Vikings Message Board.Com

in 2012 I'd:

Start: Christian Ponder
Backup: Webb (he already has the coaching staff behind him in wanting him to have a full year focusing on the QB postion. I'd let that play out at this point while continuing to get as many reps as possible to help with his progression and evaluation).
#3: Sage
Practice Squad (if possible): MBT

The real issue, for me, would be 2013. My big concern is Joe Webb's progression as a quarterback, or lack thereof. After another year, I think the coaching staff should have enough to properly see if he's improving to the degree they feel he should be. If the answer is yes, keep him around as your backup and continue to develop him. I'm not confident in this, particularly after watching Sage and MBT side-by-side.

In 2013 I'd let MBT (and probable late-round or undrafted rookie) compete with Sage to be our #2 and put Webb at full-time WR development and try him at returns where his athletic ability can truly shine. Yes, he reportedly has questionable hands. That's where practice should come in (with a commitment to WR without splitting duties as a QB he'd have a greater chance to hone those skills and improve marketably). There's going to be a time when Sage's role as "advisor/tutor" isn't worth A) what they're paying him and B) stunting the growth of potential higher-upside youngster. He'll be 35 next season, which isn't put-them-out-to-pasture age (Brady is 35) but if a guy like MBT can ascend and out-play a guy like Sage, Sage then has very little use. Frankly, I like what I've seen from MBT despite his ridiculous beard. I'd be very curious to see him behind the starting offensive line with our full compliment of playmakers.

The only other scenario I'd prefer if Webb isn't progressing THIS SEASON is to trade him. Sage becomes our #2 with MBT our #3. I find this unlikely, however. The coaching staff likes Webb, is behind him and values his athleticism (plus he's probably more valuable to us and getting anything higher than a sixth-rounder is unlikely). The problem continues to be his vision, accuracy (it's been pretty bad this season, even his completed passes have been off the mark) and pocket presence. To his credit, he has attempted to stay in the pocket longer this year before looking to run.

Just some thoughts as we wait for news on cuts.

I generally agree, but I think putting him in at WR is just shifiting the roster spot waste. That just resets the learning curve and again we are sitting on a guy who we are "waiting to develop" in favor of other guys. Also, at some point we have to ask if Webb's upside justifies such a posture.

I'm fine making the gamble this season, but at some point with Webb they are either going to need to realize some sort of gain or stop waiting for him to shoot the moon when some other guy they cut could ahve turned into something more for them. Long story short, next pre-season Webb needs to show us something.

mansquatch wrote:I generally agree, but I think putting him in at WR is just shifiting the roster spot waste.

I don't agree. Given our lack of quality depth at the WR position and relative "safety" at QB (or how close Webb/Sage are to each other in terms of productivity at the #2 QB position and decent play and potential of MBT to be a capable backup) I think it's worth taking the chance (on the condition MBT is signed and remains on the practice squad).

Also, at some point we have to ask if Webb's upside justifies such a posture.

Given his size/speed and obvious athleticism I easily think a case could be made.

I'm fine making the gamble this season, but at some point with Webb they are either going to need to realize some sort of gain or stop waiting for him to shoot the moon when some other guy they cut could ahve turned into something more for them.

And there inlies the issue. I contend Webb likely has more potential to contribute as a solid WR than, say, Pat Brown as a tackle (or even Burton as a WR). YMMV

I also realize that at this point we're several years into Joe Webb's career and it's looking increasingly likely that he's going to remain at QB after two "regimes" placed him in that role. Realistically, the only way Webb plays another position (on consistent basis) is if he's traded or Frazier 'N Company are shown the door and the new staff wants to get a look at him in a different role. I'll admit that I haven't been impressed with Webb this offseason/preseason, which is why I guess I'm advocating that he be tried elsewhere, especially given how naturally athletic he is and how we could desperately use that athleticism in other areas. However he has shown he has the capability to win games at the (backup) quarterback position.

I'd like to see Webb with the first string o-line to make a big judgement on him. He obviously has to scramble with the 2's as they are horrible.

Guys on ESPN1500 are talking about this very issue. One point they brought up that I found relevant to keep Joe is that do we really need that "developmental young guy" (MBT) if we're committing to Christian Ponder for the next 5-10 years? From that perspective, the veteran (Sage) makes a lot more sense than MBT on the active 53 and Webb does enough to come in every now and again (spot starts or off the bench) to be productive and give defenses fits. Any prolonged absence from Ponder and I'd probably give the nod to Sage, who can seemingly run the offense a bit more smoothly and get what's given.

I think this year has to be the "make it or break it" season for Webb. Either he shows enough as a backup QB to justify continuing to develop him in that role in 2013 or the Vikes should consider moving on. I don't really want to see him moved back to WR again.

For this season, I'd keep him at #2, keep giving him reps and see how he develops. I'd keep Sage at #3 and stash MBT on the practice squad (or replace him with a better practice squad QB if they find one). Next season, if Webb has progressed enough he can fill the role of veteran backup. Sage should be gone and the third QB should be a developmental player with future starter potential. If Webb doesn't cut it, I'd like to see them look for a younger (than Sage) veteran backup and add a developmental player.

Hopefully, Webb will make some real progress as a passer this year.

I am sure this has been mentioned before, but the problem I have with Joe Webb as the #2 is that he is not a viable multigame starter if Ponder goes down. If he comes in during a game he is much more successful, but when teams get a chance to gameplan for him he crumbles. So if Ponder is going to miss any significant time I would they consider Sage to start because he has shown he can move the chains even with 3rd stringers and still let Webb do his midgame wildcat or whatever you want to call it.

If Christian Ponder gets hurt, who gives the Vikings the best leadership and chance to win at QB, Webb or Sage? I think that's the criteria the Vikings should use to determine who will be the #2 QB.

At this point I see Joe Webb as an experiment at both QB and WR. Since the focus has been on Webb playing the QB position, I guess I would continue that course. If Webb doesn't have good hands, then I see the WR experiment as a waste of time. The Vikings need help at the WR position and they already have some WRs that are good athletes but not all that dependable. They need to go beyond that kind of mediocrity in order to build up the WR corps.

Joe Webb has two NFL starts, iirc. Without looking, I'm guessing he has more than ten passes in six games. It seems early to write him off. Especially since he occasionally flashes some incredible talent.

So yes, I assume that it would be pretty easy to game plan a qb without a season's worth of games. And if Ponder is healthy, Webb still won't have enough game experience to accurately evaluate him. What would he look like after 16 starts, I wonder?

cant believe we dont have a quality experienced backup. joe webb is an athlete not a qb. ponder doesnt look very durable. he had ok moments last year and in preseason but i dont see too many wins coming.