Is it Ponder or the O line

[The Breeze]

It's the coaching first and foremost. What we have is a regression in every facet of the game right now. Yes, there are key areas of deficiency within the players but when you have such widespread dysfunction, you need to look further up the chain of command. It's no different than any other business. I think the only person on the team that doesn't look like he's taken a step back is Blair Walsh. Everyone else to some degree has regressed. Offense, defense, and special teams, it's bad everywhere. That's just a horrible sign of leadership. When there's something this wrong, you start at the top and work your way down. If a bank lost $50 million dollars in a year, they wouldn't be arguing over whether it's the teller or the loan officer's fault, the CEO would be given his walking papers.

The expression, "those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it" rings true. Vikings fans are spewing their venom at Ponder and Musgrave exactly like they did at Tarvaris and Bevell. The root of the problem is we never really got rid of all of the problem in the first place and until that's done, the pawns will change but the game stays the same.

I agree. The pilot light has gone out for this team.

[NextQuestion]

You've got decent WRs and a "pro bowl" TE. Get the ball out of your hands quicker.

[The Breeze]

Wow....some of the comments here are just strange.

For those bringing up Aaron Rodgers, look no further than yesterday. His line gave him little protection which affected his timing with receivers.
Yet the bengals turned the ball over a ton a left the Packers in the game.

Buuuut....when it came down to the final 3 minutes and GB is down 4 with the ball, Rodgers and the Pack got crushed by the Bengal defense playing on it's home field.

Sure, Ponder isn't the best QB. He could've done more and they could be 2-1.....but this team isn't going to do squat until they fix their line problems on both sides. And the defense from top to bottom has played as bad as I have ever seen it...period.

Denying that is burying one's head in the sand.

[allday1991]

Clearly I stated that a better QB could be winning the games for us (getting up 10-14 points before the last drive or winning on the last drive).
Even with the turnovers, the Vikings were WINNING the past two games with 1 minute left in the 4th.
Sure, the turnovers played a role in only being up 3 or 6 points, but with the game on the line - the defense has just melted.

Using your logic, Peterson's turnovers would play just as much of a role as Ponder's turnovers - so he is part of the problem as well.

This is the same argument that fans have when a ref makes a mistake, yet the team has the ability to still win or gains the lead throughout the game and, ultimately, loses. I'm in the camp that says if a ref makes a wrong call or clearly misses a call yet the Vikings are able to take the lead or have a chance at winning and blow it - it's on the Vikings, not the refs. (Unless we're talking Seattle v. Green Bay last year which was bonkers).

1. I see a big difference in Petersons and Ponders turnovers. Peterson only had one which wasn't his fault the defender laid a helmet perfectly on the ball as he was spinning. We can argue about if the Browns linebacker made a good play or Ponder made a bad throw, however the pick sick was all his fault. ( I don't care if Jennings said whatever to try to keep his qbs confidence up. watch the tape he stairs down simpson the whole route and was easily jumped.) Ponder had 3 turnovers to a.ps one, hardly comparable.
2. You're so quick to blame the defense for loses because we are leading at the end but don't consider the game before. If Ponder doesn't throw an immediate pick 6 and last say a.p fumbles instead which gives our defence a chance to make it a field goal. Also our offence had something like 4 turnovers and our defence almost makes up by getting us 3 turnovers back, if we didn't have 4 turnovers on offence we win, if we didn't have 3 turnovers on defence its a blow out for the browns....all signs point to offence.

[mondry]

The defense gave up 7 points in the last 37 minutes yesterday. They are tied for first in INT's and 4th in fumble recoveries, yet their turnover ratio is 0. Don't you think the offense committing 10 turnovers (no matter who's at fault) has some effect on points allowed?

Well said, that's where I am as well, last year if the offense committed turn overs we would all expect to lose. This year the offensive is turning it over regularly and guess what, we're losing! The defense is giving up more sure, but they're also taking WAY more, which I think is a fair trade. The offense just hasn't capitalized enough.

[King James]

The Vikings will be better off just by running a wildcat package directly to Peterson for the rest of the season.

[Mothman]

The defense gave up 7 points in the last 37 minutes yesterday. They are tied for first in INT's and 4th in fumble recoveries, yet their turnover ratio is 0. Don't you think the offense committing 10 turnovers (no matter who's at fault) has some effect on points allowed?

Of course it does. So does actually allowing 11 TDs (9 through the air) and almost 430 yards per game. When you put the yards allowed per game with the points allowed by the defense, it becomes very clear that their problems can't be put on the offense. There's no denying that the performance of each unit impacts the others and there's absolutely no point in trying to absolve any of them of blame or even in shifting more blame on one than the other. All 3 have struggled mightily at times this year. They've all been highly effective at times too.

The defense gave up 7 points in the final 37 minutes yesterday but unfortunately, football games are 60 minutes long and they gave up 17 more points prior to that. they're tied for the league lead in INTs but they're also leading the league in passing TDs allowed.

The Vikings are 7th in the league in scoring too but they're still 0-3.

[Funkytown]

...both?

And was it just me, or did the Browns o-line look beastly compared to ours? Geez. Top 10 o-line in the league or what?

Ponder needs smacked around a bit, but oh my god...it's hard to do anything when you are being mauled. I read something earlier about Peterson being upset about the fans booing Ponder, and they said that Ponder was sacked 6 times and hit another 8? Something like that? Yeah. That's awesome. And all the fans wanting him to throw deeper passes...ha, hard to do when he's got people on top of him before his receivers get off the freaking line of scrimmage!

Regardless, Ponder is going to get blamed no matter what happens. I get that. He is a huge part of the problem, and at this point I'm actually just CURIOUS how Cassel would do behind that line. I wonder if his quick thinking and confidence would make a difference. I want Ponder to be the guy, but dang it, I just want to see what someone else looks like back there. If they get murdered too, then we'll have more answers....until then we'll just have to wonder and play the blame game.

[Webbfann]

Look. We had the final chance. We batted the bottom of the 9th, as the home team. Their rookie QB came through in the clutch for a HUGE win, despite being quite shaky at times. He did his job when it counted. Our 3 year veteran came out and not only didn't get the job done, he looked like he didn't even know what the job was. He looked like a rookie trying to get us in position for a field goal. You can't blame him for all the defenses woes, but you can clearly blame him for not being an NFL caliber QB. Even allowing for Musgrave's appalling offensive scheme he is not an NFL starting caliber QB.

When he started that last drive I was rooting for him, hoping this would be a defining moment that turns him around. But a third string QB clearly outplayed him, and this was a pretty typical-even above average-performance for Ponder.

I do give him credit for playing his heart out the last couple games. If this was his first or second season, that would be enough for me to delay judgment. Where was that fire the last 2 years? Its too little too late now, he still doesn't have the smarts.

[Funkytown]

Their rookie QB came through in the clutch for a HUGE win, despite being quite shaky at times.

He's been in the league since '09.

[PurpleKoolaid]

The 'easiest' fix at this point, would be to replace Ponder. I personally want to see if Cassel and MBT are worth keeping as backups. I have seen enough Ponder to be 99% sure he isn't going to change. But at least its just replacing 1 person. Its a start. If the Oline continues to be a problem, Cassel wont last long, so we would get to see both QBs. But watching other games, no OLine looked real good to me. How the QBs handle the pressure is the key.

On D, everything should change next year. Half of the Dline will be gone, as will some of our LBs.

[PurpleKoolaid]

The defense plays bad because they are on the field to much if the TOP was better they wouldn't be so tired.

They have been playing terrible en when they are fresh.

[Raptorman]

He's been in the league since '09.

And spent 3 years behind Brady not learning a thing.

[Raptorman]

No. no they havn't

So you don't consider the following bad?

1st half of the Lions game. The Lions had 269 yards of offense.
1st half of the Bears game. The Bears had 269 yards of offense.
1st half of the Browns game. The Browns had 252 yards offense.

If they aren't fresh in the first half of the game, when are they fresh? At least they are consistent.

[King James]

And spent 3 years behind Brady not learning a thing.

Well he learned how to beat us.