Fire Spielman too?

[Pondering Her Percy]

Good analysis Mondry!! I agree it is very very hard to find a legitimate franchise QB anymore. In regards to Foles and Wilson....neither were talked about much at all coming into that draft. That year they were both just "another quarterback" that had a medium-low chance of doing anything in the NFL and they both proved everyone wrong. Finding guys like that is just as hard as well.

Bridgewater is going to be that one solid one this year I believe. Also, I really can't stand the guy but something is telling me Manziel will end up being good. I hate to say it but I'm starting to get that sense.

Outside of that, I'm starting to ween away from Carr. Bortles is a possibility and Garappolo could be a late round sleeper. You could throw McCarron, Mettenberger, and Murray into that mix but they are big IF's. I was really high on Boyd for a while but he took a pretty serious drop.

My Big Board for 2014 QB's would consist of:
1.) Bridgewater
2.) Manziel
3.) Bortles
4.) Carr
5.) Hundley (if he comes out)
6.) Garoppolo
7.) Boyd
8.) McCarron
9.) Mettenberger
10.) Murray

Side note: I will be doing another mock offseason after Sunday's game!!

[mondry]

My Big Board for 2014 QB's would consist of:
1.) Bridgewater
2.) Manziel
3.) Bortles
4.) Carr
5.) Hundley (if he comes out)
6.) Garoppolo
7.) Boyd
8.) McCarron
9.) Mettenberger
10.) Murray

And when you look at that list, how you pick the 1 or maybe 2 guys that will succeed out of that bunch is just beyond me. Obviously Bridgewater is the easy choice but after that? 2-5 could all be busts and then some random guy like Garoppolo becomes the best pro.

One of the names I find interesting from my list is Matt Barkley. If he declares in 2012 he might have been the #2 or #3 pick, instead he plays another year, has a bad one, think he got hurt maybe too? and sure enough falls way down. I feel like if you could just see one extra year of a lot of these QB's it would tell you a LOT.

[Pondering Her Percy]

And when you look at that list, how you pick the 1 or maybe 2 guys that will succeed out of that bunch is just beyond me. Obviously Bridgewater is the easy choice but after that? 2-5 could all be busts and then some random guy like Garoppolo becomes the best pro.

One of the names I find interesting from my list is Matt Barkley. If he declares in 2012 he might have been the #2 or #3 pick, instead he plays another year, has a bad one, think he got hurt maybe too? and sure enough falls way down. I feel like if you could just see one extra year of a lot of these QB's it would tell you a LOT.

Exactly. It's very hard to figure out who will be the next best QB outside of Bridgewater. Also, when it comes to Barkley, I remember last year when Barkley and Geno were both GUARANTEED to go 1st and 2nd overall for the longest time. Just about every mock draft I saw had them going 1 and 2. Then they both take a turn for the worst and drop way down everyone's boards. I truly believe there is no tougher pick than a QB

[PurpleKoolaid]

What's up with people thinking the gimmick, midget JFB, is going to convert to the nfl? Havent you seen enough of QBs leaving the pocket early for no reason?

[S197]

I think so too but that neglect of the defense is precisely why Spielman should be taking some heat and why Frazier should be getting some slack. I'm not saying Slick Rick should be fired but it's time to take an increasingly hard look at the job he's done so far and I think he has to be held every bit as accountable for this dreadful season as the coaching staff does.

I don't know that it's neglect, it's more the fact that less defensive players have panned out than on offense. By my count, over the last five years, they drafted 7 offensive players and 6 defensive players in the first 3 rounds. Admittedly, this past draft helped the defense catchup to that number but on the flip side, if we extend out an extra year, you also see a draft where they traded for Jared Allen and took Tyrell Johnson (so no offensive players). All in all, it looks pretty even to me over an extended period.

Given that relative balance, I don't think Frazier deserves any slack because he is a major component in who gets drafted on the defensive side. I'm not trying to absolve Spielman but clearly the problem isn't neglecting the defense in the draft, it's the poor evaluation/scouting of those drafted and the inability to coach them up. Now how much blame you assign to Frazier for the evaluation and scouting process is up for debate but it's pretty clear his fingerprints are all over this defense, from scheme to personnel.

[Mothman]

I don't know that it's neglect, it's more the fact that less defensive players have panned out than on offense. By my count, over the last five years, they drafted 7 offensive players and 6 defensive players in the first 3 rounds. Admittedly, this past draft helped the defense catchup to that number but on the flip side, if we extend out an extra year, you also see a draft where they traded for Jared Allen and took Tyrell Johnson (so no offensive players). All in all, it looks pretty even to me over an extended period.

When I used the word neglect, I was referring primarily to the post-Childress years.

Given that relative balance, I don't think Frazier deserves any slack because he is a major component in who gets drafted on the defensive side. I'm not trying to absolve Spielman but clearly the problem isn't neglecting the defense in the draft, it's the poor evaluation/scouting of those drafted and the inability to coach them up.

We weren't just talking about the draft. Spielman's job extends well beyond the draft but as you know, I agree that talent evaluation/scouting is a big part of the problem and that's Spielman's department.

Frazier's role probably doesn't matter now anyway. He is likely gone in two days and then it will be Spielman's ship to sail and there will be nowhere to hide if things go awry. Hopefully, they won't and Spielman and the next coach will be hoisting a Lombardi trophy in the near future.

Man, just typing that out made me realize how unlikely it sounds.

[PurpleKoolaid]

Yeah. Just one before I die.
But I don't think my heart can take another '98 or 09.

[Purple bruise]

Pro Sports Daily: http://www.prosportsdaily.com/articles/ ... 82193.html

It's looking like Percy Harvin's season with the Seattle Seahawks never will get off the ground.
NFL Media Insider Ian Rapoport reported on NFL Network's "NFL GameDay First" that it's doubtful Harvin will play any time soon and it's looking like he'll end the year on injured reserve, according to two sources with direct knowledge of the injuries.
Harvin's hip still is sore and hasn't improved.
Another stupid move by Spielman, should have kept Percy at any cost

[Pondering Her Percy]

Pro Sports Daily: http://www.prosportsdaily.com/articles/ ... 82193.html

It's looking like Percy Harvin's season with the Seattle Seahawks never will get off the ground.
NFL Media Insider Ian Rapoport reported on NFL Network's "NFL GameDay First" that it's doubtful Harvin will play any time soon and it's looking like he'll end the year on injured reserve, according to two sources with direct knowledge of the injuries.
Harvin's hip still is sore and hasn't improved.
Another stupid move by Spielman, should have kept Percy at any cost

I agree. Many were so mad for letting Percy go but not only is he a problem child but he can't stay healthy either. He's sitting at home collecting a fat paycheck from Seattle and isn't even seeing the field. I couldn't have been happier when Spielman traded him. Especially when he received wayyy more value for him than anyone thought he would. Great move by Spielman

[VikingLord]

I mean no offense, but I really wish everybody who wants to make the modern NFL all about QB performance would wake up to the fact that it simply isn't all about QB performance. That's a media-driven fantasy. Yes, good play at that position is critical to winning a championship but it takes much more than Aaron Rodgers to make a team a real Super Bowl contender and much more than good QB play to make any team a Super Bowl contender.

OK, let's look at this from a different direction.

Do you agree with Spielman's approach the to QB position so far? Could that have been handled better in your opinion, or has Spielman done as well as could be expected? Is he just a victim of circumstances beyond his control?

As far as the QB position goes, of course it's not all about that position, but I would say a team can't be in contention for a Superbowl without at least competence at that position even if it's stacked everywhere else. As a result, it's the single most important position a GM has to address. And that begs the question for Spielman - has he done the best job possible at the position?

[Mothman]

OK, let's look at this from a different direction.

Do you agree with Spielman's approach the to QB position so far? Could that have been handled better in your opinion, or has Spielman done as well as could be expected? Is he just a victim of circumstances beyond his control?

No, I don't agree with the way he's handled it and I don't consider him a victim of circumstance. His options have been limited since 2011 but he's had some options. Of course, hindsight makes seeing some of those options easier but I think he could have done more and handled the position better. My big complaint isn't drafting Ponder or signing Freeman but rather the lack of better preparation in case Ponder didn't pan out. They could end up in the same situation this offseason that they faced in 2011 and there's simply no excuse for that.

As far as the QB position goes, of course it's not all about that position, but I would say a team can't be in contention for a Superbowl without at least competence at that position even if it's stacked everywhere else. As a result, it's the single most important position a GM has to address.

I agree with all of that. Well said.

[MrPurplenGold]

No, I don't agree with the way he's handled it and I don't consider him a victim of circumstance. His options have been limited since 2011 but he's had some options. Of course, hindsight makes seeing some of those options easier but I think he could have done more and handled the position better. My big complaint isn't drafting Ponder or signing Freeman but rather the lack of better preparation in case Ponder didn't pan out. They could end up in the same situation this offseason that they faced in 2011 and there's simply no excuse for that.

He said Ponder was going to get 3 years and he got 3 years. You can criticize just about every GM in the league if that's the case. Teams "typically" don't draft 1st round QBs then continuously draft high round QBs within the next 2 years.

[Mothman]

He said Ponder was going to get 3 years and he got 3 years. You can criticize just about every GM in the league if that's the case. Teams "typically" don't draft 1st round QBs then continuously draft high round QBs within the next 2 years.

Who suggested they should have done that?

It's certainly not unheard of for a team to spend a third or 4th round pick on a QB when they have a young incumbent but what other teams do is irrelevant. A GM has to base his choices on the circumstances of his team and the Vikings circumstances the last few years have suggested it might be wise to have a young QB on the depth chart with a chance to become a starter down the road if Ponder didn't pan out. They don't have one and now they may end up being caught with their pants down.

[MrPurplenGold]

Who suggested they should have done that?

It's certainly not unheard of for a team to spend a third or 4th round pick on a QB when they have a young incumbent but what other teams do is irrelevant. A GM has to base his choices on the circumstances of his team and the Vikings circumstances the last few years have suggested it might be wise to have a young QB on the depth chart with a chance to become a starter down the road if Ponder didn't pan out. They don't have one and now they may end up being caught with their pants down.

I will give you this year, but how did the circumstances from 2011-2012 or the circumstances from 2012 to 2013 dictate that? So you give up on Ponder after one full year as the starter? Even last year they brought in the Veteran Matt Cassell in case Ponder faltered. I'm not a Ponder supporter but hindsight is 20/20

[Mothman]

I will give you this year, but how did the circumstances from 2011-2012 or the circumstances from 2012 to 2013 dictate that? So you give up on Ponder after one full year as the starter?

No, I wasn't suggesting that at all. I'm saying you put a better backup plan in place than Webb and MBT, someone with a legitimate chance to become a long term starter if Ponder doesn't pan out by year 3. What you don't do is put yourself in the position they're in now, with Ponder unequivocally benched, and yet the only QB on the roster they can be certain will be back next year (if they want him). They have no young alternative with any NFL experience and they have no veteran signed to step in except Cassel, who has the freedom to move on if he chooses. They're basically right back where they started 3 years ago.

Even last year they brought in the Veteran Matt Cassell in case Ponder faltered. I'm not a Ponder supporter but hindsight is 20/20

This isn't hindsight. I've been saying it since 2011. Heck, I was saying it back in 2006 when Childress put all his eggs in the TJ basket. If possible, a team should always have a young QB with genuine NFL potential on their depth chart, even if the starter is in his first few years, like Ponder. It's just smart to have a Plan B in place if Plan A fails and in the NFL PLan A can fail at any time.