Vikings Message Board.Com

Mothman wrote:Here's a crazy idea: why not just blame the losses on the entire team?

This.

Any other argument is just making excuses for someone in the organization. These losses (er, lack of wins) are a total team effort. Starting with the front office and working their way through the coaching staff and coordinators, right down to the backups on special teams. Offense, defense, QB, receivers, linemen, linebackers, defensive backs.

mondry wrote:Great post!

I've said before as well that at this point we KNOW what we have in the defense and that's a unit that can't be counted on to hold a lead in the 4th quarter.

... and yet the #1 complaint about this Vikings team, and the #1 topic of discussion by a substantial margin, is weakness at the QB position. We've also been talking for years now about poor blocking up front on offense and the offensive playcalling is constantly taken to task by fans so with all of those issues in mind, how is it logical to suggest that the offense should be relied on to seal a win in the 4th quarter?

Neither the offense or the defense on the 2013 Vikings is capable of carrying the other unit.

They need that Belichik type killer instinct that says "up by 14? Time to go up by 21!" and really put the game out of reach when the opportunity is there instead of feeling comfortable sitting on a lead, watching it evaporate, and then trying to "turn it back on".

If only they had tried something like throwing a deep route to Patterson in the 4th quarter. An aggressive, big play down the field could have really changed the outcome of that game.

mondry wrote:

Just wanted to say I'm in total agreement though, with all of the investments they've made on the offensive side of the ball, that really needs to be the unit to "carry" this team if you will and when crunch time hits, the one I think needs to step up and put the game away.

And that is why, if I had to choose, I'd choose to place more blame on the offense.

Mothman wrote: Here's a crazy idea: why not just blame the losses on the entire team? After all, the entire team plays the games and each player on each unit has a job to do. Not on of these losses is solely on the offense or the defense or the special teams or even the mighty Christian Ponder. They're all team losses. Every. Single. One.

I'm sorry. Did I say that I put all of the blame for all of our losses on just our offense? Did I say that? If I did, I apologize. Maybe you didn't read between the lines and, therefore, couldn't understand my implications. I forgot how we have to spell everything out on this message board or people go "huh!?" or pick apart any incomplete thought they can. Pretty sure that's what just happened.

I'm just responding to all those posters blaming the defense for our losses. You certainly couldn't be one of those, because your stance is: "it's everybody." Right? I agree, however, I'm responding to those other posters.. Because if I had to choose, I'd lean towards putting more blame (more blame implies there is blame to go around...not putting it solely on one person or unit) on the offense for reasons previously mentioned. It's not fair to put more blame on one player vs. another? It's not fair to have higher expectations for a unit with more talent and healthy players? I guess it's not fair to even discuss it. My bad. Thought I could have an opinion around here.

Also, I didn't know that the Minnesota Vikings, as a team, lost all of those games, especially every. single. one. The way most people talk it is: The Minnesota Vikings defense losing against errybody, or or or Ponder vs. the world. I don't think I said either of those things. As a matter of fact, I know I didn't. I said everyone sucks this year, however, the offense should be counted on to step up in those situations (crunch time is the ONLY time I was discussing)...because of reasons previously mentioned. That is my opinion.

MelanieMFunk wrote:I'm sorry. Did I say that I put all of the blame for all of our losses on just our offense? Did I say that? If I did, I apologize. Maybe you didn't read between the lines and, therefore, couldn't understand my implications. I forgot how we have to spell everything out on this message board or people go "huh!?" or pick apart any incomplete thought they can. Pretty sure that's what just happened.

You expressed yourself very clearly and the main thrust of your post was to blame the offense, to hold them more responsible than the defense. You even wrote the words 'I blame the offense" in the post and you practically wrote it twice. It wasn't difficult to comprehend.

I'm just responding to all those posters blaming the defense for our losses.

... and I was just responding to all the posters who want to blame one unit or the other or worry about which one is more to blame. You appear to have taken my response as some sort of personal affront but that isn't what I intended. I wasn't picking your post apart. You made a comment. It sparked what seems to me like a pretty reasonable response. Isn't that how this board is supposed to work?

You certainly couldn't be one of those, because your stance is "it's everybody." Right? I agree, however, I'm responding to those other posters.. Because if I had to choose, I'd lean towards putting more blame (more blame implies there is blame to go around...not putting it solely on one person or unit) on the offense for reasons previously mentioned. It's not fair to put more blame on one player vs. another? It's not fair to have higher expectations for a unit with more talent and healthy players? I guess it's not fair to even discuss it. My bad. Thought I could have an opinion around here.

Oh, please, don't start down that road. Nobody is trying to stifle your opinion. You made a point and I made a pretty general point in response to it. It wasn't about you. Honestly. I just don't see the point in trying to blame one unit more than the other when it's pretty obvious they're both to blame.

Mothman wrote:
You expressed yourself very clearly and the main thrust of your post was to blame the offense, to hold them more responsible than the defense. You even wrote the words 'I blame the offense" in the post and you practically wrote it twice. It wasn't difficult to comprehend.

And, I still do blame the offense more than the defense in crunch time, but that doesn't mean I don't blame the defense, too. I was picking one, and since it went against the seemingly popular view, I thought it was worth sharing. Regardless, I didn't understand your response to me about putting sole blame on one player or unit. I didn't feel I did that, especially concerning the game in its entirety. When I posted a response, it was just a general response. It wasn't a reply to anyone else's individual post. That gets confusing at times. It seemed as if you were putting other people's words in my mouth...so to speak. I understand that it wasn't personal, but when you quote someone...it sort of appears that way, does it not?

I just don't see the point in trying to blame one unit more than the other when it's pretty obvious they're both to blame.

Understandable. There are plenty of things on this board that I don't see the point in discussing. And for those topics, I just don't comment. This one, I figured I'd share my thoughts. Your thoughts are just that it's pretty much not worth discussing or...?

MelanieMFunk wrote:And, I still do blame the offense more than the defense in crunch time, but that doesn't mean I don't blame the defense, too. I was picking one, and since it went against the seemingly popular view, I thought it was worth sharing. Regardless, I didn't understand your response to me about putting sole blame on one player or unit. I didn't feel I did that, especially concerning the game in its entirety. When I posted a response, it was just a general response. It wasn't a reply to anyone else's individual post. That gets confusing at times. It seemed as if you were putting other people's words in my mouth...so to speak. I understand that it wasn't personal, but when you quote someone...it sort of appears that way, does it not

It certainly can. Misunderstandings abound around here.

Understandable. There are plenty of things on this board that I don't see the point in discussing. And for those topics, I just don't comment. This one, I figured I'd share my thoughts. Your thoughts are just that it's pretty much not worth discussing or...?

My thought is that this season, there's just not much to discuss in terms of blaming one unit more than the other since significant flaws and weaknesses are apparent in every unit and at pretty much every level of the team. There are times when a team is clearly very lopsided but wouldn't you agree that the 2013 Vikings look very flawed in all 3 phases of the game? Their offense struggles in the red zone, in the 4th quarter and turns it over too much. Their defense struggles to get off the field on third down and to hold late leads and their special teams have been poor in coverage and vulnerable to fakes. That's basically the tip of the proverbial iceberg! There's just not much reason I can see to expect any of these units to carry the others because none of them are very good. After all, the offense doesn't put games into the hands of the defense late because that's their strategy. They do it because they can't sustain those late game drives when they need to sustain them, just like the defense can't hold those leads when they need to hold them.

In other words...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKofnVkUwBA

Even with the 'good and bad' Ponder show, the worst part of this team, is the D. And its all beat up now. But even when it wasn't beat up, the scheme didn't work. It needs to be fine tuned up to modern standards. A better QB would help, no doubt. But until the D get a lot of help, we will always blow the lead. And with the current staff, we will always play it too safe instead of going for the jugular.

And I am by no means a Ponder supporter. I never want to see him in a Vikings uniform again, and pray for the day when I see him in a Lion, Bear, or Packer uniform. But his play was more then good enough for us to win. JA's wasn't. Does Floyd ever do anything? Kwill is hit or miss. Guion is a buffoon. Cole may be our best LB. Its just so sad. Ive gone from loving Greenway to hoping we can get anything for him in a trade, He cant even wrap up now.

PurpleKoolaid wrote:Even with the 'good and bad' Ponder show, the worst part of this team, is the D. And its all beat up now. But even when it wasn't beat up, the scheme didn't work. It needs to be fine tuned up to modern standards. A better QB would help, no doubt. But until the D get a lot of help, we will always blow the lead. And with the current staff, we will always play it too safe instead of going for the jugular.

And I am by no means a Ponder supporter. I never want to see him in a Vikings uniform again, and pray for the day when I see him in a Lion, Bear, or Packer uniform. But his play was more then good enough for us to win. JA's wasn't. Does Floyd ever do anything? Kwill is hit or miss. Guion is a buffoon. Cole may be our best LB. Its just so sad. Ive gone from loving Greenway to hoping we can get anything for him in a trade, He cant even wrap up now.

The tackling was embarrassing yesterday. I never thought I'd see the day where the vikings couldn't stop the run. They were in decent position to make plays for most of the day, but there were just so many arm tackles I couldn't believe it. Lacy was stopped at least a full yard behind the line of scrimmage on 4th and 1, and he pushed his way for positive yardage. The vikings win with that stop right there. I just couldn't believe the terrible tackling. And yesterday obviously wasnt the first time I've felt that way.

Did anyone else see Peterson roll his eyes after the defense let the Packers score? Thoughts?

I think it was the score to send them to overtime. I don't remember the specifics, I just remember that the camera was on him and he rolled his eyes for a very long time. He seemed disgusted that he had to go back out there and go to work. I mean, I get the frustration. I'm just not sure if, as a leader, that was a very good reaction.

Sure sums up this season, though! It was just weird for me to see, I guess.

MelanieMFunk wrote:Did anyone else see Peterson roll his eyes after the defense let the Packers score? Thoughts?

I think it was the score to send them to overtime. I don't remember the specifics, I just remember that the camera was on him and he rolled his eyes for a very long time. He seemed disgusted that he had to go back out there and go to work. I mean, I get the frustration. I'm just not sure if, as a leader, that was a very good reaction.

Sure sums up this season, though! It was just weird for me to see, I guess.

I saw it and unless AP has a Harvin-like "get me out of here" meltdown, I won't ever question his frustration. He's been the heart and soul of this organization for 7 seasons. He's had to deal with QBs like TJack, McNabb, Ponder and the rest. He's had a knucklehead as one of his coaches and a guy in over his head as another. It's a constant matter of the team getting everything they possibly can out of HIM while all too often those around him don't pull their weight or aren't good enough to hold they positions they hold. Last year he willed the team to the playoffs only to have one of our now WRs start that game as the QB. The organization created that situation. SIX times this year the Vikings defense has been in position to make a stop to win the game in the final minutes. They've failed 4 times. He can roll his eyes until they fall out of his head. He's certainly entitled to feel a little miffed that he's surrounded by incompetence. In fact, he has every right to get in someone's face ala Chris Carter, but that isn't his style. Despite all the failure around him, he still goes hard every game. He has every reason to want to leave the Vikings and go work for an organization committed to winning. I think you're nitpicking.

tmscr wrote:I saw it and unless AP has a Harvin-like "get me out of here" meltdown, I won't ever question his frustration. He's been the heart and soul of this organization for 7 seasons. He's had to deal with QBs like TJack, McNabb, Ponder and the rest. He's had a knucklehead as one of his coaches and a guy in over his head as another. It's a constant matter of the team getting everything they possibly can out of HIM while all too often those around him don't pull their weight or aren't good enough to hold they positions they hold. Last year he willed the team to the playoffs only to have one of our now WRs start that game as the QB. The organization created that situation. SIX times this year the Vikings defense has been in position to make a stop to win the game in the final minutes. They've failed 4 times. He can roll his eyes until they fall out of his head. He's certainly entitled to feel a little miffed that he's surrounded by incompetence. In fact, he has every right to get in someone's face ala Chris Carter, but that isn't his style. Despite all the failure around him, he still goes hard every game. He has every reason to want to leave the Vikings and go work for an organization committed to winning. I think you're nitpicking.

Excellent post!

tmscr wrote: I think you're nitpicking.

You're probably right. I find it odd to see a grown man roll his eyes. I have yet to see it in person, so it rubbed me the wrong way to see the leader of our football team do that towards his teammates. I don't question his work ethic, I question that individual response. Like I said, I don't see men act like that. It's strange. Threw me off. And it was a tad disheartening. He's supposed to be the strong one.

MelanieMFunk wrote: You're probably right. I find it odd to see a grown man roll his eyes. I have yet to see it in real life, so it rubbed me the wrong way to see the leader of our football team do that towards his teammates. I don't question his work ethic, I question that individual response. Like I said, I don't see men act like that. It's strange. Threw me off. And it was a tad disheartening. He's supposed to be the strong one.

Then you need to see me when I watch the vikings play . You're entitled to your opinion, I just think you'd have to agree that the way Peterson carries himself in the face of such organizational incompetence is about as rare as it gets for a sports superstar these days. How many other guys would be banging down the door to get out in his position? He knows his years are getting short. This team isn't close to winning. Not only does he not ask to leave, he doesn't even complain! Harvin wanted out in the midst of a playoff run! Peterson embodies leadership, from what I can see as a fan. Not through words but through his work. It's amazing that the other guys don't feed off of that, but that's why they've won twice this season.

Mothman wrote: Excellent post!

Thank you. The biggest shame is that the Vikings have had one of the greatest players ever to play his position and haven't surrounded him accordingly. He will most likely never get a ring. Such a waste.