Vikings Message Board.Com

mondry wrote:I still don't get why they signed him anyway, they of all teams should have had a pretty good look first hand at what the dude has become... But if he couldn't beat out curtis painter who was the guy that blew chunks while the colts went 2-14 or whatever (suck for luck?) then wow.

Because they had only two QBs under contract and one of them (Manning) had just undergone ankle surgery and it was uncertain how long his recovery would be. Then they drafted a QB and Manning was able to participate in OTAs seven weeks after surgery, so Freeman became expendable.

Eli wrote: Because they had only two QBs under contract and one of them (Manning) had just undergone ankle surgery and it was uncertain how long his recovery would be. Then they drafted a QB and Manning was able to participate in OTAs seven weeks after surgery, so Freeman became expendable.

Nassib was drafted in 2013 though, not this year, but either way, it still makes sense, I forgot Manning had surgery and was still out.

80 PurplePride 84 wrote:Freeman must really be a train wreck mentally behind the scenes.

The fact he never got another chance with the Vikings last year given our QB situation, even after that atrocious, start led me to believe that. You don't go from Pro Bowler to unrosterable that quickly.

People who have ADHD, or maybe just people who are diagnosed with it, usually stop caring about things after the novelty has worn off and they become bored with it. I don't think you could ever make it in this league if you didn't care about what you do, and there's more than enough evidence to suggest that Freeman doesn't even care about showing up to practices on time. You'd think he'd have some sense of urgency with the Vikes, but that obviously wasn't the case if he was consistently showing up late.

Some say that ADHD is just an all-encompassing term for mental illnesses the way that schizophrenia used to be. You can't really help people like that, they have to do it themselves.

Slick Rick wrote: People who have ADHD, or maybe just people who are diagnosed with it, usually stop caring about things after the novelty has worn off and they become bored with it. I don't think you could ever make it in this league if you didn't care about what you do, and there's more than enough evidence to suggest that Freeman doesn't even care about showing up to practices on time. You'd think he'd have some sense of urgency with the Vikes, but that obviously wasn't the case if he was consistently showing up late.

Some say that ADHD is just an all-encompassing term for mental illnesses the way that schizophrenia used to be. You can't really help people like that, they have to do it themselves.

I think you are just making stuff up and don't have one clue what you are talking about.

PsyDanny wrote: I think you are just making stuff up and don't have one clue what you are talking about.

They get bored. It's the classic symptom of every ADHD patient. It's why they need adderall/ritalin.

PsyDanny wrote: I think you are just making stuff up and don't have one clue what you are talking about.

Yeah, he's been doing that for months. Whatever. It's all offseason entertainment.

Slick Rick wrote: They get bored. It's the classic symptom of every ADHD patient. It's why they need adderall/ritalin.

Again, you don't know what you are talking about. There is no definitive symptom. There are a cluster of possible Inattentive and/or Hyperactive-Impulsive symptoms, of which 6 or more are needed (5 for adults).

Being easily bored can be one of the symptoms. However, even people with ADHD can pay attention with activities they enjoy, and tend to have more difficulty with tasks that are boring or repetitive. Something like football, would be active and stimulating; probably not boring. Perhaps Freeman might find himself having difficulty with attention in the classroom environment.

In particular, an ADHD diagnosis requires evidence of signficant impairment since at least early adolescence. With a specific person like Freeman, an adult who has been playing football successfully since that time, it would be a huge stretch to say that ADHD is the cause of his decline.

Remember here that we are talking about a specific individual that non of us know personally. Hence, none of us know what we are talking about as regards Freeman himself.

But to say that it is all about ADHD, when you obviously know so little about the subject (given your broad statements), just makes you look silly.

PsyDanny wrote:Again, you don't know what you are talking about. There is no definitive symptom. There are a cluster of possible Inattentive and/or Hyperactive-Impulsive symptoms, of which 6 or more are needed (5 for adults).

Being easily bored can be one of the symptoms. However, even people with ADHD can pay attention with activities they enjoy, and tend to have more difficulty with tasks that are boring or repetitive. Something like football, would be active and stimulating; probably not boring. Perhaps Freeman might find himself having difficulty with attention in the classroom environment.

Oh, so you're saying that once the novelty has worn off that they may lose interest? Wow, that's exactly what I said in my first post! I'm glad we could agree on something. Considering that football is only going to be stimulating if you're actually interested in playing it, as is the case with anything, I don't think you can even conclude that football is "working" for him at this point. Maybe it got too easy for him. He was pretty dominant there for a few years, even looked like he had a shot at becoming one of the better QBs in the league. How do you explain no apparent loss in physical skills, and suddenly terrible accuracy? Anyways, this is all consistent with what I said. I didn't list his entire medical background and whatever symptoms he may have had because his doctor hasn't disclosed that information with me.

The root of all ADHD symptoms is boredom/inattentiveness/focus related. It's just a simple fact my friend. Look it up anywhere, every symptom when you get right down to it leads back to the same thing, and that's why it's so easy to get medication for it whether you actually have it or not. That's what's wrong with psycho analysis, everything's related when you think hard enough. You're obviously into psych, so you should know all of that better than anyone. No one's saying Freeman can't pay attention. The point was that it could be a contributing factor.

In particular, an ADHD diagnosis requires evidence of signficant impairment since at least early adolescence. With a specific person like Freeman, an adult who has been playing football successfully since that time, it would be a huge stretch to say that ADHD is the cause of his decline.

Remember here that we are talking about a specific individual that non of us know personally. Hence, none of us know what we are talking about as regards Freeman himself.

But to say that it is all about ADHD, when you obviously know so little about the subject (given your broad statements), just makes you look silly.

I never once said it was "all about ADHD", and the fact that this is all speculation should be a pretty good indicator that I'm not actually saying that it's even for sure the root of the problem. With that said, I think it's pretty clear that it is part of the problem (please note the difference between saying that "it is" and saying that it appears to be that way, as I don't want to have to repeat this information again). Everything with him seems to be attention or disinterest related, both being very likely to stem from his ADHD. It certainly isn't talent related, and he hasn't really ever suffered an injury. It's a process of elimination, and since we don't know for sure there's no reason not to speculate.

Look, you obviously know a lot more than I do about psychology. Maybe you know things about ADHD that I don't, but I think the science itself is very inexact and based almost entirely off of observation and almost nothing tangible. I think you're creating this imagine in your head that I'm trying to say that Josh Freeman can't focus on football and that it could only possibly be due to ADHD. I'm going based entirely off of what is known to the public dude, like you said not a single one of us knows the guy personally, or at least I don't think they do. I thought that much was painfully obvious, and didn't require for me to spell it out. Sometimes you can just make an assessment with your intuition and roll with it. It doesn't have to be complicated. No one's EVER going to know the truth about whether or not Josh Freeman declined because of ADHD or not. Who cares.

Slick Rick wrote: Oh, so you're saying that once the novelty has worn off that they may lose interest? Wow, that's exactly what I said in my first post! I'm glad we could agree on something. Considering that football is only going to be stimulating if you're actually interested in playing it, as is the case with anything, I don't think you can even conclude that football is "working" for him at this point. Maybe it got too easy for him. He was pretty dominant there for a few years, even looked like he had a shot at becoming one of the better QBs in the league. How do you explain no apparent loss in physical skills, and suddenly terrible accuracy? Anyways, this is all consistent with what I said. I didn't list his entire medical background and whatever symptoms he may have had because his doctor hasn't disclosed that information with me.

The root of all ADHD symptoms is boredom/inattentiveness/focus related. It's just a simple fact my friend. Look it up anywhere, every symptom when you get right down to it leads back to the same thing, and that's why it's so easy to get medication for it whether you actually have it or not. That's what's wrong with psycho analysis, everything's related when you think hard enough. You're obviously into psych, so you should know all of that better than anyone. No one's saying Freeman can't pay attention. The point was that it could be a contributing factor.
I never once said it was "all about ADHD", and the fact that this is all speculation should be a pretty good indicator that I'm not actually saying that it's even for sure the root of the problem. With that said, I think it's pretty clear that it is part of the problem (please note the difference between saying that "it is" and saying that it appears to be that way, as I don't want to have to repeat this information again). Everything with him seems to be attention or disinterest related, both being very likely to stem from his ADHD. It certainly isn't talent related, and he hasn't really ever suffered an injury. It's a process of elimination, and since we don't know for sure there's no reason not to speculate.

Look, you obviously know a lot more than I do about psychology. Maybe you know things about ADHD that I don't, but I think the science itself is very inexact and based almost entirely off of observation and almost nothing tangible. I think you're creating this imagine in your head that I'm trying to say that Josh Freeman can't focus on football and that it could only possibly be due to ADHD. I'm going based entirely off of what is known to the public dude, like you said not a single one of us knows the guy personally, or at least I don't think they do. I thought that much was painfully obvious, and didn't require for me to spell it out. Sometimes you can just make an assessment with your intuition and roll with it. It doesn't have to be complicated. No one's EVER going to know the truth about whether or not Josh Freeman declined because of ADHD or not. Who cares.

Who cares? Anyone who has followed Josh Freeman's career in general, or his time as a Viking specifically, or those of us who become concerned with another human being has something like this happen to him. At least you and I, as evidenced by our discussing this.

As far as your general comments about Josh Freeman and the role that ADHD may have had his his career decline; well, you are the one that brought it up, and you didn't cite other possibilities.

Regarding your comments about novelty - this is where there is a difference in your estimation and my own. ADHD could be a factor; however, I question that as being a significant factor because the novelty would have likely died off years ago. He seemed to perform quite well for many years, way past the time when the novelty would have been surpassed by the mundane drugery of practice, classroom work, etc. Also, I question that premise because the games themselves are inherently novel - each is unique, requiring sustained attention to both perform well, and to avoid getting killed.

So it comes down to a fundamental disagreement whether his ADHD diagnosis is the only factor (again, you brought it up, and did not suggest other factors) or a significant factor. Whether other psychological factors would be relevant, then I would *suspect* we are on to something. Things like depression (with symptoms like lack of motivation, loss of interest in and sense of pleasure from activities that were formerly pleasurable, etc.) might be theorized.

In any case, it is certainly a curious thing. I hope he can get his life figured out.

PsyDanny wrote:Who cares? Anyone who has followed Josh Freeman's career in general, or his time as a Viking specifically, or those of us who become concerned with another human being has something like this happen to him. At least you and I, as evidenced by our discussing this.

It was a rhetorical question, hence the lack of a question mark. The point of the "who cares" was to make the point that it isn't a very big deal to speculate.

As far as your general comments about Josh Freeman and the role that ADHD may have had his his career decline; well, you are the one that brought it up, and you didn't cite other possibilities.

There are limitless possibilities. Why don't you name one to start. I've already made my case and used facts to support my decision, in case you missed it. I don't think I should have to run through a list of every possibility when any one of them could stem from the ADHD.

Regarding your comments about novelty - this is where there is a difference in your estimation and my own. ADHD could be a factor; however, I question that as being a significant factor because the novelty would have likely died off years ago. He seemed to perform quite well for many years, way past the time when the novelty would have been surpassed by the mundane drugery of practice, classroom work, etc. Also, I question that premise because the games themselves are inherently novel - each is unique, requiring sustained attention to both perform well, and to avoid getting killed.

You could make the argument that the novelty didn't wear off because you're always switching to a new level. Maybe he could play high school 4 years at a time, and then college for a few years, he was good as a pro for 4 years too. As someone who has been diagnosed with ADHD, I can attest to this. I used to play video games like an addict, and now I can't even play them for more than 20 or 30 minutes at a time without being bored into exhaustion. They just aren't fun for me anymore, even new games that I've never played before. I don't play with any passion or urgency, and I'm just not as good as I used to be. This is the absolute truth, I was diagnosed when I was in middle school and even briefly took medication for it before, I know exactly what it's like. When you're cold on something, it's almost impossible to get back into it. ADHD makes you incredibly lazy unless you have a passion for doing something, that's why it's often suggested that the best medicine is to focus on different projects to keep yourself from burning out.

So it comes down to a fundamental disagreement whether his ADHD diagnosis is the only factor (again, you brought it up, and did not suggest other factors) or a significant factor. Whether other psychological factors would be relevant, then I would *suspect* we are on to something. Things like depression (with symptoms like lack of motivation, loss of interest in and sense of pleasure from activities that were formerly pleasurable, etc.) might be theorized.

In any case, it is certainly a curious thing. I hope he can get his life figured out.

I can't think of one thing that is more likely to be contributing than this. I think depression a lot of times in ADHD patients stems from the ADHD, even if it's indirectly. I hope he gets it sorted out as well, he's one of the most physically gifted QBs in the game, and certainly more so than Cassel and Ponder. I was pulling for him because I recognize his potential, but he doesn't appear to have it mentally anymore, for whatever reason. As I've just mentioned, I relate to all of this. Not sure if we have the same type of ADHD, as I said before I think the term inadvertently covers a range of personality disorders, but I definitely sense that there are parallels between my situation with gaming and his with football.

I want to play shrink too. My theory is that his psychiatric medication is what is screwing his head up even more than supposedly "having" ADHD. Want to be a successful NFL QB on Ritalin/Adderall? I don't think so.

Webbfann wrote:I want to play shrink too. My theory is that his psychiatric medication is what is screwing his head up even more than supposedly "having" ADHD. Want to be a successful NFL QB on Ritalin/Adderall? I don't think so.

You haven't ever had adderall, have you? It only makes you more compulsive, and more focused.

Slick Rick wrote: You haven't ever had adderall, have you? It only makes you more compulsive, and more focused.

Oh excuse me. Compulsive sounds like a great quality for an NFL quarterback.

Webbfann wrote: Oh excuse me. Compulsive sounds like a great quality for an NFL quarterback.

So having a high motor is a bad trait for QBs somehow? Gotcha. Mind explaining that?