Stadium thread

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VikingLord
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Re: Stadium thread

Post by VikingLord »

There is no way this thing gets built in Ramsey County. The Wilfs like the Arden Hills site because they know it's way under-valued and they'd be getting access to 265 basically undeveloped acres of infill development. With the state picking up the tab for reclamation and infrastructure upgrades, 400+ million from the proceeds generated by the Vikings is a small price to pay. Heck, once that land is upgraded, the stadium built on it, and other "developments" made, they could turn around and sell the team alone at that profit and probably a lot more.

The Minneapolis plan isn't as compelling for them because they don't have extra, undeveloped land around the stadium they can build on to generate even more profits and make the underlying land even more valuable. Even though that plan makes great sense for the city of Minneapolis and could be sold at the legislature as a more comprehensive approach to solving the entertainment and convention needs of Minneapolis and the surrounding cities, and more of the state investment can go towards actually building the stadium instead of upgrading infrastructure, the Wilfs won't profit as much.

If the state investment is going to be capped at $300 million, either the Wilfs will have to come up with the difference to build the thing in Ramsey County or it just isn't going to get built there. 3/4ths of the state investment could easily be chewed up just upgrading infrastructure to make Arden Hills a viable stadium site. I suppose they could compensate by scrapping the roof, but if they do that they might lose the limited support they have at the legislature.

I was flabbergasted when I read that the Wilfs wanted to build on the Ramsey site. For all the money they've made as real estate developers, they appear clueless when it comes to politics. Expect to see a lot of key people digging in their heels for the rest of this legislative session over the site. They'll make the Wilfs put their cards on the table to see if they really do have a viable option for relocating the team (which I think they don't), and if not, they'll have to either fund more of the cost or eat it and do the Metrodome refurbish.
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Re: Stadium thread

Post by glg »

VikingLord wrote:3/4ths of the state investment could easily be chewed up just upgrading infrastructure to make Arden Hills a viable stadium site.
I'm really confused by that. The site is very close to 35W and 694, already has 2 highways accessing it (US 10 and MN 96) that are 4 lanes. Some more turn lanes are needed, but is that really $175M? Sounds like whoever (MNDOT?) is coming up with that estimate may have a horse in the race that isn't this site.
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Re: Stadium thread

Post by Eli »

I see a practice facility in the plans. I didn't know the Vikings wanted to get out of Winter Park. That would be a blow to Eden Prairie.
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Re: Stadium thread

Post by DavidKarki »

Care to revisit your assertion that "there is no way this thing gets built in Ramsey County," VikingLord? Sounds like Zygi has pushed all his chips into the middle on this. Moreover, since Minneapolis' lame and insulting attempt to steal their thunder has left Zygi "very upset", I don't see him entertaining any offers from them. The Mpls idiots would rather lose the Vikings to L.A. than St. Paul, and should Arden Hills fail to get done, they'll probably get their wish with their bridge-burning cheap stunt.

Someone needs to remind these arrogant clowns that they have a vastly overinflated sense of Minneapolis' superiority. You put out an unserious joke of a stadium plan that financially screws the ostensible "beneficiary," time it to torpedo their real plan as much as possible, and then expect them to come to you hat in hand, because, well, you're Minneapolis?

Between this sort of treatment and the Dome roof caving in, Zygi isn't going to have to worry about being lumped in with Art Modell if he's forced to accept an L.A. offer. Nor will the NFL have to worry about publcic-relations damage. MN has done everything possible to ensure they deserve what they get and will receive no sympathy at all from anyone...

==========================================
Wilf is going all-out on Arden Hills plan
The Vikings owner clearly favors the Ramsey County proposal to any stadium site in downtown Minneapolis.

If anybody was doubtful that Zygi Wilf and the Vikings were serious about their announcement of Arden Hills being their No. 1 and only choice for the site of a new stadium, they should have been at Winter Park on Wednesday.

In one board room, Vikings officials were involved in contracts creating an agreement with Ramsey County to bring the proposed $1 billion facility to Arden Hills. And in anther board room, representatives of Minnesota Department of Transportation and traffic experts were discussing ways to solve the potential jams around the 260-acre former Army ammunition plant.

"I don't look at the fact of one site or the other," Wilf said. "This is the best site, this is the most exciting site, this answers all the questions that we have and this is the right time."

I spent a long time with the Vikings owner and Lester Bagley, the team vice president of public affairs and stadium development, on Wednesday as those meetings were going on, and I am familiar with many people working on the project. There is no doubt that Wilf was very upset by the fact that the city of Minneapolis' $895 million stadium proposal by R.T. Rybak was announced to the media without informing the Vikings beforehand.

This is another case where city officials tried to destroy pro sports here like they did in the past with the North Stars and the Lakers, and they came close to killing this one. I'm positive Wilf will not negotiate with any other site unless the current Ramsey County deal falls apart. And Wilf is determined to get it through the Legislature.

I am convinced that Wilf will do as the Pohlad family did for the Twins with Target Field -- adding additional team funds to make sure the new Vikings stadium is one of the finest, if not the finest, retractable-roof facility in the country. A covered facility will also enable to draw a lot of additional attractions, potentially including a Major League Soccer team.

As it stands now, the $407 million being contributed by the Wilf family ranks with the top ownership contributions for new stadiums in the NFL, only falling behind teams such as New England and Dallas among recent construction projects.

There is a possibility that the NFL will revive the G3 financing plan it had in recent years, where the league contributed money to teams to build new stadiums.

"It varied from different amounts based upon how much private investment was put in there and depending on the size of the marketplace," Wilf said of the NFL's contribution. "But that's going to be part of the plan going forward and we've expressed that to the NFL.

"It certainly is a significant investment on our part, in the economy that we're facing, but we feel very strongly in this site and what it could bring to our fans and the community."
Potential problems

The problems as Wilf sees it are, of course, the vote of the Legislature, and traffic congestion that according to many experts is blown out of proportion.

While it is being said that the traffic problems could kill the proposal, Wilf pointed to three NFL stadiums that have worse problems than Arden Hills would have, and he also included the Metrodome. And the Vikings won't need the new three roads until the stadium is built.

Furthermore, Wilf and his executives pointed out that MnDOT has worked with Mall of America, Best Buy, Medtronic, and United Health to make road improvements when these big companies built their new structures.

In a memo to Gov. Mark Dayton, the Vikings pointed out that they had hired Minneapolis-based SRF Consulting Group as engineering support. Apparently, traffic improvement for this job would cost between $200 million and $240 million, but this would be to provide better traffic year-round for all the projects that will develop in the area. The Vikings also had another firm come back with a cost estimate of $80 million to $120 million, but that figure had much less work done.

I spent almost an hour 1-on-1 with Wilf, and if you want my opinion, there is no chance of him negotiating with the Minneapolis sites at all unless the Arden Hills deal falls flat.

I have been a big booster of both the Metrodome and the Farmers Market sites. But the problem is that neither one came through with the type of proposal that can present the 21,000 parking spots that the Arden Hills site can, putting the Wilfs in a position to contribute the $407 million.

This is similar to the case where we had an opportunity to get the Winnipeg Jets team to play at Target Center in the fall of 1995, but the Minneapolis City Council wouldn't budge. The end result was that the Jets went to Phoenix and St. Paul got Xcel Energy Center built for the expansion Wild.
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glg
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Re: Stadium thread

Post by glg »

Eli wrote:I see a practice facility in the plans. I didn't know the Vikings wanted to get out of Winter Park. That would be a blow to Eden Prairie.
Pretty common with newer facilities to have the team HQ and practice facilities there as well.
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Re: Stadium thread

Post by Eli »

glg wrote: Pretty common with newer facilities to have the team HQ and practice facilities there as well.
What the hell, if you're paying for less than half of it, right?
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Re: Stadium thread

Post by CalVike »

I was flabbergasted when I read that the Wilfs wanted to build on the Ramsey site. For all the money they've made as real estate developers, they appear clueless when it comes to politics
It is not surprising to me. The Wilf's are after the ancillary development. The stadium is just a means to an end of growing their real estate empire at taxpayer expense, just like the Anoka County deal years ago. It will never pass the state and local politics in it's present form, on that point I agree. Unless the Vikings agree to take on expenses beyond their commitment including infrastructure, it is dead on arrival.
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VikingLord
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Re: Stadium thread

Post by VikingLord »

DavidKarki wrote:Care to revisit your assertion that "there is no way this thing gets built in Ramsey County," VikingLord? Sounds like Zygi has pushed all his chips into the middle on this. Moreover, since Minneapolis' lame and insulting attempt to steal their thunder has left Zygi "very upset", I don't see him entertaining any offers from them. The Mpls idiots would rather lose the Vikings to L.A. than St. Paul, and should Arden Hills fail to get done, they'll probably get their wish with their bridge-burning cheap stunt.
The pertinent facts are:

- The state has said it's max commitment to *any* plan is $300 million, and even that is probably pushing it.
- The more of that presumed $300 million that goes to infrastructure improvements is money that doesn't go to building the actual stadium that the Vikings want.

Also, if you're going to criticize the good leaders of the city of Minneapolis for throwing a plan out there at the last moment (a plan, BTW, that I believe is comprehensive and benefits a wider range of people than the Ramsey plan), you might also then call the Vikings to task for not exactly bringing St. Paul on board before their announcement. Any tax levied in Ramsey county is going to affect the taxpayers of Minnesota's second largest city, and there is no reason to think that the affected population is going to be any more thrilled about that than the taxpayers of Hennepin county or the city of Minneapolis would have been.

I still maintain that the Ramsey county site has no chance and is a power play on the part of the Wilfs in an effort to maximize their pure profit on the deal. They're banking that the legislature will cave and give them enough to both build out the infrastructure and the public portion of the stadium under the threat that if they don't the team could move. My bet is the legislature calls their bluff on that one. There are too many powerful and influential business leaders that want the stadium in Minneapolis if one is going to get built.

The amazing part of this whole saga is that the Wilfs appear oblivious to political reality in the state. They should have been including every Tom, Dick, and Harry in the state who could bring influence to bear on their stadium push, and quite frankly, a new stadium at any site is better than no new stadium or even selling/moving the team as-is. I'm perplexed at their focus on the Arden Hills site, and equally perplexed that some political leadership from St. Paul wasn't included in the presentation proposal.
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Re: Stadium thread

Post by glg »

VikingLord wrote:Also, if you're going to criticize the good leaders of the city of Minneapolis for throwing a plan out there at the last moment (a plan, BTW, that I believe is comprehensive and benefits a wider range of people than the Ramsey plan), you might also then call the Vikings to task for not exactly bringing St. Paul on board before their announcement.
They already have the Ramsey County board involved. That's who would levy the tax, not the city of St Paul. St Paulites already have their representatives involved.
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Re: Stadium thread

Post by Raptorman »

VikingLord wrote: They'll make the Wilfs put their cards on the table to see if they really do have a viable option for relocating the team (which I think they don't), and if not, they'll have to either fund more of the cost or eat it and do the Metrodome refurbish.
They don't have to relocate them and I don't think the Wilfs would. I do however believe that without a stadium deal in place by the time the 2011 season is over the team could very well be for sale. Zygi said he would not move the team, he didn't say he would not sell the team to someone who would move them. Zygi is not going to fight the stadium fight in MN much longer. This issue has been around since McCombs first bought the team. They have to do something or lose them. Those are the two options.
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Re: Stadium thread

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St. Paul mayor could be a key player in Vikings stadium push
The Vikings and Ramsey County officials announced on Tuesday a deal to build a new NFL stadium in Arden Hills, with what we regarded to be a premature atmosphere of celebration and, at times, outright euphoria from the speakers and the throng of Vikings fans in full game-day regalia. But the determination of a site for the venue represents only one item (albeit a big one) on the to-do list.

Apart from persuading the Minnesota Legislature to provide $300 million or so in state funding for the project — along with the inclusion of a provision allowing Ramsey County to impose a countywide sales tax to fund the project without a public vote — the City of St. Paul will have a voice in the matter, given that St. Paul is the biggest city in Ramsey County.

According to Mike Kaszuba and Rochelle Olson of the Minneapolis Star Tribune, St. Paul mayor Chris Coleman has to date said nothing at all about the proposal. He wasn’t present for Tuesday’s press event, and his silence could be a sign for now of disagreement.

Indeed, if Coleman welcomed the move, wouldn’t he have attended the brand-new stadium sausage party?

“Because St. Paul [is] the largest city in the county, I’d expect that you’d certainly want his support,” Senator John Harrington, a co-author of the Vikings stadium legislation, told the Star Tribune. Harrington added that, if Coleman comes out against the project, “I don’t know that it kills it.”

It may not kill the project, but it would make it harder to persuade the Legislature to justify foisting a new sales tax upon St. Paul and Ramsey County without a public vote. And a public vote undoubtedly would kill the project, given that so many Minnesotans seem to be opposed to the use of public funds for the stadium.

Except for the folks who wear horned hats and/or purple capes on many days other than Halloween.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... dium-push/
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Re: Stadium thread

Post by Eli »

“Because St. Paul [is] the largest city in the county, I’d expect that you’d certainly want his support,” Senator John Harrington, a co-author of the Vikings stadium legislation, told the Star Tribune. Harrington added that, if Coleman comes out against the project, “I don’t know that it kills it.”
I'm having a hard time seeing how the mayor of St. Paul has anything to do with anything when Ramsey county is already committed to the project and has pledged $350 million toward it.

It's almost as if people _want_ these petty political clashes to derail any chance of a new stadium. I just don't get it.
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Re: Stadium thread

Post by Knoxx »

Good point Eli. I think he probably didn't show so he can ride the fence on this issue at election time.
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Re: Stadium thread

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Vikings' share includes NFL, PSL money
My advice if you're ever having trouble sleeping: Pick up a copy of a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) -- any will do -- and start reading. If you make it past the second page, you need to see a sleep therapist.

While heading out east Thursday, I plowed through the recently-released MOU of the Minnesota Vikings' stadium site agreement with Ramsey County. It took a few tries, but I made it to the end and picked out a few interesting tidbits worth mentioning here.

Most important, either side can opt out of the agreement if the state legislature hasn't passed the corresponding bill by July 1, or if Gov. Mark Dayton vetoes it. That caveat essentially confirms what we discussed Tuesday: All bets are off if the legislature adjourns without taking action May 23. Unless Dayton calls a special session to address it before July 1, the Vikings could re-open the bidding to a number of Minneapolis sites in the fall or winter.

There is no indication the Vikings are wavering in any way, and owner Zygi Wilf has consistently professed a vision -- complete with tailgating and a shopping district -- that can't be achieved in any of the urban Minneapolis sites. But if the Vikings were completely and totally committed to the Ramsey County site, there wouldn't be the need for an opt-out clause so soon in the process.

Answering a question we asked Tuesday, the Vikings' $407 million share does in fact presume an NFL contribution. The precise amount isn't detailed, but as you know, the NFL's mechanism for funding stadiums has been tapped and is subject to negotiation in the next collective bargaining agreement.

I reached out to league spokesman Greg Aiello to find out if the Vikings have been assured some level of league involvement in this project. They have not. Here's what Aiello said: The NFL clubs would address a request from the Vikings for league financial support at the appropriate time." Aiello added that any league support would come in the form of a club seat waiver, where visiting teams forfeit their share of club seat premiums to contribute to the stadium fun. That perk requires approval from three-fourths of NFL owners.

The Vikings' contribution also includes revenue generated by selling personal seat licenses (PSLs), up to $125 million. If you consider a PSL a user fee, you can argue that the public will provide part of the Vikings' private contribution -- in addition to all of the county's $350 million share and the state's $300 million portion. If PSLs generate more than $125 million, the money will be diverted to cover the Vikings' portions of construction cost overruns.

The inclusion of a retractable roof in the original announcement was a surprise, and the MOU portrays its final inclusion as something less than a certainty. It will be installed "cost permitting." The roof represents $206 million of the project's total cost, and annual maintenance is estimated at up to $6 million.

The MOU gives the Vikings the discretion to scrap the retractable roof plans and install a fixed roof if it's "not economically or otherwise feasible." That sounds to me as if it is up to negotiation.
http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/post/_ ... -psl-money
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Re: Stadium thread

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Check out this debate at the end of the article. Caution: it will anger you: http://www.savethevikes.org/2011/05/12/ ... bsolutely/

Rep. Greiling said she's getting calls 9:1 against the stadium. Her number is 651.296.5387 if you would like to give her a call. She can also be reached on twitter at www.twitter.com/mgreiling
Rep. Greiling took a play right out of former Fed Chair Art Rolnik’s book: Show up at a stadium debate and debate education instead. In classic oppositional form she went and hid behind the children trying to make it sound as if Vikings fans are taking lunch money from Bobby and Susie Student.
Representative O'Driscoll deserves a note as well: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Tim-ODris ... &filter=12
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