Vikings Message Board.Com

What up guys. I'm from Minneapolis, but have always been a 49er fan. I still root for the Vikings. I want them to do well. But, as far as this Sunday, you gotta bet I'm hoping for a blowout. I think it will be a close game thought. Anyways, I just wanted to share my thoughts about the matchup and maybe hear you guys' perspective.

It's hard to ignore the parallels between the Vikes and the 49ers: both teams are constructing new stadiums, both teams have struggled in recent years (sans the Brett Favre experiment and Harbaugh's arrival), both teams have to rely on unproven QBs (there are still Alex Smith haters out there), both teams have- and desperately rely on- great RBs, both teams are storied franchises.


My thoughts on the upcoming game:
1) The Vikings will see a different 49ers defense than the film they will study. In the first two games this season (and the last 2 playoff games dating back to last year), the 49ers D have been in their nickel and dime packages most of the game. Which means the 49ers usually resemble a 4-3 as Justin Smith and Ray Mcdonald play as interior linemen while the OLBs, Aldon Smith and Ahmad Brooks line up as D Ends. While the 49ers only have 2 linebackers in to make room for an additional DB (Chris Culliver-- very solid second year corner out of South Carolina), Patrick Willis and NaVarrow Bowman are gifted enough physically to stop the run. That's why offenses have struggled against the 49ers so far this season. The threat of a running game is removed, and the 49ers D can solely focus on the pass. It's hard to be successful in this league if opposing teams know what you are going to do.

This week, I am anticipating the 49ers to be in their base 3-4 D most of the game. I think this will be to the Vikings advantage. Here's why --------->

2) The Vikings need to isolate Kyle Rudolph on 49ers SS Donte Whitner. Whitner is a strong player. He hits hard and has the speed and range to cover a certain region of the filed. However, Whitner struggles in man-to-man coverage. Even in the pre-season game between these two teams, Rudolph had success against Whitner. I would utilize this matchup. Because the 49ers will be in the 3-4, Ponder and the Vikings O need to test the 49ers secondary. They (the 49ers secondary) have been used to extra DBs in recent games. Let's see how they fair without that crutch. I'm not suggesting the Vikings come out in shotgun and replicate the New Orleans Saints offense. I'm just saying the Vikings need to take advantage of one-on-one coverage, which they will undoubtedly see throughout the game.

3) The Vikings need to establish the run outside the tackles. While the 49ers are known for their stout D against the run, I think it will be paramount for the Vikings to show they are committed to running the ball-- almost like the Lions did against the 49ers on Sunday Night. The Lions, however, only tried running between the tackles, which seems foolish to me. While Brooks and Aldon are strong at setting the edge, I think toss plays and stretches are plays that can hurt the 49ers D. The 49ers are too good along the DLine to win the one-on-one battles necessary to establish a good run game between the tackles. The Vikings need to get their OLine in motion- pulling the guards- in order to create creases for AP. The Vikings don't need to make plays doing this. All they need to do is hope the 49ers make a mistake. Dashon Goldson, the FS, is very aggressive. If he over commits on a toss play, and AP is able to make a LB or two miss, he could be going the distance.

4) The Vikings need to call wham plays if and when they do run inside. If you watched the 49ers Lions game, you would know what I am talking about. A 49ers guard (Mike Iupati or Alex Boone) would let Ndamfusdhfu (terrible first name) Suh think he beat them off the snap, only to have a TE (usually Delanie Walker) blind side him. This allows the guards (Iupati or Boone) to set up blocks downfield on the linebackers while Suh is on the ground before Frank Gore even receives the handoff from Alex Smith. I think the Vikings should employ this strategy. While the 49ers do it against the Lions to hinder Suh's impact on the game, the Vikings should do it to impede the 49ers All-Pro Inside Linebackers, Willis and Bowman. Although Willis and Bowman have great range and sideline-to-sideline ability, they are not amazing at disengaging blockers-- especially large OLineman.

5) The Vikings need to ignore Moss. So far this season, Randy has been a distraction. In years past, people would assume I mean Randy is being a cancer in the locker room. Not what I'm talking about. Instead, I mean that Randy's main purpose in the offense is to attract defenses' attention. Numerous times this season, I have seen 2 or 3 defenders running with Moss, while receivers like Crabtree and Vernon Davis are matched up one-on-one. STUPID!!!! The 49ers have way better weapons than Moss (I'd prefer to see Davis, Crabtree, Manningham, and Gore with the ball). The Vikings need to have one corner with press coverage on Moss. If Alex is able to hit Randy in stride down field, so be it. The Vikings cannot let Vernon or Crabtree get open, because, at this point in their careers, they are way bigger threats with the ball in their hands than Randy.

Conclusion
I have a lot of thoughts on this game and I can't wait until Sunday. I expect a 49ers win, but not a blowout like some people are predicting. The 49ers rarely run up the score (minus the Tampa Bay Bucs game last year, but, let's face it, the Bucs' were one of the worst coach teams last season).

In regards to the Vikings franchise as a whole, I think you have to be patient. I went seven seasons without seeing a good 49ers team on the field. Looking back, I'd say those seven years were worth it. The product I, and the rest of the 49ers Faithful, are seeing on the field might reach historic levels.

Once the Vikings mend their secondary woes, they should be able to compete. Ponder has the arm, and, so far, is playing like Alex Smith last season. Another big-time receiver to line up along side Percy and Simpson will make this offense scary. It doesn't take much to become a winning team. Just good coaching and confidence. Mike Singletary tried to install confidence when he was the 49ers HC, but his teams lacked coaching. Frazier, unlike Singletary, was a well-established, respected DC in this league. So you guys (the Vikings) have the coach. They just need their players to start believing they are a good team.

mpls9erfan wrote: Frazier, unlike Singletary, was a well-established, respected DC in this league. So you guys (the Vikings) have the coach. They just need their players to start believing they are a good team.

Have you watched how Frazier's teams play on both sides of the ball since he took over? One of the worst secondaries in the history of the league last year. Almost no turnovers created on defense. Predictable, consistently bad safety play and a defense that, in order to be effective, requires players the Vikings don't have and have made no effort to draft (last two CB's they took high are both suited to press coverage, not Tampa-2 zone). Offensively, this team is so focused on "establishing the run" with AD that they literally take maybe one to two shots past 10 yards per game. That focus on the run has made them extremely easy to defense for most teams, and despite the fact that they are 1-1 this year, they have been shut down cold on offense by two very average defenses for more than a half of each game.

There are tons of excuses in Vikings land for this consistently woeful performance on offense. Some want to blame the offensive line. Some want to blame Ponder. Some others blame the lack of WR talent. I blame the offensive philosophy and the single-minded approach to "getting AD going" as if that's the only way to go. Vikes have an insane amount of cap invested in a position of minimal importance in today's NFL and by gosh, they're going to get their money's worth out of that investment if it kills them (or results in 3-win seasons, whichever comes first).

So no, I'm not sold on Frazier as the future of this team. Not by a long shot. And I fully expect that whatever the 49ers trot out there as their base defense in this upcoming game won't matter to the Vikings as the Vikings wouldn't even think about trying to throw on the 49ers early or adjust their strategy based on possible weaknesses in the 49ers scheme. No, they will line up in their power run formations and try to AD going. And they'll try. And they'll try, because everyone knows that getting AD going is what is going to open things up for Ponder to take his one or two heaves towards the sidelines after Ponder sees the 49er CBs literally taking naps pre-snap due to a lack of interest.

I really do believe that the Vikings offense will struggle to cross mid-field in this one. Maybe late after the 49ers have gotten so far ahead that Frazier and Musgrave once again have to abandon the run in order to have any chance to win. When that happens things might get a bit more interesting, although Ponder has been extremely fortunate several of his passes haven't been picked already, and I suspect his good fortune is about to run out in this game as I don't expect the 49ers to be as inept at holding on to errant throws as the Jags and Colts were.

VikingLord wrote: Have you watched how Frazier's teams play on both sides of the ball since he took over? One of the worst secondaries in the history of the league last year. Almost no turnovers created on defense. Predictable, consistently bad safety play and a defense that, in order to be effective, requires players the Vikings don't have and have made no effort to draft (last two CB's they took high are both suited to press coverage, not Tampa-2 zone). Offensively, this team is so focused on "establishing the run" with AD that they literally take maybe one to two shots past 10 yards per game. That focus on the run has made them extremely easy to defense for most teams, and despite the fact that they are 1-1 this year, they have been shut down cold on offense by two very average defenses for more than a half of each game.

There are tons of excuses in Vikings land for this consistently woeful performance on offense. Some want to blame the offensive line. Some want to blame Ponder. Some others blame the lack of WR talent. I blame the offensive philosophy and the single-minded approach to "getting AD going" as if that's the only way to go. Vikes have an insane amount of cap invested in a position of minimal importance in today's NFL and by gosh, they're going to get their money's worth out of that investment if it kills them (or results in 3-win seasons, whichever comes first).

So no, I'm not sold on Frazier as the future of this team. Not by a long shot. And I fully expect that whatever the 49ers trot out there as their base defense in this upcoming game won't matter to the Vikings as the Vikings wouldn't even think about trying to throw on the 49ers early or adjust their strategy based on possible weaknesses in the 49ers scheme. No, they will line up in their power run formations and try to AD going. And they'll try. And they'll try, because everyone knows that getting AD going is what is going to open things up for Ponder to take his one or two heaves towards the sidelines after Ponder sees the 49er CBs literally taking naps pre-snap due to a lack of interest.

I really do believe that the Vikings offense will struggle to cross mid-field in this one. Maybe late after the 49ers have gotten so far ahead that Frazier and Musgrave once again have to abandon the run in order to have any chance to win. When that happens things might get a bit more interesting, although Ponder has been extremely fortunate several of his passes haven't been picked already, and I suspect his good fortune is about to run out in this game as I don't expect the 49ers to be as inept at holding on to errant throws as the Jags and Colts were.

As negative as this is, I think it's a very accurate assessment. I, too, question Frazier's ability to coach and predict that he'll be fired after this year. The OP talks about patience, but the fact of the matter is SF improved by LEAPS AND BOUNDS once a very good coach was hired. Being patient had little to do with the 49ers success. We can see that Frazier just doesn't have "IT".

Welcome to the board, mpls9erfan and thank you for making such an insightful, intelligent first post. It's greatly appreciated!

This game will be a very bad game for viking fans. I believe this game will expose all our problems. We may have won the only game we are going to this season. i agree that we might not cross the 50 yard line unless the 49ers turn the ball over. I don't see us driving the ball on this team at all. Turnovers, and alot of 3 and outs. The Rebuilding in my mind hasn't begun yet. The Coaches, the philosophy, the schemes on offensive and defense and alot of players need to go. Right now we are in the worst shape the vikings has ever been in our history. Truly getting tired of this ultra conservative try not to lose Philosophy of this team. We are a very predictable and very boring team to watch.

mpls9erfan wrote:What up guys. I'm from Minneapolis, but have always been a 49er fan. I still root for the Vikings. I want them to do well. But, as far as this Sunday, you gotta bet I'm hoping for a blowout. I think it will be a close game thought. Anyways, I just wanted to share my thoughts about the matchup and maybe hear you guys' perspective.

Sorry, but I don't think the Vikings will blow them out. Although you never know.

Raptorman wrote: Sorry, but I don't think the Vikings will blow them out. Although you never know.

He's hoping the 49ers blow the Vikings out.

VikingLord wrote:Have you watched how Frazier's teams play on both sides of the ball since he took over? One of the worst secondaries in the history of the league last year. Almost no turnovers created on defense.

The dearth of INTs is frustrating but that doesn't mean the Vikings have forced "almost no turnovers" since Frazier took over. I've said it before and I'll say it again: their defense was tied for the league lead in fumble recoveries last season. They don't struggle to create turnovers, they struggle to create interceptions. It's a distinction worth making since the 2011 Vikes were at the top of the league in one category and at the bottom in the other.

Predictable, consistently bad safety play and a defense that, in order to be effective, requires players the Vikings don't have and have made no effort to draft (last two CB's they took high are both suited to press coverage, not Tampa-2 zone).

Maybe the Vikes don't have those players and maybe they do and they just need to develop them but I don't think it's fair or accurate to say they've made no effort to draft CBs that can be effective in a zone defense (players can be suited to play both press coverage and zone defense—the skills involved aren't mutually exclusive). Let's look at a few draft profiles:

Chris Cook

STRENGTHS: Cook has outstanding height, good bulk and terrific overall size for a defensive back. Is a durable player. Exhibits the toughness needed to be physical in press coverage and run support. Very competitive defender. Has the versatility to play as a cover-2 corner or safety. Shows good instincts when playing zone coverage. Has been productive in college.

WEAKNESSES: Cook only possesses average speed and probably isn’t suited to play on an island. Does not have the necessary lateral quickness to shadow sharp route runners at the next level and likely won’t be overly effective in man-heavy coverage schemes. Cook has outstanding height, good bulk and terrific overall size for a defensive back. Is a durable player. Exhibits the toughness needed to be physical in press coverage and run support. Very competitive defender. Has the versatility to play as a cover-2 corner or safety. Shows good instincts when playing zone coverage. Has been productive in college.

Josh Robinson

STRENGTHS: Robinson has displayed superb zone skills. Aside from length, where he is only average, he has all the traits sought after in a zone corner. Not as polished in man, but he can run with receivers in the open field and will likely run in the 4.4 range at the combine. A reliable tackler in run support.

WEAKNESSES:Robinson struggled at times playing man coverage. He will hesitate at times when diagnosing throws or trying to read his man's hips, and will guess on jumping routes which could be a risk at the next level. Struggles to make plays in run support after shedding his man, and will need to be more assertive in that area of his game.

If, by "last two CB's they took high" you mean CBs drafted higher than the R3, then we're talking about Cook and Griffin:

Cedric Griffin

Quick to read, diagnose and react to the plays in front of him … Does a good job of challenging and baiting the quarterback when playing off the man in zone coverage, showing a good forward burst to close … Has a smooth stride dropping back and gaining position in zone coverage … Has the range to close on the ball and make plays along the perimeter … Excellent down hill performer who is quick to fill the rush lanes … Uses his hands well to reroute and press receivers at the line … Also active with his hands in attempts to shed blocks and make plays in back-side pursuit … Strong tackler who will strike with authority in the open field … Better playing the ball than in man coverage due to his ability to recognize blocking schemes and not bite on fakes or play-action.

These draft profiles make it pretty clear that all 3 corners were evaluated as having the skills to play zone coverage and they specifically mention that 2 of the 3 can play press coverage (while arguably implying as much by saying Robinson has all the traits sought after in a zone corner). The effort to draft players that can succeed in their zone defense is pretty obvious.

I'm a Viking fan in the Bay Area... want to trade spots?

Raptorman wrote: Sorry, but I don't think the Vikings will blow them out. Although you never know.

Awesome!

BGM wrote: Awesome!

Told you it wouldn't be a blow out.