Vikings Message Board.Com

Texas Vike wrote: I don't know how you roll, but me? With my friends? More than half of what we text is us BSing one another, exaggerating, giving each other a hard time, inside jokes, etc. Anyone reading our texts without knowing us and without (lots of) context ... well, I don't know WHAT they'd think! But they sure wouldn't have an accurate picture of reality, that's for sure. I don't think there's a smoking gun here at all.

I would think if you look at their history and pattern of conversations, this could be determined. I'm also guessing how you text with your friends is much different than how you text with fellow employees.

if the texts are included in the report and there is no indication of them looking into the context....why did they include them?

_
to me, it doesn't sound they have any legitimate claim to bring the hammer down on Brady...no proof. Which means they will probably suspend him for multiple games.

808vikingsfan wrote:
I would think if you look at their history and pattern of conversations, this could be determined. I'm also guessing how you text with your friends is much different than how you text with fellow employees.

You are assuming that friends and colleagues don't overlap. That's an erroneous assumption.

Even if they were giving each other ####...they clearly knew what they were doing was cheating or they wouldn't have even brought up ESPN or getting paid for it. And they sure wouldn't take the balls with them into the bathroom to let air out of them.

But it's just the NFL, out to ruin their own image by going out of their way to punish their biggest star and best team, for not cheating.

Texas Vike wrote: You are assuming that friends and colleagues don't overlap. That's an erroneous assumption.

Hey, whatever. It was obvious to me Brady was not being honest in his interviews back in January. Seeing these texts along with him withholding evidence just confirms in my eyes that Brady conspired with the staff and intentionally had his balls deflated.

808vikingsfan wrote: Brady conspired with the staff and intentionally had his balls deflated.

I have given this a lot of thought, and it has really bugged me.

America in past generations, was a great place. I have so much respect, for my grandfathers generation.
The things they accomplished not only during the war, but also after it. Their dominance in industry, set America
up for 50-60 years of success. When the White Sox threw the series; America was stunned, and their was consequences.
Now people just don't care, that hundreds of players and their families, got cheated out a dream. Many of those players
and their families, will never get a second chance to get a championship. I can't support what the NFL is today.
If more people had standards and ethics; I believe we would be much better off. I will wait and see if the NFL
and captain hypocrite do anything about the latest scandal. My guess is, nothing will happen to Terrific Tom,
or the Pats.

jackal wrote:I have given this a lot of thought, and it has really bugged me.

America in past generations, was a great place. I have so much respect, for my grandfathers generation.
The things they accomplished not only during the war, but also after it. Their dominance in industry, set America
up for 50-60 years of success. When the White Sox threw the series; America was stunned, and their was consequences.
Now people just don't care, that hundreds of players and their families, got cheated out a dream. Many of those players
and their families, will never get a second chance to get a championship. I can't support what the NFL is today.
If more people had standards and ethics; I believe we would be much better off. I will wait and see if the NFL
and captain hypocrite do anything about the latest scandal. My guess is, nothing will happen to Terrific Tom,
or the Pats.

When standards and ethics move from the objective to the subjective within a society there's no telling where things will end up. Its pretty much the foundation of civilization, so its a fascinating experiment we are witnessing...though I'm not optimistic about where it will end.

I wonder, if football psi is such a big deal, why nobody is upset that amidst the texts included in the Wells report, a Patriots employee tested a football used in the Pats/Jets game, and approved by the refs, and found it to be inflated to 16 psi! If that measurement was even close to accurate, it means the footballs used in that game were WAY over the allowed range of 12.5 psi to 13.5 psi. That doesn't say much for the NFL's quality control in this area and it calls into question how often teams are playing with under- or over-inflated footballs in NFL games anyway. If it's happening frequently, how much is that impacting competitive balance? Who is being cheated by sheer sloppiness?

fiestavike wrote:When standards and ethics move from the objective to the subjective within a society there's no telling where things will end up. Its pretty much the foundation of civilization, so its a fascinating experiment we are witnessing...though I'm not optimistic about where it will end.

I'm not either. The subjective seems to be winning the battle.

This is a good read:

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015 ... story.html

Mothman wrote:I wonder, if football psi is such a big deal, why nobody is upset that amidst the texts included in the Wells report, a Patriots employee tested a football used in the Pats/Jets game, and approved by the refs, and found it to be inflated to 16 psi! If that measurement was even close to accurate, it means the footballs used in that game were WAY over the allowed range of 12.5 psi to 13.5 psi. That doesn't say much for the NFL's quality control in this area and it calls into question how often teams are playing with under- or over-inflated footballs in NFL games anyway. If it's happening frequently, how much is that impacting competitive balance? Who is being cheated by sheer sloppiness?
I'm not either. The subjective seems to be winning the battle.

In this case, does it matter? I mean what was the purpose of the Wells investigation anyway?

Under the Policy, the “standard of proof required to find that a violation of the competitive rules has occurred” is a “Preponderance of the Evidence,” meaning
that
“as a whole, the fact sought to be proved is more probable than not.

I do agree that this report is more like a smoking gun, but there's no way Wells was going to get all the information he needed to make a fully objective decision. How could he when the Patriots denied an interview with Mcnally? Or Brady withholds his texts and emails that could help clear (or hurt) his name? The NFL doesn't have the power to subpoena. No one was forced to tell the truth. This is evident in the answers Jastremski gave (and Brady) during interviews. The investigation and report was solely for the NFL (Goodell) to determine the probability if Brady knew about and lied about the deflating.

I really think a follow up interview with Mcnally and Brady's information would have made this case a lot clearer.

808vikingsfan wrote:In this case, does it matter? I mean what was the purpose of the Wells investigation anyway?

Wells served up a report that used that exact language too and if you read through enough of it, it's hard not to wonder if that was his mission in the first place. There's a very strong feel of confirmation bias in the report.

I do agree that this report is more like a smoking gun, but there's no way Wells was going to get all the information he needed to make a fully objective decision. How could he when the Patriots denied an interview with Mcnally?

He interviewed McNally four times. The Patriots denied him a 5th interview because they thought it was excessive.

Or Brady withholds his texts and emails that could help clear (or hurt) his name? The NFL doesn't have the power to subpoena. No one was forced to tell the truth. This is evident in the answers Jastremski gave (and Brady) during interviews. The investigation and report was solely for the NFL (Goodell) to determine the probability if Brady knew about and lied about the deflating.

I really think a follow up interview with Mcnally and Brady's information would have made this case a lot clearer.

Wells had the chance to extensively interview both men. I don't blame Brady for not turning over his phone. Having his texts might have been helpful to Wells but the NFL doesn't have a great track record of preventing leaks and that phone probably contains all sorts of information about his private life.

Mothman wrote: I don't blame Brady for not turning over his phone. Having his texts might have been helpful to Wells but the NFL doesn't have a great track record of preventing leaks and that phone probably contains all sorts of information about his private life.

Probably some texts between he and A'aron Rodgers that would prove pretty awkward.

Mothman wrote: He interviewed McNally four times. The Patriots denied him a 5th interview because they thought it was excessive.

Can you post where you found this info? From what I've read, the Patriots were making it difficult to ask follow up questions to Mcnally. Mcnally was interviewed by NFL officers (security, etc..)
but in the report, Wells is making it sound as if he never had another opportunity to interview Mcnally after the initial one.

Although we requested a follow-up interview of Jim McNally after our initial
interview, counsel for the Patriots refused our request.

McNally was one of the earliest Patriots personnel interviewed by our
investigative team and a number of important follow-up questions had arisen based on
subsequent interviews and information discovered after our initial interview of McNally.
Counsel for the Patriots, however, declined to produce McNally, and communicated an
unwillingness even to advise McNally of our request for a follow-up interview.

Mothman wrote:Wells had the chance to extensively interview both men. I don't blame Brady for not turning over his phone. Having his texts might have been helpful to Wells but the NFL doesn't have a great track record of preventing leaks and that phone probably contains all sorts of information about his private life.

On further thought, I take back my statement that re interviewing Mcnally would have cleared up anything. IMO, they (Mcnally, Jastremski, Brady) were never truthful when interviewed or asked about phone calls, meetings, or what the texts messages referred to so it wouldn't have made a difference. They would have answered with the same "we never talked about the deflating during that time." I do, however, think Brady's info (documents, texts, emails) could have made a huge difference. It would have been more than helpful. If he's innocent, it probably would have cleared his name.

There is sort of a tunnel vision feel to this report. To be fair, there is also a lot of frustration shown in this report with the people involved not being cooperative and forthright. I think because Brady is being deceitful and uncooperative, Goodell has no other choice but to suspend Brady. My guess is anywhere from 2-8 games.

Has Brady shown the proper remorse?