Vikings @ Packers Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 5

[BGM]

Now, I just can't get behind this "McCarthy is a genius" bandwagon I keep hearing, here ^ and from TV commentators. Without Rodgers, this team is toast. Last year showed that clearly. How many games does he win with Ponder and Harnish as his QB's?!

Shanahan was a genius, as long as Elway played. When he was injured, the Broncos were lousy. When Shanahan got to build another team without Elway, they were lousy.

The Colts with a #1 draft pick QB (Manning, then Luck) = double digit wins every year. The Colts with a journeyman QB = two wins. That's not coaching. QB play has an oversized role in win-loss records in the NFL.

I like McCarthy. He wins with a group of guys who fly under the radar. Their defense is not world-stopping, but they get it done. They have protected Rodgers with a patchwork quilt the last couple years. And yes, Rodgers is worth his weight in cheese, but who does he have around him? Imagine how unstoppable he could be with more than just Jordy Nelson to throw to. He is an expert coach because he consistently gets more out of his players than you'd expect. Is he the best ever? Nope. But he is dang good.

[DK Sweets]

I like McCarthy. He wins with a group of guys who fly under the radar. Their defense is not world-stopping, but they get it done. They have protected Rodgers with a patchwork quilt the last couple years. And yes, Rodgers is worth his weight in cheese, but who does he have around him? Imagine how unstoppable he could be with more than just Jordy Nelson to throw to. He is an expert coach because he consistently gets more out of his players than you'd expect. Is he the best ever? Nope. But he is dang good.

Randall Cobb isn't too shabby, either.

[John_Viveiros]

Oh, come on. 41-Donut in the 2000 NFC Title Game was easily worse than this.

Teddy will be back for Detroit, nobody had this game as anything but a loss from the moment the schedule came out. End of a brutal 5-game opening stretch, short week to prepare, at Lambeau. There was never a chance. Heck, if Cassel had stayed healthy and started, there was no chance. Only Cassel getting hurt so Teddy could come in and play so well gave us a temporary glimmer of hope in the last 3 days and his ankle made it not worth the risk and ended that.

Team will rebound. They're at the 2-3 they needed to be after the 5-game tough stretch; having 10 days to sit on this stinker will have them very fired up for Detroit in front of the home crowd. Beat Detroit, they're 3-3 and after Buffalo, Tampa, and Washington should be 6-3. The defense was OK tonight; they got enough stops early and just got nothing from the offense or Ponder.

I'll be far more concerned if the OL plays poorly against Detroit. I'm worried that great performance Sunday was a fluke and due to Atlanta's front 7 being pretty bad (and Teddy sensational) rather than the Vikings' OL capable of being consistently good. It'll be interesting to see what happens if Teddy gets blocking as bad as we saw tonight (not that Ponder ever helps it look better). He may very well not stay healthy, which is the #1 imperative. Teddy cannot get hurt again this season.

At 181 posts, you may be my new favorite on the board! I wanted to say all this, but you beat me to it.

At Green Bay, on a short week, with Peterson, Rudolph, Fusco, Cassel, and Bridgewater, and we all had this game as a probable loss. At Green Bay on a short week without those guys? ...You are just looking to see the character of the team. To that point, the only really, really surprising disappointment was the Lacy TD where Robison missed him as he reversed field. We can't have our starting DE doing that. That was exactly as I expected Ponder to play, so I can't really call that a disappointment.

Compare our defense to Chicago's. They didn't force a punt all day at home. We forced five punts on the road in the first half. The fact that we gave them nearly a whole game's worth of possessions in the first half, resulting in 21 offensive points from two turnovers (and seven defensive points from the other), makes me think that a reasonable offensive effort might have gotten our defense a little better support and given us a chance to win the game.

I'll focus on the offensive line when (if?) I rewatch this game. It seems to me we were doing okay running the ball, but abandoned it when the score got out of reach - incorrectly, I thought. I would have challenged the offensive line to run block aggressively.

[John_Viveiros]

i'll sum this up for all of you. WE AREN"T THAT GOOD. PERIOD. we have a long way to go and we only have one hope at this point--teddy. our defense has played 3 really good qb's the last 3 weeks, but look at how many points we have allowed? the chief's shut down brady and yet look at what he did to us. our defense isn't really good at all, and our run game???? this is my favorite part. the only reason we ran like we did last week was because bridgewater was throwing all over the field and it opened up the run. wake up people.

What did Brady do to us? My recollection was that he made one TD drive and three FG drives all day. The other two TD's came on a blocked FG and an interception return (to the one yard line). Given that our QB was making five (he also had a fumble, right?) turnovers, it's a wonder that the defense didn't just throw in the towel.

[Mothman]

At Green Bay, on a short week, with Peterson, Rudolph, Fusco, Cassel, and Bridgewater, and we all had this game as a probable loss. At Green Bay on a short week without those guys? ...You are just looking to see the character of the team. To that point, the only really, really surprising disappointment was the Lacy TD where Robison missed him as he reversed field. We can't have our starting DE doing that. That was exactly as I expected Ponder to play, so I can't really call that a disappointment.

Compare our defense to Chicago's. They didn't force a punt all day at home. We forced five punts on the road in the first half. The fact that we gave them nearly a whole game's worth of possessions in the first half, resulting in 21 offensive points from two turnovers (and seven defensive points from the other), makes me think that a reasonable offensive effort might have gotten our defense a little better support and given us a chance to win the game.

A better offensive effort might have given the defense more support and created a chance to win the game but I thought poor o-line play, questionable playcalling and poor defense early set the tone for the night and put Ponder behind the eightball, which was clearly the worst place to put him.

On the road against an dangerous opponent, I think a team needs solid, disciplined o-line play and good defense early. They can't afford to fall behind and lose momentum quickly. The Vikes committed all of the early sins that get a team buried in a game like that. On their first possession, they ran Asiata for 3 yards, Loadholt committed a holding penalty to put them in second and long, they took a shot downfield that didn't work and then ran a screen on third down from their own 10 that Asiata dropped (it was going nowhere anyway).

The defense then came out on the field, allowed Lacy to rip right through them and Green Bay scored easily. The Vikes offense returned, picked up a first down and failed to convert on third and 3 when Turner called a double crossing route play that inexplicably had both receivers running their routes short of the first down marker. Back to the defense, which completely broke down and let Green Bay's most obvious weapon in the passing game, Jordy Nelson, get WIDE open for an easy TD. Bingo. The Vikes were down 14, the Packers could tee off on Ponder with impunity and neither he or the o-line were equipped to deal with it. A few uneventful series for both teams later, Green Bay's pressure finally got to Ponder, his arm was hit as he threw, Peppers picked off the pass for a TD and the route was on. It just went downhill from there.

I think the penalty on the first series, the questionable call on 3rd and 3 and especially the defense's poor play on their second and third series set the tone for the night. You just can't fall behind like that on the road, against a good opponent, especially when your third string QB is starting. It's a recipe for disaster.

[Raptorman]

Packers played a great game last night.

Disclaimer: Anything posted below is not an excuse, it is my opinion on what I saw during the 3/4 of a game I watched. Yeah, I could take no more and turned it off at the end of the third Quarter.

Ponder sucks. I thought that maybe he would flourish in Turners system. Half of the missed passes, high passes, late passes, Bridgewater makes. He is that bad. The Vikings just need to dump him. Not even keep him as a 3rd QB. I am pretty sure Chandler Harnish could have done better and he has only been with the team since last week. That long pass to Wright that was 5 yards to one side, Bridgewater puts that in Wrights hands.

The Vikings O-line was run over by the Packers D-line. The O-line did Ponder no favors in being a sieve. I haven't seen play that bad since my college hockey team beat Chicago North 49-0. I do believe Ponder has this ability to suck the life force out other Viking players on the field. Including the defense.

The Defense. Other than being burned by a couple of good Rodgers throws, they spent most of game doing pretty well. After the first two TD's they stiffened up. But it's hard to keep it up when your offense gives points away to the other team. I don't think they expected the Packers run game to do so well. I thought I saw a holds on a couple of Lacy's good runs, but that's a moot point. They should have had him at the LOS. No excuses'.

Don't be to hyped up about the beat down on the Vikings offense. After all, if the Packers came to MN and they had Peterson, Rudolph and Bridgewater, while the Packers were without Rodgers, Lacy and Nelson. And they had Tolzien starting at QB. Not sure how well they would have done. Not making an excuse, just perspective.

I did think they would have played a better game than they did. I hope they do against the Lions.

Being a fan when you team wins is easy, being a fan when they lose, not so much.

[Thaumaturgist]

The Vikes offense returned, picked up a first down and failed to convert on third and 3 when Turner called a double crossing route play that inexplicably had both receivers running their routes short of the first down marker.

I saw quite a few of those last night. I thought we got rid of Chiligrave ball when we brought Norv in here. And what was up with the blocking for our punter? He didn't have a great night, but seemed to be harassed most of the night as well.

[DK Sweets]

Ponder sucks. I thought that maybe he would flourish in Turners system. Half of the missed passes, high passes, late passes, Bridgewater makes. He is that bad. The Vikings just need to dump him. Not even keep him as a 3rd QB. I am pretty sure Chandler Harnish could have done better and he has only been with the team since last week. That long pass to Wright that was 5 yards to one side, Bridgewater puts that in Wrights hands.

I don't disagree that Ponder played tragically bad last night, but I see the long pass to Jarius differently. When Ponder lets go of the football, Jarius is about even with the corner and looks to be leaning to the sideline. Immediately afterwards, Jarius cuts in to create more separation, but the ball is in the air. By the time Jarius locates the ball, he's too far out of position to make the pass look close.

Basically, Ponder threw a nice pass where he thought Jarius was going to be, and Jarius was looking to make the throw easier on Ponder. It wasn't really anybody's fault, it's just miscommunication can kill drives, especially when the unit isn't playing well to begin with.

[PurpleKoolaid]

Your overreactions are what's wrong. It seems like you sit by your keyboard waiting for the Vikings to do something wrong just so you "sound like you know what you're talking about" by bi*ching week in and week out. Your negativity does nothing but bring the board down and it's pathetic to see. Negative, "know-it-all" fans like you make me wish this board was still shut down

Again with 'the negative posters'? If there were positives im sure the 'negative' posters would praising the Vikings. But there isn't. Rickie hasn't done us much favors either. That's not negative, its the truth. You don't have a 3rd string QB in the game that you know cant play. Yet we did. You either pick up another vet player, or you start to develop a younger player the second the OTA's start. I just cant figure you man crush on Rickie out.

[Mothman]

Packers played a great game last night.

Disclaimer: Anything posted below is not an excuse, it is my opinion on what I saw during the 3/4 of a game I watched. Yeah, I could take no more and turned it off at the end of the third Quarter.

Ponder sucks. I thought that maybe he would flourish in Turners system. Half of the missed passes, high passes, late passes, Bridgewater makes. He is that bad. The Vikings just need to dump him. Not even keep him as a 3rd QB. I am pretty sure Chandler Harnish could have done better and he has only been with the team since last week. That long pass to Wright that was 5 yards to one side, Bridgewater puts that in Wrights hands.

Maybe, and I don't disagree with most of what you wrote, but it looked to me like Wright may have turned that route further inside than he was supposed to go. One way or the other, I don't think it was just a bad throw. It looked like they weren't on the same page on that play.

The Vikings O-line was run over by the Packers D-line. The O-line did Ponder no favors in being a sieve. I haven't seen play that bad since my college hockey team beat Chicago North 49-0. I do believe Ponder has this ability to suck the life force out other Viking players on the field. Including the defense

.

If so, that's on those other players and I don't think it speaks well of them.

Being a fan when you team wins is easy, being a fan when they lose, not so much.

We know that all too well!

[PurpleKoolaid]

Simply saying it does nothing for the board besides create negativity

So foe the people that don't share your opinions?

[VikingLord]

The Vikings O-line was run over by the Packers D-line. The O-line did Ponder no favors in being a sieve.

Sorry, but I don't buy it. The OLine played the same as the week before. What made them look much worse was the QB's inability to get the ball out of his hand on time, read the field, properly adjust to pressure, and inconsistent mechanics.

This same line is going to look 100% better against a better front 4 next Sunday if Bridgewater starts.

[dead_poet]

Sorry, but I don't buy it. The OLine played the same as the week before. What made them look much worse was the QB's inability to get the ball out of his hand on time, read the field, properly adjust to pressure, and inconsistent mechanics. .

You cannot discount the quality of the opponent. Atlanta's 2014 defense is like the Cowboys of 2013. Their defensive line and linebackers was/is abysmal, especially in pressure creation. It's not comparing apples to apples. There are too many variables. The good news for this discussion (not necessarily for the team) is that the Vikings offensive line gets the Lions next week. The Lions defensive line represents an even larger pass rushing upgrade.

[yezzir]

Holy ####! He just stared down his receiver BEFORE HE EVER GOT THE SNAP!

How many QBs can be THAT incompetent?

TWICE!

special needs QB. Gotta keep THIS guy for the salary!

Ha!

I will never understand the "keep him because we're paying him" thing, at all.

Why not cut him to open up a roster spot/clear cap room? We're paying him either way!

[PacificNorseWest]

Has Blanton already been discussed yet? That dude got DESTROYED...Repeatedly.