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I know this was tweeted during the game yesterday and I've seen it in other places as well. Frankly, I don't know A) What Musgrave has done to lose his job B) What make Shurmur an upgrade at ALL or C) Why he's linked to the Vikings in the first place. Anybody know? His resume from what I've seen is mediocre at best.

dead_poet wrote:I know this was tweeted during the game yesterday and I've seen it in other places as well. Frankly, I don't know A) What Musgrave has done to lose his job B) What make Shurmur an upgrade at ALL or C) Why he's linked to the Vikings in the first place. Anybody know? His resume from what I've seen is mediocre at best.

No idea, but Musgrave called a great game yesterday. He has been very resourceful IMO and he's more than earned another year.

dead_poet wrote:I know this was tweeted during the game yesterday and I've seen it in other places as well. Frankly, I don't know A) What Musgrave has done to lose his job B) What make Shurmur an upgrade at ALL or C) Why he's linked to the Vikings in the first place. Anybody know? His resume from what I've seen is mediocre at best.

Jason La Canfora seems to be the source of the rumor that Musgrave will be replaced. He wrote this on the day before Christmas:

http://www.cbssports.com/columns/story/ ... o-get-boot

Vikings offensive coordinator Bill Musgrave: It's been a dream season for the Vikings, and running back Adrian Peterson, but Minnesota's offense has been tough to watch. Quarterback Christian Ponder has not made strides, and with such a powerful running game it's been shocking to see the lack of explosive plays or vertical play-action threats it should trigger. Head coach Leslie Frazier has been advised by some to find a new coordinator even if AP breaks the rushing record, and I'd be very surprised if Ponder does not have a different voice in his ear come 2013.

La Canfora is also the source of the rumor that Shurmur will replace Musgrave. Nobody else seems to be reporting it (other than repeating La Canfora's report) and I'm only finding the "news" on sites like Yardbarker.

If Musgrave is replaced, I'd have to believe it would be because Ponder and the passing game haven't developed enough this season, despite the team's success on the ground.

I really don't see how Pat Shurmer would be much of an upgrade.

However, I also don't think Musgrave called a good game yesterday. Every big run was all AP, getting stuffed up the middle then breaking outside. Musgrave apparently only thinks you should call a run play between the tackles. I think I saw 1, maybe 2 runs actually get called to the outside on purpose.

Everything else was a worthless screen pass (we have to be the worst screen team in the league, seriously they never go anywhere if the pass is even completed), or a 5 yard slant pass.

3 or 4 decent passes and AP being a beast does not mean you called a great game.

Sounds like somebody throwing spitballs and hoping they'll stick. After yesterday, Musgrave's job is safe and sound. Sometimes, the sign of a good OC is to let your players do what they do best (AD!!) and get out of their way.

lyzarde wrote:Musgrave apparently only thinks you should call a run play between the tackles. I think I saw 1, maybe 2 runs actually get called to the outside on purpose.

I don't know about that. Plus, Peterson has had great success running up the gut this season. I'd say the majority of his yards have come from plays designed to go inside the tackles.

Everything else was a worthless screen pass (we have to be the worst screen team in the league, seriously they never go anywhere if the pass is even completed)

I don't remember if we ran more than one screen yesterday (the one to Gerhart on third down that got 21 yards and a first down).

BGM wrote:Sounds like somebody throwing spitballs and hoping they'll stick. After yesterday, Musgrave's job is safe and sound. Sometimes, the sign of a good OC is to let your players do what they do best (AD!!) and get out of their way.

Well said.

lyzarde wrote:I really don't see how Pat Shurmer would be much of an upgrade.

However, I also don't think Musgrave called a good game yesterday. Every big run was all AP, getting stuffed up the middle then breaking outside. Musgrave apparently only thinks you should call a run play between the tackles. I think I saw 1, maybe 2 runs actually get called to the outside on purpose.

Running to the outside against a fast 3-4 defense isn't necessarily a good strategy. Peterson's a lot easier to bring down when he's running laterally instead of upfield. Musgrave has been calling running plays that are working so he's doing his job and It shouldn't matter if Peterson is ultimately what makes them work. After all, Musgrave knows he has Peterson running the plays and undoubtedly calls them with that in mind. He's done a great job of designing a running game that's effective even when Peterson is facing 8 or 9 defenders in the box.

Everything else was a worthless screen pass (we have to be the worst screen team in the league, seriously they never go anywhere if the pass is even completed), or a 5 yard slant pass.

That's simply not an accurate statement.

3 or 4 decent passes and AP being a beast does not mean you called a great game.

How about 37 points? Does that count for anything?

BGM wrote:Sounds like somebody throwing spitballs and hoping they'll stick. After yesterday, Musgrave's job is safe and sound. Sometimes, the sign of a good OC is to let your players do what they do best (AD!!) and get out of their way.

You're exactly right. I think one of the things that Musgrave has done is find what each skill position player can do and highlight that individual strength. That's not easy on an offense like the Vikings, which has had a mostly broken passing game for much of the season.

Mothman wrote: How about 37 points? Does that count for anything?

I guess that kind of outcome happened so many times that people got used to saying it. Like you said, it's just not accurate for last night's game.

Ponder threw 16/28 for 57%
Hit 8 different targets for 234 yards and 3 TDs
He ended the game with a 120 QBR

This team is getting it together. This is not the time to change any of the coaching staff. Ponder needs his mentor, Musgrave, and the existing playbook. The reason the Giants have been successful is because the Coughlin,Gilbride,Manning connection has remained intact. Constant change brings on frustration and chaos. Even if they go "one and done" we have many positives to look forward to in 2013. Happy New Year everybody. Patience is a true virtue not to be ignored. All I ask for is one bonifide top notch veteran wide receiver for next year. One new guy, Percy resigned , and Wright. Simpson and Jenkins can walk.

Remember that 3rd and 11 when Ponder hit a wide open Jenkins? Well Ponder was on Mike and Mike this am and said Musgrave drew that play up in the middle of the week knowing how the Packers would play it. Then Ponder said he was happy they waited to use it until the end of the game. Seems some coaching is going on.

sdranger wrote:Remember that 3rd and 11 when Ponder hit a wide open Jenkins? Well Ponder was on Mike and Mike this am and said Musgrave drew that play up in the middle of the week knowing how the Packers would play it. Then Ponder said he was happy they waited to use it until the end of the game. Seems some coaching is going on.

Cool! Good to know. Thanks for posting.

I imagine Musgrave had to shrink the font down even lower to fit that one on his recipe card this week.

lyzarde wrote:I really don't see how Pat Shurmer would be much of an upgrade.

However, I also don't think Musgrave called a good game yesterday. Every big run was all AP, getting stuffed up the middle then breaking outside. Musgrave apparently only thinks you should call a run play between the tackles. I think I saw 1, maybe 2 runs actually get called to the outside on purpose.

Everything else was a worthless screen pass (we have to be the worst screen team in the league, seriously they never go anywhere if the pass is even completed), or a 5 yard slant pass.

3 or 4 decent passes and AP being a beast does not mean you called a great game.

I am not a big Musgrave fan but he did call a pretty good game yesterday up until the 4th qtr, that is. There was the call on the pass to Felton, the screen play to Gerhart that worked for a 1st down. Then there was the deep ball that was perfect timing when called. Multiple times he called for the pass on short yardage which had success yesterday. But like you I did have a problem with the way the runs were called. Overall, I think he should at least get a cardboard cookie for his efforts yesterday.

Pelissero doesn't think it will happen. Musgrave is a tough one, I mean we've seen some really brutal offensive performances this year but at the same time the playcall to Wright late in the game was brilliant and it was gutsy going for it early on 4th down (although that is probably Frazier's call but still a well designed play). The TD pass to Wright where he motioned out of the backfield was also a nice call.

It's certainly not an explosive offense (it just has the most explosive player in the game) and granted some of that has to do with the QB/WR play but I think that's just his style. One area I hope he focuses on this offseason assuming he's still around is making his receivers run deeper routes on 3rd down, they're constantly running short of the sticks and that's been a big problem.

Mothman wrote:Running to the outside against a fast 3-4 defense isn't necessarily a good strategy.

Looked more like a 5-3 defense yesterday .

Here is a great article by Souhan about Musgrave's inept play calling, and further emphasizes why I think he should be fired. I realize Ponder's deactivation was a last minute thing, but how hard can it be to call plays to use Webb's strengths? Don't get me wrong, Webb sucked, but the first drive went well, and then again, Musgrave outcoached and outthought himself.

Souhan: Instead of force-feeding Webb's flavor to Packers, Musgrave chose vanilla

Bill Musgrave had a lousy night as Vikings offensive coordinator. Forced by Ponder's injury to play Joe Webb at quarterback against the Packers in the playoffs, Musgrave abandoned the one strategy that could have kept the game close.

Far too many times, the Vikings best player comes off the field on 3rd down situations. Far too many times, he also comes off the field in the redzone. To me, it seems like he is in over his head.