Vikings Message Board.Com

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As always, I root for Vikings players. But I've always been very unimpressed by Sherels. I know there are some U of M fans here that are bigger supporters and that's cool. Maybe you can tell me why I should be a bigger fan of the guy. I honestly don't know why he's still here. He's not a good corner and, in my opinion, doesn't possess enough skills to burn a roster spot on a "return specialist" when his biggest asset at the position is catching the ball cleanly.

In a perfect world, the Vikings won't need Sherels to play many snaps at cornerback. He's not a frontline NFL cornerback, but the Vikings coaching staff clearly trusts him as a returner, particularly in terms of his ability to catch the ball cleanly and not turn it over.

"I take pride in trying to catch it every time," he said.

I'd personally like to see Josh Robinson (or Jarius Wright for that matter) win the punt return job.

Regardless, if that's the decision the coaching staff made then so be it. I hope he can return a few punts for TDs and give the team solid field position.

Return a few punts for TDs?

When I see comments about him being the most sure-handed punt returner, and how it apparently trumps all other talents, I KNOW that the entire Vikings staff has already packed it in for the season. "Just don't screw it up" is not a winning stance, but like you say... so be it.

Didn't Sherels standout one year in a few preseason games that built up his supporters, but didn't really pan-out against first-stringers during the regular season?

Eli wrote:Return a few punts for TDs?

When I see comments about him being the most sure-handed punt returner, and how it apparently trumps all other talents, I KNOW that the entire Vikings staff has already packed it in for the season. "Just don't screw it up" is not a winning stance, but like you say... so be it.

That's a bit harsh. We don't know what they're seeing from Sherels' competition in practice and the coaches can't approach these decisions like they're playing fantasy football. Turnovers cost teams games and we don't have to look any further than last year's NFC Championship game to see just how steep the price can be for a team when they don't have a sure-handed punt returner. Kyle Williams' two fumbles set out up scores for the Giants, including the game-winning field goal.

I think the decision to keep him around speaks more the derth of depth in the secondary than anything else. I would rate Secondary Depth/Injuries as one of the biggest risk to our season. The last 2 years we've had starters go down and then the unit has fallen apart. Hopefully Smith/Raymond/Robinson can stick and start shoring things up, but I suspect we'll see some more mid round guys taken to shore up this group in coming drafts. Losing Asher Allen will likely rear it's head this season.

mansquatch wrote:I think the decision to keep him around speaks more the derth of depth in the secondary than anything else. I would rate Secondary Depth/Injuries as one of the biggest risk to our season. The last 2 years we've had starters go down and then the unit has fallen apart. Hopefully Smith/Raymond/Robinson can stick and start shoring things up, but I suspect we'll see some more mid round guys taken to shore up this group in coming drafts. Losing Asher Allen will likely rear it's head this season.

Hopefully Burton and Blanton can help provide good depth as well. Between Cook, Smith, Raymond, Robinson and Jefferson, the Vikings could have the makings of a good starting secondary for the future. They all have a lot to prove but there's some speed and talent there.

mansquatch wrote:I think the decision to keep him around speaks more the derth of depth in the secondary than anything else. I would rate Secondary Depth/Injuries as one of the biggest risk to our season. The last 2 years we've had starters go down and then the unit has fallen apart. Hopefully Smith/Raymond/Robinson can stick and start shoring things up, but I suspect we'll see some more mid round guys taken to shore up this group in coming drafts. Losing Asher Allen will likely rear it's head this season.

I've thought about that, too. I believe drafting for secondary help is far from over. We'll see the Vikings pick more DBs next year.

Of course, maybe this current group of DBs will really surprise us and be good. Personally, I think we'll see mixed results.

losperros wrote:
I've thought about that, too. I believe drafting for secondary help is far from over. We'll see the Vikings pick more DBs next year.

Of course, maybe this current group of DBs will really surprise us and be good. Personally, I think we'll see mixed results.

That's what I expect too. How mixed those results are will probably determine how high the Vikes draft a DB next spring. I think the same will be true at WR and LB.

I agree that is sounds lame that Sherels made the team to essentially catch punts cleanly but that job is harder than it looks.

And to compare it to KR is not the same. Great KR guys are straight line speed guys, they find a seem and GO. They are never going to get smoked as they catch the ball.
But PR requires more jukes and like this whole conversation has brought up catching a high flying punt that could get you leveled.

It is still very early in his career, but you have to like the fact that they found starting material in the 7th round via Mystral Raymond. I predict they’ll draft CB fairly high in 2013, plus some back ups in later rounds. I also think DT will be a high priority in next year’s draft. Guion’s importance at NT is very under-reported right now IMO. Mike LB is also a need, but that could change if Brinkley can find himself. Having Brinkley get it together would be huge for the Vikes. It will free up high picks for other areas.

mansquatch wrote:It is still very early in his career, but you have to like the fact that they found starting material in the 7th round via Mystral Raymond.

Hold on there, partner. Raymond has a long ways to go if he's going to have any form of job security. I'm sure if Frazier would ever be completely frank, he'd want someone with more talent/playmaking ability than Raymond back there. Remember, he was still battling Sanford for the starting gig and if he won (that's still a bit unclear with his back injury), he didn't win it by an overwhelming margin. Given Sanford's limitations, that's not saying a whole lot. I love his story, though, and hope he turns into a productive safety. But we've all seen him take questionable angles and hasn't been the most sound tackler, often appearing to shy away from contact due to his smaller build. But he's young, so he can continue to bulk up and improve his technique. But if he is designated the full-time starter (he may rotate some with Sanford), I expect him to be the weaker of the two safeties in both pass and run support.

I predict they’ll draft CB fairly high in 2013, plus some back ups in later rounds.

That's entirely possible but with the way things have gone this offseason, I'm sure the hope around Winter Park is that between Cook, Robinson and Jefferson they have a decent trio to work with for the future (with some Burton and Sherels sprinkled in there for depth). I'd be pretty shocked if their first pick was a CB, to be honest. But a lot of that will be determined by the play of the secondary this season (and BPA when they're on the clock). Of course, in our division, you can never have enough talented corners.

I also think DT will be a high priority in next year’s draft. Guion’s importance at NT is very under-reported right now IMO.

I agree, and many mocks already have us drafting a DT (Star Lotulelei). Though, to be fair, the other option outside of Barkley has been corner (Xavier Rhodes, David Amerson) though my money is still on a big-time WR (provided Ponder is still the starter and the coaching staff remains), though my opinion may shift if Simpson has a career year and the Vikings lock him up with an extension.

Mike LB is also a need, but that could change if Brinkley can find himself.

That's a pretty big "if." I don't know if anyone on the defensive side of the football will be more scrutinized this season (arguments can be made for Guion and Cook).

Wow. There's a lot of speculation here, so it's impossible to get too far ahead of ourselves with the draft. Guion COULD be a sneaky-quick NT and provide some added pass-rush that a guy like Pat couldn't (while not being a liability in run support). Brinkley could surprise. Simpson could be the vertical threat the Vikings are looking for. Loadholt could career in a contract year. Cook could emerge as a "shutdown corner." Of course, none of that could happen and the Vikings could be faced with nearly as many holes next season as this one. I hope one of the guys I mentioned takes a big step forward and provides playmaking ability and stability at their respective positions. Because, I agree, it would help the next few drafts considerably.

Interesting discussion, guys. Does anything indicate how deeply into rebuilding mode the Vikings are more than how many positions could possibly be addressed with their first round pick next year? There's a lot of uncertainty on the roster right now and hopefully some of these young Vikes players will impress enough in 2012 to narrow the list of holes the team needs to address next offseason.

Regarding Brinkley: he'll be scrutinized closely but I have a feeling he's going to be fine as long as he can stay healthy. He could be a beast against the run and as a blitzer. The big question may be how much teams will be able to exploit him as a pass defender.

dead_poet wrote:Hold on there, partner. Raymond has a long ways to go if he's going to have any form of job security.

I was going to mention the same thing, and Sanford is a 7th rounder so before Smith, the Vikings didn't emphasize safety as a significant need. Probably due to all the wasted money on Madieu.

The other guy I think needs to be watched is Cook. Legal issues and injuries have kept him off the field quite a bit and when he is on the field, he hasn't exactly been all that spectacular. Everyone remembers the Detroit game where he had one or two nice defenses against CJ but the reality is he has 12 games, 33 tackles, zero interceptions, and six pass defenses in the last two seasons.

S197 wrote: I was going to mention the same thing, and Sanford is a 7th rounder so before Smith, the Vikings didn't emphasize safety as a significant need. Probably due to all the wasted money on Madieu.

Well, how far back are you looking? Remember, they spent a second round pick on a safety (Tyrell Johnson) in 2008. unfortunately, he was a bust. They definitely haven't emphasized it strongly in last couple years.

The other guy I think needs to be watched is Cook. Legal issues and injuries have kept him off the field quite a bit and when he is on the field, he hasn't exactly been all that spectacular. Everyone remembers the Detroit game where he had one or two nice defenses against CJ but the reality is he has 12 games, 33 tackles, zero interceptions, and six pass defenses in the last two seasons.

What I would really like to know is how many times receivers he was covering were targeted and how many catches, yards and TDs were made against him. He needs to step up and make some INTs but it seems to me he has shown quite bit of potential when on the field.

Just to put that stat line in perspective:

Cook's stats were compiled over two seasons he played in 6 games per season. If we project his numbers out over 16 games, we'd get 44 solo tackles, 0 INTs and 8 passes defended.

Last season, Darelle Revis, a 5 year veteran and arguably the premier CB in the NFL, had 41 solo tackles, 4 INTs and 21 passes defended. Those are superior numbers to Cook's but again, Revis is one of the best CBs in the league.

I'd say if Cook can play 16 games, make 40+ tackles, defend 10+ passes and pull down at least 2 INTs this year, that would be a very encouraging stat line. Of course, other than the INTs, it's the other stats I mentioned above that would be most meaningful since Cook's primary job is to prevent completions and TDs. He hasn't been spectacular thus far but 6 games as a rookie and 6 more last year aren't much to go on. You're right, he's definitely someone who will be scrutinized this season.

Mothman wrote:Well, how far back are you looking? Remember, they spent a second round pick on a safety (Tyrell Johnson) in 2008. unfortunately, he was a bust. They definitely haven't emphasized it strongly in last couple years.

I completely forgot about Johnson. Coping mechanism I think, but you're correct, they did spend a 2nd rounder.

What I would really like to know is how many times receivers he was covering were targeted and how many catches, yards and TDs were made against him. He needs to step up and make some INTs but it seems to me he has shown quite bit of potential when on the field.

I wouldn't mind knowing that either although I have no idea where to find that sort of information or if it even exists. Maybe someone like Dead Poet might know of a reference.

Just to put that stat line in perspective:

Cook's stats were compiled over two seasons he played in 6 games per season. If we project his numbers out over 16 games, we'd get 44 solo tackles, 0 INTs and 8 passes defended.

Last season, Darelle Revis, a 5 year veteran and arguably the premier CB in the NFL, had 41 solo tackles, 4 INTs and 21 passes defended. Those are superior numbers to Cook's but again, Revis is one of the best CBs in the league.

I'd say if Cook can play 16 games, make 40+ tackles, defend 10+ passes and pull down at least 2 INTs this year, that would be a very encouraging stat line. Of course, other than the INTs, it's the other stats I mentioned above that would be most meaningful since Cook's primary job is to prevent completions and TDs. He hasn't been spectacular thus far but 6 games as a rookie and 6 more last year aren't much to go on. You're right, he's definitely someone who will be scrutinized this season.

I don't really want to go down the road of sensitizing Cook's stats, I think all I'm really saying is even with a guy like Cook, we don't really know what we have yet. I hope he pans out, the last thing we need is another 2nd round bust, but to date, his body of work leaves much to be desired.