Mothman wrote:
... unless, of course, that QB turned out to be good!
It will be interesting to see how it all plays out.
Maybe, but I really think it would be a disaster. The defense HAS to be the major focus here so if we trade our 1st, 2nd, and 3rd to move up and get a QB, what are the odds he's a Russel Wilson and can make an immediate and big difference, enough to "carry" the team? I say carry because if we aren't putting up 30 points a game we're in trouble!
So even if the QB pans out in the long run, I'm not sure Spielman can survive another 3-13 or 5-11 type year and ignoring the defense AGAIN. The QB may work in the long run but then Spielman would probably be gone before he could mature! lol.
No one had brought up moving up, but it is a viable strategy given the importance of QB. I brought it up to voice the defensive concerns such a move would likely exasperate.
Jim, IMO Cassel provides excellent insurance for the team given the need at QB. He provides some stability even if not great play at the position. Also, I think we have to look at where the franchise is at from a macro view. They are bringing in a new HC which means said HC is probably going to have some latitude in season one to adjust the culture / scheme to his liking. That would imply patience with some growing pains should they occur. How much patience is a big question, the team is already into a rebuild and has gotten quite young. However with QB unsettled there ARE going to be some growing pains.
This draft is curious to me. At Pick #8 you have to wonder if going QB is the best move if the guys you want are not available. Can Spielman afford to trade up to get “that guy”? Can he afford not to? Very interesting situation. The one certainty I see right now is that if we lose Cassel the Vikings almost HAVE to draft a QB no matter what. That is not a good place to be IMO.
Winning is not a sometime thing it is an all of the time thing - Vince Lombardi
mansquatch wrote:No one had brought up moving up, but it is a viable strategy given the importance of QB. I brought it up to voice the defensive concerns such a move would likely exasperate.
Jim, IMO Cassel provides excellent insurance for the team given the need at QB. He provides some stability even if not great play at the position. Also, I think we have to look at where the franchise is at from a macro view. They are bringing in a new HC which means said HC is probably going to have some latitude in season one to adjust the culture / scheme to his liking. That would imply patience with some growing pains should they occur. How much patience is a big question, the team is already into a rebuild and has gotten quite young. However with QB unsettled there ARE going to be some growing pains.
This draft is curious to me. At Pick #8 you have to wonder if going QB is the best move if the guys you want are not available. Can Spielman afford to trade up to get “that guy”? Can he afford not to? Very interesting situation. The one certainty I see right now is that if we lose Cassel the Vikings almost HAVE to draft a QB no matter what. That is not a good place to be IMO.
They have to draft a QB no matter what anyway but they don't have to draft one in the top 10 or even in the first round. At pick #8, it's usually (always?) advisable to pick the best player available, the player who can help the team most going forward, not to select a QB just because you need one. The only reason to select a QB there is because they feel he's truly worth the pick and can become a quality starter for years to come.
Regarding Cassel: he's a mediocre journeyman QB. There's value in that and there's value in keeping him. All I'm saying is that he's not a "must keep" player and it probably wouldn't be a good thing for the Vikings if he ended up as their starter for a few years. I'm just suggesting flexibility. Spielman shouldn't view Cassel as a player they have to bring back in 2014 but he should absolutely make sure they have a veteran QB on the roster. It could be Cassel but maybe there will be a better option.
About the only spot that I really research before the draft is the QB. I was in shock when we picked Ponder. Spielman was obviously in panic mode when the QBs he had targeted were gone. I just don't see him doing that again. I would love to see him work out a deal for Teddy. It would cost us a lot, but he is solid. Everyone else is a huge reach with our first Pick. heck, 'experts' now are saying Bortles is a top 5 pick. Some are saying Jimmy is a top 10 pick. We could pick up Mack or Nix with our first, and still stand a chance at getting one of the better QBs.
I think they are better off having Cassell start. He gives you a 2-4 year window of most likely average QB play depending on how the draft plays out. If they let him go they absolutely have to draft a QB and then you are sitting in a situation of starting the rookie or starting Ponder. That situation is terrible, especially if there is a run on QBs in this draft and at 8 they get the 6th or 7th best QB. At that point they should draft something else and then you have to ask do you want a 2nd round or 3rd round QB pick starting week 1? My guess is the answer is no. To me that is why you keep Cassell.
I have no illusions about what Cassel is, I just do not want to create a situation where the GM is forced to draft need like they were in 2011. Also, if there is a run at QB then that means the top 2-3 players at every other position are available when we pick.
Winning is not a sometime thing it is an all of the time thing - Vince Lombardi
Given our draft position, I sincerely hope that Minnesota doesn't take a QB eighth overall. BPA all the way. Take a QB later. I will gladly suffer through another bad QB season as long as we don't force the QB in the draft.
A Randy Moss fan for life. A Kevin Williams fan for life.
mansquatch wrote:I think they are better off having Cassell start. He gives you a 2-4 year window of most likely average QB play depending on how the draft plays out. If they let him go they absolutely have to draft a QB and then you are sitting in a situation of starting the rookie or starting Ponder. That situation is terrible, especially if there is a run on QBs in this draft and at 8 they get the 6th or 7th best QB. At that point they should draft something else and then you have to ask do you want a 2nd round or 3rd round QB pick starting week 1? My guess is the answer is no. To me that is why you keep Cassell.
I have no illusions about what Cassel is, I just do not want to create a situation where the GM is forced to draft need like they were in 2011. Also, if there is a run at QB then that means the top 2-3 players at every other position are available when we pick.
I understand all of that but you're talking about Cassel as if he's a reasonable choice to start for 2-4 years and that's a pretty different story than keeping him as a backup/safety net for a season.
My point is simple: they need a veteran option. It doesn't have to be Cassel. The veteran option is the must, not Matt Cassel. Frankly, based on his performance this year, they should be looking to do better than Cassel if they can. For all the vitriol we saw aimed at Ponder this season, it was Cassel who started at QB in 3 of the Vikings 4 least productive offensive performances (Freeman started in the other). That speaks volumes.
You are right Jim, but as has been said on here countless times, who is this great veteran QB that is going to come in and be better than Cassell? That guy is probably already on another team and they are not going to let him go!
NFL teams rarely let a quality QB get free. You could attempt to bid up the likes of Jay Cutler (or Josh McCown), but that is probably about it.
Cassel is a viable "stop gap" until they get a new young guy in here. No he isn't perfect, but again, which Free Agent QB is perfect? IMO, the answer is there isn't one. What I want to avoid is another 2011 where they have nobody and absolutely have to take a QB.
Winning is not a sometime thing it is an all of the time thing - Vince Lombardi
mansquatch wrote:You are right Jim, but as has been said on here countless times, who is this great veteran QB that is going to come in and be better than Cassell? That guy is probably already on another team and they are not going to let him go!
I didn't say he'd be great.
NFL teams rarely let a quality QB get free. You could attempt to bid up the likes of Jay Cutler (or Josh McCown), but that is probably about it.
Cassel is a viable "stop gap" until they get a new young guy in here. No he isn't perfect, but again, which Free Agent QB is perfect? IMO, the answer is there isn't one. What I want to avoid is another 2011 where they have nobody and absolutely have to take a QB.
I want them to avoid that too. What I'm trying to say here is that it would be a mistake to view Cassel as a player they must retain or to view him as a viable starter for 2+ years. He's done nothing to merit that sort of commitment and his upside is too low. I'm not suggesting the Vikings are going to find a long term answer to their QB problems in free agency. I'm simply saying Cassel is not a "must keep" player. There will likely be a QB of comparable quality available should he choose to depart.
The Vikings probably have to draft a QB regardless of what happens with Cassel. They've already put themselves in that position. Unless they trade for one or there's a very surprising development in free agency, drafting a QB is probably the real "must". It's just a question of who and when.
mansquatch wrote:I think they are better off having Cassell start. He gives you a 2-4 year window of most likely average QB play depending on how the draft plays out. If they let him go they absolutely have to draft a QB and then you are sitting in a situation of starting the rookie or starting Ponder. That situation is terrible, especially if there is a run on QBs in this draft and at 8 they get the 6th or 7th best QB. At that point they should draft something else and then you have to ask do you want a 2nd round or 3rd round QB pick starting week 1? My guess is the answer is no. To me that is why you keep Cassell.
I have no illusions about what Cassel is, I just do not want to create a situation where the GM is forced to draft need like they were in 2011. Also, if there is a run at QB then that means the top 2-3 players at every other position are available when we pick.
I think they absolutely have to draft a QB next year even if Cassell comes back. Cassell isn't the future of the franchise and the Vikings don't need to put off drafting one just because they have what could be a serviceable starter. Now that doesn't mean they have to draft one in the first round. I think there could be 3 QB's off the board by the time the Vikings pick and I don't want them to pick up the 4th best QB just because they need one. I think they can wait until the 2nd or 3rd round and go after QBs like AJ McCarron, Mettenberger or Aaron Murray. I think Mettenberger in particular would be intriguing depending on who our OC is. Mettenberger just came out of a pro-style system with Cam Cameron as the OC at LSU and has a cannon for an Arm. AJ McCarron I think has all the intangibles but I question his physical ability and Aaron Murray I think is good at everything but not great at anything.
One thing we're completely ignoring though is that Cassell can opt out of his contract and he may decide to do this based on how the Vikings handled the QB situation this year. That may open up the door for Josh Freeman to come back, because I can't see anyone realistically vying for his services either.
I was recently looking through the Vikings draft history and MAN OH MAN, I still can't get over how bad the 2004 and 2005 drafts were. They might be the two grossest drafts in draft history
2004 Draft
1 20 20 Kenechi Udeze
2 16 48 Dontarrious Thomas
3 25 88 Darrion Scott
4 19 115 Nat Dorsey
4 23 119 Mewelde Moore
5 23 155 Rod Davis
6 19 184 Deandre' Eiland
7 19 220 Jeff Dugan
2005 Draft
1 7 7 Troy Williamson
1 18 18 Erasmus James
2 17 49 Marcus Johnson
3 16 80 Dustin Fox
4 11 112 Ciatrick Fason
6 17 191 C. J. Mosley
7 5 219 Adrian Ward
....woof!! And some of you guys complain about Spielman
The saddest thing in life is wasted talent and the choices you make will shape your life forever.
-Chazz Palminteri
Pondering Her Percy wrote:I was recently looking through the Vikings draft history and MAN OH MAN, I still can't get over how bad the 2004 and 2005 drafts were. They might be the two grossest drafts in draft history
2004 Draft
1 20 20 Kenechi Udeze
2 16 48 Dontarrious Thomas
3 25 88 Darrion Scott
4 19 115 Nat Dorsey
4 23 119 Mewelde Moore
5 23 155 Rod Davis
6 19 184 Deandre' Eiland
7 19 220 Jeff Dugan
2005 Draft
1 7 7 Troy Williamson
1 18 18 Erasmus James
2 17 49 Marcus Johnson
3 16 80 Dustin Fox
4 11 112 Ciatrick Fason
6 17 191 C. J. Mosley
7 5 219 Adrian Ward
....woof!! And some of you guys complain about Spielman
it's pretty sad when Mewelde Moore and Jeff Dugan are the best players drafted by a team in two years
saint33 wrote:
it's pretty sad when Mewelde Moore and Jeff Dugan are the best players drafted by a team in two years
Hahaha that's exactly what I was thinking. It's even worse that we had two first round picks in 2005 and still couldn't make anything of it.
Also, I follow the Vikings drafts very closely but never realized we drafted CJ Mosely.....it would be pretty ironic if we drafted CJ Mosely (The LB) this year
But yeah....about those two drafts......
The saddest thing in life is wasted talent and the choices you make will shape your life forever.
-Chazz Palminteri
mansquatch wrote:I think they are better off having Cassell start. He gives you a 2-4 year window of most likely average QB play depending on how the draft plays out. If they let him go they absolutely have to draft a QB and then you are sitting in a situation of starting the rookie or starting Ponder. That situation is terrible, especially if there is a run on QBs in this draft and at 8 they get the 6th or 7th best QB. At that point they should draft something else and then you have to ask do you want a 2nd round or 3rd round QB pick starting week 1? My guess is the answer is no. To me that is why you keep Cassell.
I have no illusions about what Cassel is, I just do not want to create a situation where the GM is forced to draft need like they were in 2011. Also, if there is a run at QB then that means the top 2-3 players at every other position are available when we pick.
I agree, if you put an average QB with a RB rushing for 2500+ yards per season, the offense is taken care of. Just need to fix the D and the Vikes will be contenders!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
HardcoreVikesFan wrote:Given our draft position, I sincerely hope that Minnesota doesn't take a QB eighth overall. BPA all the way. Take a QB later. I will gladly suffer through another bad QB season as long as we don't force the QB in the draft.
This. They already went panic mode with Ponder and we saw how that ripped into three years of this franchise. Even though we all want a franchise Q as soon as possible, I'd rather be patient and figure out another route then waste an 8th overall pick on a project or a dud. This team has other holes that an 8th pick and service.
