No More Ponder!!!!

[The Breeze]

TB has 1 start and got injured. Cassel out for the season. Division games coming and opponents know how pi$$ poor this o-line is and exactly how to atttack it.
TB is miles beyond Ponder, but i would be surprised if the guy lasts the whole season.

How many multisack games did Guion have for the Purple?

[Thaumaturgist]

When you watch Teddy, you don't see those flinching traits. Teddy is aware of the rush, but not consumed by it. In fact, he's downright calm. Cassel is better than Ponder when he's rushed, but nowhere near as calm as Teddy.

Lets just hope that our offensive line doesn't cause Teddy to start flinching as well.

[dead_poet]

Ponder's timing is also a problem. It's just something he's never seemed to get quite right consistently. He doesn't pull the trigger early enough, I think because he's worried about mistakes ... and ironically it leads to more mistakes (and it doesn't help the offensive line either!)

Take that pass Bridgewater threw to Jennings last week that was on it's way before Jennings even made his break on the post. I can't picture Ponder ever making that decision quickly enough and having the ball placed properly.

That's exactly right. I'll take it back to golfing (something I've done since I was six). Whenever faced with a difficult driving hole (tight, hazards, etc.) I've constantly found that if I try and let up or "steer" the ball (instead of just lining up, having confidence and firing away), the result is typically not what I was going for. Frankly, I think sometimes his head gets in the way. I'm trying to figure out why a very smart guy like Ponder can be so consistently inefficient. I mean, he's probably on par with Peyton Manning as far as football IQ with the Xs and Os (though maybe Manning has an advantage with the pre-snap reads), but the differences couldn't be more stark. It's certainly not arm strength. Can you really boil it down to talent? Perhaps it's simply decisiveness, confidence and accuracy?

[Leafman]

Can you really boil it down to talent? Perhaps it's simply decisiveness, confidence and accuracy?

I think J. Kapp11 broke it down perfectly earlier in this thread, really described in detail his shortcomings and what is going on with him mechanically and psychologically (which is a bit of guesswork of course) extremely well.

LEAFMAN THE PURPLE FAN

[Cliff]

Agreed. He doesn't seem to trust himself and on those rare occasions when he seems to do it, he looks much, much better. It hasn't happened often.

Well, hopefully, that was his last appearance for the Vikings. If so, it's a shame it went down that way.

I remember Ponder's first couple of games with the Vikings. I felt like there was a lot of hope then. He seemed a lot more confident ... wasn't his first pass even a long bomb for a TD or am I misremembering?

At some point that confidence went away and it feels like he never recovered from that ... maybe after that first injury with his swollen shoulder?

[PurpleKoolaid]

To say I don't like #7 would be putting it mildly. My question is, why is he on this team? When we let MBT go and kept Ponder, I said it should have been the other way around. And everyone here laughed at me. My reasoning was, why not develop a young talent, while we hope we will never use the 3rd string QB. Even Rickie knew #7 stunk, yet he stuck with him. Dumping his 3-4 million means nothing to the Wilf's. That's like 5 bucks to us. Rickie has no idea how to build a team. Im sorry if this sounds harsh to those that think Rickie can do no harm, but his picking 'athletic' players, over players that know their position, and have played it their entire college carrier, isn't working out. If we are picking in the 3rd rd for a RB, then pick a RB. Same goes with WR. And Safety. What happens when Teddy has a few bad games (one of the few great picks by Rickie)?

We have nothing to fall back on. Like if Harrison goes down. The whole secondary will look like crap. Why don't we have a great WR, and a few good ones? Jennings, the ex packer, is so overpaid it makes me sick. Ford looks like he can catch as well as Kyle, Wright was a 1 game wonder (I hope im wrong about this and he can be at least a good WR with Teddy). But if Teddy goes down for a long period of time, we will have Fraizer like numbers for wins. That falls on Rickie. And if some of you still want to blame it on 'execution', the blame still falls on Rickie. And Zimmer. Rickie needs to have the players Zimmer can coach. We cant have a #7 on the team if no one in the state of MN trusts him.

[The Breeze]

I remember Ponder's first couple of games with the Vikings. I felt like there was a lot of hope then. He seemed a lot more confident ... wasn't his first pass even a long bomb for a TD or am I misremembering?

At some point that confidence went away and it feels like he never recovered from that ... maybe after that first injury with his swollen shoulder?

His first completion was a bomb to Jenkins on a double move off of play action gainst GB. It was a skosh under thron and Jenkins was brought down short ofthe enzone.
It did look promising until the Lions game where Ponder got repeadtedly smashed and injured his hip on a brutal hit out of the pocket.
That's where it all turned IMO.
A much improved, discipline-wise, Lions team next week.....good luck to Teddy.

[Mothman]

Can you really boil it down to talent? Perhaps it's simply decisiveness, confidence and accuracy?

To an extent, they might be the same thing. There's natural physical talent but to some extent, the ability to be remain confident, maintain good fundamentals be decisive under pressure might all be innate as well. Clearly, not every body has it and some QBs never seem to develop it.

I remember Ponder's first couple of games with the Vikings. I felt like there was a lot of hope then. He seemed a lot more confident ... wasn't his first pass even a long bomb for a TD or am I misremembering?

It was a long completion to Jenkins thats et up a short TD pass.

At some point that confidence went away and it feels like he never recovered from that ... maybe after that first injury with his swollen shoulder?

Maybe. I forget when that happened. He took some nasty shots as a rookie but he started his second season pretty strong so I think his confidence may have really gone down the tubes when he hit a slump in 2012. He never seemed to fully come out of it.

[J. Kapp 11]

That's exactly right. I'll take it back to golfing (something I've done since I was six). Whenever faced with a difficult driving hole (tight, hazards, etc.) I've constantly found that if I try and let up or "steer" the ball (instead of just lining up, having confidence and firing away), the result is typically not what I was going for. Frankly, I think sometimes his head gets in the way. I'm trying to figure out why a very smart guy like Ponder can be so consistently inefficient. I mean, he's probably on par with Peyton Manning as far as football IQ with the Xs and Os (though maybe Manning has an advantage with the pre-snap reads), but the differences couldn't be more stark. It's certainly not arm strength. Can you really boil it down to talent? Perhaps it's simply decisiveness, confidence and accuracy?

It probably depends on your definition of "talent," but I think you answered your own question.

Decisiveness, confidence and accuracy are all critical components of talent -- different that physical ability, which is another component of talent. I think many attributes comprise talent, not all of them physical.

Your golf analogy is perfect. Is Sergio Garcia physically gifted enough to win a major? Of course, easily. But there's something about his makeup, like your comment about playing a difficult hole, that fails him at the times he needs it the most -- and he's still not won a major. I watched the guy make 11 straight one-putts and 7 straight birdies in the first round of the WGC Bridgestone Invitational this past August. Fired a 61. One of the greatest rounds I've ever seen. But he lost the tournament to Rory McIlroy, a guy with marginally more physical talent than Sergio but tons more mental makeup.

I think if you lined up Teddy Bridgewater against Christian Ponder in a throwing contest, there wouldn't be a huge difference. Have them run a race, and Ponder would probably win. Heck, Ponder might win most of the combine-type measurables. But Bridgewater is by far the more talented quarterback, and the attributes you mention are probably key.

[mansquatch]

Kapp is right on the money. So was Reignman. To Ponder's malaise, look at the short throws that are off target. Look at the second pick, he hesitates AND THEN throws it behind the receiver, it ends up going right to the defender. The announcers ripped this one properly too, they said he didn't throw with decisiveness or confidence. Even when Ponder does complete the throw the WR has to adjust to the ball, the location is almost universally off the mark. Per Kapp, I think it is almost all psychological.


Bridgewater is the polar opposite of this, he has Ice in his veins.

Get well Teddy. Get well soon!

[maembe]

To say I don't like #7 would be putting it mildly. My question is, why is he on this team? When we let MBT go and kept Ponder, I said it should have been the other way around. And everyone here laughed at me. My reasoning was, why not develop a young talent, while we hope we will never use the 3rd string QB.
.

They are the same age. Also MBT put up worse numbers at Sacremento State and the UFL than Ponder has in the NFL. The reality is, NFL GM's don't make decisions based purely on emotion and don't have the emotional attachment to or hatred of players that fans do.

[PurpleKoolaid]

They are the same age. Also MBT put up worse numbers at Sacremento State and the UFL than Ponder has in the NFL. The reality is, NFL GM's don't make decisions based purely on emotion and don't have the emotional attachment to or hatred of players that fans do.

And where did I say anything like that? I said everyone knew #7 stunk, yet we kept him on the roster. So develop another QB that maybe can learn HOW TO PLAY THE QB POSISTION. Nothing to do with hatred, everything to do with talent and potential.

[Purple Reign]

To say I don't like #7 would be putting it mildly. My question is, why is he on this team? When we let MBT go and kept Ponder, I said it should have been the other way around. And everyone here laughed at me. My reasoning was, why not develop a young talent, while we hope we will never use the 3rd string QB. Even Rickie knew #7 stunk, yet he stuck with him. Dumping his 3-4 million means nothing to the Wilf's. That's like 5 bucks to us.

I'm sure if there wasn't a salary cap then Ponder wouldn't still be with the team. I agree that 3-4 million doesn't mean anything to the Wilf's, but it does mean something for the salary cap. The 3-4 million would still count against the cap as well as the salary for who ever they would have brought in the replace him. I'm pretty sure that is the main reason he is still on the team.

[DK Sweets]

And where did I say anything like that? I said everyone knew #7 stunk, yet we kept him on the roster. So develop another QB that maybe can learn HOW TO PLAY THE QB POSISTION. Nothing to do with hatred, everything to do with talent and potential.

But you did say that you would have kept MBT over Ponder, which makes sense as to why maembe said GMs don't make decisions based on emotions. maembe wasn't implying that you thought GMs do this; he was implying that you were doing this.

[HardcoreVikesFan]

Well, let's be honest: Ponder is a third stringer who, quite frankly, played like a third-stringer. The best thing will be after this season when we can finally just cut bait with him. I am so sick of these pointless debates. Ponder sucks, but must there always be a consistent dialogue about him on this board?