Vikings Message Board.Com

lol you two are both like Philly fans. If things don't go our ways in the playoffs even though the coach/manager has given the team the chance to win and compete every year...fire him. It's always the manager's fault.

So what, lifetime deal? Just let him coach until we fall below .500 regular season? At ANY point should postseason failure dictate his removal? He's 0-11 in the last 11. 0-14 enough? 0-20? 1-40?

Sounds like he should have a lifetime deal as long as he can win a terrible division year in and year out...

thatguy wrote:lol you two are both like Philly fans. If things don't go our ways in the playoffs even though the coach/manager has given the team the chance to win and compete every year...fire him. It's always the manager's fault.

Oh and btw, unless you don't take too much stock in this word...that strikeout would've given us momentum. It's hard for a pitcher to come back and pitch another strike after a perfect pitch that was called a ball. Pavano deserved better...I hope to God we get him back next year.

I'm done replying to you in this thread. We will agree to disagree. I just will never know how 0-11 in the postseason is ok to some people.

PurpleMustReign wrote:

I'm done replying to you in this thread. We will agree to disagree. I just will never know how 0-11 in the postseason is ok to some people.

I understand where you're coming from...but the system is just flat out broken and I doubt that we have a great shot to win unless our payroll continues to grow.

thatguy wrote: I understand where you're coming from...but the system is just flat out broken and I doubt that we have a great shot to win unless our payroll continues to grow.

2007 Indians beat Yankees. 120 million dollar difference in payroll
2006 Tigers beat Yankees 110 million dollar difference in payroll
2005 Angels beat Yankees 101 million dollar difference in payroll
2003 Marlins beat Yankees 101 million dollar difference in payroll

2010 Twins are 109 million difference. Indians, Tigers, Angels, and Marlins all managed to beat them with over a 100 million dollar difference.

thatguy wrote:Defensively, the Yankees are a worse team than the Twins (that's a given)

Not really. They had fewer errors than the Twins this year, and they have a bunch of Gold Glovers.

One thing our team really needs is an undisputed #1 stud ace. The Yanks have Sabathia, Rangers have Lee, Rays have Price, Phils have Halladay, Giants have Lincecum. In some cases, the #2 on those teams is better than anyone in our rotation (Pettite, Oswalt). Meanwhile, we go into the playoffs wondering who our #1 is going to be. Not good. Liriano is getting there, but he's got a ways to go before he's considered a dominant, elite starter. If we would've gotten Lee we would be sitting much better right now.

I hate it, but I'm starting to sour on Gardy. Sure there are other factors like Morneau not being available for the last two post-seasons, or Mauer suddenly becoming Joe-Average. But there comes a point when it all comes down to the manager. At this point, the whole Yankee thing has definitely become a psychological obstacle for the Twins, and if it emanates from Gardy then he needs to go. It sucks to say that, because I like him. I think that's why he's held his job for so long, because he's such a likable guy.

HornedMessiah wrote:One thing our team really needs is an undisputed #1 stud ace.

And that is a front office thing. We had plenty of trade ammo for Lee or Oswalt. Instead we traded for an unneeded closer, who was just as effective as the original one (I'm talking about Raush). They are too worried about the future. Our main players are in their primes now, we need to live in, and deal with, the present. Mauer is locked up for 8 years, and still they are reluctant to trade Ramos, and because they waited so long, all they could get was a closer.
Liriano is a number 2, and always will be. Pavano is a number 3. The rest of them don't deserve to start, although I would take Blackburn as a 4 or 5 I suppose.

Anyway, the first thing I would do is Fire Gardy. The second thing is trade or acquire a #1 Ace.

Demi wrote: 2007 Indians beat Yankees. 120 million dollar difference in payroll
2006 Tigers beat Yankees 110 million dollar difference in payroll
2005 Angels beat Yankees 101 million dollar difference in payroll
2003 Marlins beat Yankees 101 million dollar difference in payroll

2010 Twins are 109 million difference. Indians, Tigers, Angels, and Marlins all managed to beat them with over a 100 million dollar difference.

And where are ALL of those teams right now?

They're cinderella stories that don't happen that often. Those teams are inconsistent at best. The Twins are one of the most amazing franchises to be playing the game these days because they don't have to spend ridiculous amounts of money and they still keep it all competitive and win games. The Twins play the game it was meant to be played (through the minor leagues and prospects)...the Yankees play with their wallets and buy their talent.

PurpleMustReign wrote:The second thing is trade or acquire a #1 Ace.

But isn't part of the problem that a lot of these elite aces simply don't want to come play for the Twins? Was it Lee who said something like that? Maybe it was one of the other big names, I can't remember. King of a weird contradiction, considering that everyone seems to heap praise upon the Twins for how they run their team, yet big name pitchers seem to avoid us. If only we still had Santana....

I'm not giving up on Liriano as a potential ace. He still has many years ahead of him and he definitely has immense potential. He's got the best slider in the entire league and someone else mentioned the crazy low amount of HRs he allowed this year. He just needs some positive post-season experiences before he crosses over into the elite realm.

HornedMessiah wrote: But isn't part of the problem that a lot of these elite aces simply don't want to come play for the Twins? Was it Lee who said something like that? Maybe it was one of the other big names, I can't remember. King of a weird contradiction, considering that everyone seems to heap praise upon the Twins for how they run their team, yet big name pitchers seem to avoid us. If only we still had Santana....

It was Oswalt. He had a no-trade clause that excluded certain teams like the Twins. Idk what their problem with the Twins would be now...our park makes them MORE successful lol!

thatguy wrote:lol you two are both like Philly fans. If things don't go our ways in the playoffs even though the coach/manager has given the team the chance to win and compete every year...fire him. It's always the manager's fault.

Oh and btw, unless you don't take too much stock in this word...that strikeout would've given us momentum. It's hard for a pitcher to come back and pitch another strike after a perfect pitch that was called a ball. Pavano deserved better...I hope to God we get him back next year.

Its not like Guardy has had ANY playoff success. None. Zero. Zip. So, how long do you give him as a regular season wonder and a post season loser??? A decade? Two decades?? Ultimately, the manager has to answer for his teams success/failure. As PMR said, if Guardy was the manager of almost any other team, he would be fired.

As far as Pavano falling apart because of one questionable called ball, that happens, and good teams make you pay. As I said, the Umps gave us 4 outs in the 9th inning of game one, and we did nothing with it. Sometimes bad calls happen, good teams win anyways, like the Yankees did in game 1.

And the reason Oswalt had a no trade clause to Mn in his contract, I ASSUME, is our playoff track record. What ace, would want to come to a team that cant win in the playoffs?

purple guy wrote:
And the reason Oswalt had a no trade clause to Mn in his contract, I ASSUME, is our playoff track record. What ace, would want to come to a team that cant win in the playoffs?

That's funny. Back when he was asking to be traded...he said he would love to go to the Nationals.

This is just sickening, I can't watch anymore. It's only the top of the 4th and the game is already over. Duensing is sloppy and the Yanks are making him pay. The whole Yankees team has this confident swagger, like they're just toying with the Twins.

Another great season ends in MASSIVE disappointment.

HornedMessiah wrote:The whole Yankees team has this confident swagger, like they're just toying with the Twins.

Hey, I didn't know Ron Darling gave you permission to quote him exactly.

The Yankees would have that "swagger" as you call it even if they were behind 20-0 because that's who they are...d-bags.

thatguy wrote:Hey, I didn't know Ron Darling gave you permission to quote him exactly.

who?

HornedMessiah wrote: who?

The commentator on TBS who said the exact same thing you had said.