Check Down Charlie

[Lash Man]

Well, I was at the Cards game today and I must say I stand by my first post that Ponder sucks. I think the no separation from receivers excuse is baloney. My son and I counted at least 5 times Ponder had a wide open receiver and he decided to happy feet it instead (Harvin,Aroma, and Burton examples). It is like he does not even look down field or is too scared to throw the ball. And the PI call which was the biggest pass play of the game he overthrew Simpson by 15 yards. All I can see Ponder do is pass the horizontal check down with Harvin making YAC. He has no vertical ability whatsoever from what I have seen thus far. 58 yards passing and a QB rating of 35. Wow.

Kudos to Robison, Smith, Winfiield, JA, and the rest of the defense they won this game hands down.

I was a huge Ponder fan when we drafted him because I heard so much about his intelligence and ability to learn but what I am seeing lately is TJoke redeux without the arm strength . I hope CP can improve but I am now having great reservations about his upside .

[purplehaze]

I think you've exaggerated this by about 12 yards.
I, too, have had doubts about Ponder's deep ball, so I concentrated on that deep throw today.
On TV you could clearly see the ball land right in front of Simpson, which means no overthrow since the DB held him.
If it was really overthrown by 15 yards I don't think PI could have been called.

There was plenty from Ponder to criticize today, but not this throw.

You are right, his arm is not that strong.

[Arma]

You are right, his arm is not that strong.

C'mon man, bashing that is actually real and not some made up hate is fine, but that deep ball was just fine and you are just trying to stir something up.

[purplehaze]

C'mon man, bashing that is actually real and not some made up hate is fine, but that deep ball was just fine and you are just trying to stir something up.

Made up hate? I don't hate anyone bro. I just try to call it like I see it.

[Arma]

Made up hate? I don't hate anyone bro. I just try to call it like I see it.

I consider over exaggerating overthrowing Simpson, even though it wasn't overthrown, to be made up hate.

[purplehaze]

I consider over exaggerating overthrowing Simpson, even though it wasn't overthrown, to be made up hate.

If I hated Ponder I would consider him an enemy. And from where my seats were it looked to be overthrown considerably. I would compare my exaggeration of his overthrown ball to the exaggeration from some on this board that our receivers cannot get open.

[Delaqure]

OK if our receivers are getting open and not getting the ball the question is why not? There are only two answers that I can see:
(1 Ponder is not going through his reads properly (including perhaps taking too long)
(2 Ponder is not getting enough time to go through the reads.

Which one is it?

[Demi]

Clearly 1. He stares receivers down. And it's almost comical how his entire body shifts when he moves on to the next read...before scrambling from imagined pressure repeatedly.

Even if he made the right read and had a receiver open deep, he doesn't have the confidence, or arm, to get it to them.

[Delaqure]

I totally disagree with the arm strength comment, but you may very well be correct on the confidence. I don't know that it's "clearly" number 1. You may be right, but I really wish we had expert analysis on this.

[petev_sj]

Ponder at this point in his career is still a project. He definitely stares down his receivers, the game is still moving too fast for him.

And here is my but for not giving up on the kid:

Jacksonville: Drove the team down field for the win in less then 1 minute.
Indy: Two TD in the fourth quarter to tie it up before defense lost the game.
Washington: TD and 2 pointer that put the team within 3 point before the defense allowed RG3 the 70 yard run.

Ponder has shown when the team needs him to drive them down the field. He can do it. I'm on the Ponder bandwagon until the end. He deserves that for all the effort he is giving to the team.

[purplehaze]

Clearly 1. He stares receivers down. And it's almost comical how his entire body shifts when he moves on to the next read...before scrambling from imagined pressure repeatedly.

Even if he made the right read and had a receiver open deep, he doesn't have the confidence, or arm, to get it to them.

Damn Dem I think you are pretty much spot on. Have not always agreed with you in the past but my sentiments exactly. Especially your comment "scrambling from imagine pressure repeatedly". This is the root of his problems IMO and exactly what I saw today at the game. Same thing Vikinglord pointed out before.

[Mothman]

OK if our receivers are getting open and not getting the ball the question is why not? There are only two answers that I can see:
(1 Ponder is not going through his reads properly (including perhaps taking too long)
(2 Ponder is not getting enough time to go through the reads.

Which one is it?

Overall, the receivers don't do a good job of getting open down the field. They simply don't. I don't know if they did today but over the course of the season thus far, for the most part they have not been good at getting open. There are plays where Ponder doesn't have time and probably plays where he misses a read but he is NOT failing to see open receivers all the time.

It's important to remember that it's not enough for receivers to get open, they need to be open at the right time. If a QB is going through a progression read, the receiver needs to be open when the QB looks his way. If he breaks free afterward, it's too late. It's also important to remember that there are two kinds of reads: progression reads and coverage reads. In the latter, the QB decides where to throw based on the coverage he sees. The behavior of the defense determines his choice.

In progression reads (which can lead to QBs staring down receivers, something Ponder does at times), the QB is supposed to pre-read the coverage and then go through a sequence of options, throwing to the first open choice. Consequently, the third or fourth receiver in the progression might be wide open but if someone earlier in the progression was open, the ball has probably been thrown already.

So, on plays where receivers are getting open and not getting the ball, it could be because Ponder isn't getting time, because he's not going through his reads properly , because someone earlier in his read progression was open and got the ball, or because the receiver came open too late.

[PurpleMustReign]

Overall, the receivers don't do a good job of getting open down the field. They simply don't. I don't know if they did today but over the course of the season thus far, for the most part they have not been good at getting open. There are plays where Ponder doesn't have time and probably plays where he misses a read but he is NOT failing to see open receivers all the time.

It's important to remember that it's not enough for receivers to get open, they need to be open at the right time. If a QB is going through a progression read, the receiver needs to be open when the QB looks his way. If he breaks free afterward, it's too late. It's also important to remember that there are two kinds of reads: progression reads and coverage reads. In the latter, the QB decides where to throw based on the coverage he sees. The behavior of the defense determines his choice.

In progression reads (which can lead to QBs staring down receivers, something Ponder does at times), the QB is supposed to pre-read the coverage and then go through a sequence of options, throwing to the first open choice. Consequently, the third or fourth receiver in the progression might be wide open but if someone earlier in the progression was open, the ball has probably been thrown already.

So, on plays where receivers are getting open and not getting the ball, it could be because Ponder isn't getting time, because he's not going through his reads properly , because someone earlier in his read progression was open and got the ball, or because the receiver came open too late.

Did Aromashodu play today? He really is the only receiver other than Harvin that has been open at some points this season.

[purplehaze]

Did Aromashodu play today? He really is the only receiver other than Harvin that has been open at some points this season.

Yes, Aroma played. In fact, my 13 year old son yelled at me and pointed out that he was wide open on the sideline but I think Ponder was scambling and either got sacked or threw an incomplete pass from what I remember. (it was 3rd quarter I believe)

[PurpleKoolaid]

I wonder if people base their opion that the WRs aernt open or dont run good routes based on Pnder doesnt throw to them for a completion. Cause that would be wrong. Ive seen guys open, as Ponders happy feeet are moving the second his first read wasnt open.