's happy. On the NFL website, the send-the-blind-player-on-the-field maneuver is celebrated as an "MVP moment."

No words for this.

[quote="DCman11"]

Interesting... Sounds like Shanahan is a bit of a ####.

Wow.

I have a feeling this could end up being one of the biggest scandals to hit the NFL in a long time, once we know the details. And I hope the son of a bytch loses his job over it.

Shanahan has a history of this. There is the Terrell Davis incident, the hiding of RGIII's concussion, the false information he put out about Jake Plummer's "concussion" (it was really a separated shoulder, but he lied to gain a competitive advantage). He has no regard for his players' health, in spite of what he may say to the press. If Dr. Andrews said he never cleared RGIII to return to the game against the Ravens, then I believe him over an egomaniac like Mike Shanahan.

And let's call it like we see it. As Plummer said, Shanahan "isn't the special coach we thought he was." Proof? He now has exactly one playoff win with any quarterback not named John Elway.

VikingLord wrote:I don't hold it against Ponder that he didn't start. He's a pro - he knows what he needs to be able to do to compete and he obviously couldn't do it or he would have been out there.

Watching RGIII yesterday is reason enough to be thankful Ponder didn't start and a reminder that playing injured isn't smart. There are guys who can tough through some things, but a QB needs a healthy throwing arm like a running back (or a running QB) needs a healthy knee.

Well said. My thoughts exactly. We all wish Webb could have played better but Ponder couldn't even put his jacket on by himself, let alone throw the ball. It would have been crazy for him to go out there in that condition.

S197 wrote:Pfft. Rub some Robitussin on it and get out there and play.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0206636/quotes?qt=qt0248807

ROFL good stuff. I thought of Chris Rock immediately. Let that 'tussin get down to the bone

Here's the whole bit on youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wd-EBG3a7jU

This is how I see it, they had all week but waited until 2 hours before kickoff to decide. That doesn't sound like a severe injury to me. If it was that iffy it tells me he could have sacked up and at least given it a go. Maybe adrenaline would've been enough to get him through, or how bout a pain killing injection? If they had named Webb the starter on Monday then that would have been a different story. Sure you could argue they postponed the announcement to gain a slight advantage, but that's not how it played out.

I'd like to hear some medical opinions or see some precedent. Have other QB's missed meaningful games with a similar injury? As far as I know the decision was all up to Ponder and him just telling us he was too sore to play is not good enough and that's why people are questioning his toughness. And no, the pictures don't look that bad to me. All I see is some bruising. Maybe it was worse earlier but all I care about is how it was at game time. Did you see what Favre played through in '09? IMO he should have suited up and made an effort regardless. At the very least he would have gained some respect and after a few bad throws nobody would've complained if he was taken out.

Today we'd be talking about the cojones Ponder showed instead of assembling a search party to go out and look for the ones that are missing.