Vikings Message Board.Com

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Sun Jan 15, 2023 10:02 pm

halfgiz wrote: ↑Sun Jan 15, 2023 9:58 pm

You think Hunters strong suit is trying to cover a running back out of the backfield?
A lot of players wasn’t playing to their strengths. Donatell wasn’t going to change anything.
We do need some talent and DC change.

Exactly. Saw hunter multiple times tonight covering guys downfield. Like I said before, the problem is scheme more than talent. We have holes no doubt, never said there wasn’t. But there’s no reason with the players we have, we couldn’t be a middle of the road defense.

You knew when Kendricks was covering Barkley and wide receivers this game was going to end in an L

With even a middle of the pack defense this team could have gone to the NFCC game imo.

JJBreaksRecords wrote: ↑Mon Jan 16, 2023 12:16 am

halfgiz wrote: ↑Sun Jan 15, 2023 9:58 pm

You think Hunters strong suit is trying to cover a running back out of the backfield?
A lot of players wasn’t playing to their strengths. Donatell wasn’t going to change anything.
We do need some talent and DC change.

I agree. That was my point. The D stunk. And it is horribly coached. And I blame the mighty Kevin for some of this. Every single fan I know, knows this D was bad from day 1. And then the offense decided to not play good ball until the end of the game, where Cousins had to shoulder the load and play hero.

It all falls on Kevin because he is the HC. He even admitted that in his post game press conference. He said all 3 phases of the team will be evaluated. They will make decisions based on those evaluations. When it comes to talent he will reach out to Kewsi. The NFL is more even than it's ever been. Look at these playoff games. The only team that was blown out was the Hawks. The Dolphins with a total stiff at QB played the Bills to the end in their stadium. If I'm a Bill fan I would say we suck on D and have no chance against the Chiefs. Not so fast. They were shut out the 2nd half last year in the Champ game and got beat. Mahomes folded. Even the best in the game has bad games.

Pep2Moss wrote: ↑Mon Jan 16, 2023 7:31 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Sun Jan 15, 2023 10:02 pm

Exactly. Saw hunter multiple times tonight covering guys downfield. Like I said before, the problem is scheme more than talent. We have holes no doubt, never said there wasn’t. But there’s no reason with the players we have, we couldn’t be a middle of the road defense.

You knew when Kendricks was covering Barkley and wide receivers this game was going to end in an L

With even a middle of the pack defense this team could have gone to the NFCC game imo.

Kendricks looked like a HS player out there last night. He was a glaring weakness. He's just way too slow, and seems to be processing plays slowly too. I really like him--he's a legendary Viking and has given a lot to the community--but on the field, he's lost a step, and I think it's time to move on. Hicks was bad this year too.

We had very little pressure on Jones and with as bad as our secondary is, that's a recipe for disaster. Part of me wishes that Slayton had caught that 3rd down pass that hit him in the hands. It would have sealed the game and the final reason of the loss would have fittingly been on the defense's shoulders. Instead, everyone is shifting blame onto Cousins, who played a pretty solid game and a solid year... but he made one ill-advised pass short of the sticks on the last play, which feeds a narrative many have had on him for years.

This one hurts, but not as bad as other years. This season was joyful because my expectations were low. I didn't think they'd get past the 49ers and, in fact, I feared they would curb stomp us and embarrass us. I would have loved to beat the Giants and shut the national media up, but in the end, they were right. Our 13 wins didn't faithfully reflect who we were. We were more of a 10 win team. Back to the offseason routine. SKOL, Vikings!

Definitely a defensive failure but I'm not willing to lay it all at Donatell's feet. We had enough years of having a head coach seemingly only responsible for half the team. KOC's defense failed and Donatell failed running it. KOC isn't just the offensive coordinator.

At some point this organization has to Finally wake up and realize that it will go nowhere without a top tier OL/DL. its been 2 decades since the Vikes had respectable lines that were worthy of being considered a real post-season contender. Look at the teams that are realistic smart bets to win it all this year....SF, KC, Dallas....all have solid lines. We had NO running game this year, it was never a factor because we cannot run block. Conversely, we had NO run defense either because we are undersized and just plain bad on the DL. I never wanted Cousins, I always made that clear. Moreover, we paid him way too much and lost resources to address our other needs. BUT, this year he was not the problem. He actually was part of the reason we had the Horseshoe up our rears all year. This year he didnt fail under pressure and he and our receivers carried our team. I still think he isnt worth what we have to pay him. Bad moves like keeping old guys that sell alot of jerseys (H Smith et al) is a weak move and if you dont have a front line that can exert pressure and shorten up plays, the weakness in secondary will become blatant, as it did this year. Time to face reality, build our lines update the secondary, TRY to keep our great receivers and perhaps try to get Cousins to make some sort of concessions on his contract ( I dont think he will, he isnt the guy who is all in on TEAM).........I really hope KOC isnt one of these old school fools who will stand by his guys while the ship is sinking....Donatell is an epic fail, he has to go. I really hope the defensive scheme was NOT designed by KOC. If so, we got troubles....

chicagopurple wrote: ↑Mon Jan 16, 2023 8:41 am At some point this organization has to Finally wake up and realize that it will go nowhere without a top tier OL/DL. its been 2 decades since the Vikes had respectable lines that were worthy of being considered a real post-season contender. Look at the teams that are realistic smart bets to win it all this year....SF, KC, Dallas....all have solid lines. We had NO running game this year, it was never a factor because we cannot run block. Conversely, we had NO run defense either because we are undersized and just plain bad on the DL. I never wanted Cousins, I always made that clear. Moreover, we paid him way too much and lost resources to address our other needs. BUT, this year he was not the problem. He actually was part of the reason we had the Horseshoe up our rears all year. This year he didnt fail under pressure and he and our receivers carried our team. I still think he isnt worth what we have to pay him. Bad moves like keeping old guys that sell alot of jerseys (H Smith et al) is a weak move and if you dont have a front line that can exert pressure and shorten up plays, the weakness in secondary will become blatant, as it did this year. Time to face reality, build our lines update the secondary, TRY to keep our great receivers and perhaps try to get Cousins to make some sort of concessions on his contract ( I dont think he will, he isnt the guy who is all in on TEAM).........I really hope KOC isnt one of these old school fools who will stand by his guys while the ship is sinking....Donatell is an epic fail, he has to go. I really hope the defensive scheme was NOT designed by KOC. If so, we got troubles....

KOC sought out Brandon Staley for opinions on who they should hire.

He said Donatell

Pettine should have been the guy after the Lions game latest. Should have been put in charge. Too late to change the defense, but not too late as far as being more aggressive and getting a better game plan.

chicagopurple wrote: ↑Mon Jan 16, 2023 8:41 am At some point this organization has to Finally wake up and realize that it will go nowhere without a top tier OL/DL.

How many more 1st and 2nd round picks do they need to spend on the OL until it is top tier? What position on the D line needs an upgrade?

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Mon Jan 16, 2023 8:52 am

chicagopurple wrote: ↑Mon Jan 16, 2023 8:41 am At some point this organization has to Finally wake up and realize that it will go nowhere without a top tier OL/DL.

How many more 1st and 2nd round picks do they need to spend on the OL until it is top tier? What position on the D line needs an upgrade?

Re: DL. I would say just about every single one. We got almost zero pressure on Jones last night. Hunter and Phillips are the two I might build around, but in general DL is such an important position and we just haven't devoted enough resources to it. Instead, we invest heavily in RB, LB, and S, and the returns we've been getting at those positions are not good.

Texas Vike wrote: ↑Mon Jan 16, 2023 8:00 am Instead, everyone is shifting blame onto Cousins, who played a pretty solid game and a solid year... but he made one ill-advised pass short of the sticks on the last play, which feeds a narrative many have had on him for years.

This is a good point. I have a friend that is all about everything being Cousins' fault. Kirk isn't the best, but he isn't to blame for as much as people want to blame him for.

This one hurts, but not as bad as other years. This season was joyful because my expectations were low. I didn't think they'd get past the 49ers and, in fact, I feared they would curb stomp us and embarrass us. I would have loved to beat the Giants and shut the national media up, but in the end, they were right. Our 13 wins didn't faithfully reflect who we were. We were more of a 10 win team. Back to the offseason routine. SKOL, Vikings!

Exactly. Coming off of an 8-9 season with a first year coach, 10 wins and maybe a wildcard spot was my best hope for this year. 13 wins and a the North was a bonus, and I didn't think we would make it past next weekend. There was hope, but not the expectation.

So it's the 46th year of no Minnesota in the Super Bowl. Another year of having to explain to people that "yes, the Vikings have won an NFL title ... 1969." Another year of figuring out who I dislike least to pull for in the Super Bowl. And another year of stupid commercials like the one with previous SB winners on that stupid bus. I think of the Viking players that should be in those as past winners, and

But, I did get to see my first game in Minnesota, experience a home game, the cold (remember, I am from South Carolina), see us clinch the North, and make the largest comeback in NFL history. So, there is that.

Texas Vike wrote: ↑Mon Jan 16, 2023 9:25 am

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Mon Jan 16, 2023 8:52 am
How many more 1st and 2nd round picks do they need to spend on the OL until it is top tier? What position on the D line needs an upgrade?

Re: DL. I would say just about every single one. We got almost zero pressure on Jones last night. Hunter and Phillips are the two I might build around, but in general DL is such an important position and we just haven't devoted enough resources to it. Instead, we invest heavily in RB, LB, and S, and the returns we've been getting at those positions are not good.

Oline, Dline, Wr (and TE), QB. Those are the premium positions to invest in. If you generate pass rush with a front 4 your defense will be good. Leaves 7 to cover 5 and you can mix up zones.

Texas Vike wrote: ↑Mon Jan 16, 2023 8:00 am

Pep2Moss wrote: ↑Mon Jan 16, 2023 7:31 am

You knew when Kendricks was covering Barkley and wide receivers this game was going to end in an L

With even a middle of the pack defense this team could have gone to the NFCC game imo.

Kendricks looked like a HS player out there last night. He was a glaring weakness. He's just way too slow, and seems to be processing plays slowly too. I really like him--he's a legendary Viking and has given a lot to the community--but on the field, he's lost a step, and I think it's time to move on. Hicks was bad this year too.

We had very little pressure on Jones and with as bad as our secondary is, that's a recipe for disaster. Part of me wishes that Slayton had caught that 3rd down pass that hit him in the hands. It would have sealed the game and the final reason of the loss would have fittingly been on the defense's shoulders. Instead, everyone is shifting blame onto Cousins, who played a pretty solid game and a solid year... but he made one ill-advised pass short of the sticks on the last play, which feeds a narrative many have had on him for years.

This one hurts, but not as bad as other years. This season was joyful because my expectations were low. I didn't think they'd get past the 49ers and, in fact, I feared they would curb stomp us and embarrass us. I would have loved to beat the Giants and shut the national media up, but in the end, they were right. Our 13 wins didn't faithfully reflect who we were. We were more of a 10 win team. Back to the offseason routine. SKOL, Vikings!

Spot-on about Kendricks. He had no chance out there. I think it's two things. Physically he's not what he used to be. Also, I don't think he ever processed things quickly enough in Donatell's scheme. When he was in his prime athletically, Kendricks was the perfect guy for what Zimmer wanted to do, with all the double A-gap pressure looks and such. But now he's fighting his age AND trying to play a scheme that requires quick processing of all the "rules" Donatell has for coverage. It never worked, and the Giants really exposed that weakness. I feel sorry for the guy. He's a Ring of Honor player in my opinion, but his time is up. He has to go. So does Donatell.

As for Cousins, it's unfortunate, but the narrative on him as a guy who is too cautious in big moments lives on. He did so much this season to turn that narrative around. On the 4th-and-18 against Buffalo, he ALSO had Hockenson open short of the sticks, but he put it up to Jefferson with almost no chance of it being completed because he knew that if he didn't, the game was over. Now against the Giants, in the same situation, his response is, "The safety was coming. Jefferson was covered." Dude, you just UNDID an ENTIRE SEASON of great work in turning around the narrative with ONE BAD DECISION.

I would have rather seen Cousins throw an easy pick into triple coverage than to check it down to Hockenson. Either way, the game is over, but at least you have a chance if you throw it downfield. Forget the whole "you can't blame Cousins for this loss" deal. You also can't credit him for lifting his team in the biggest moment of the entire season. THAT is what the greats do. You didn't.

And by the way, KOC ... why in the hell do you have ANYBODY running a route short of the sticks in that situation?

Everybody in this organization HAS TO GET BETTER. From the Wilfs, who couldn't bear potentially missing the playoffs and insisting on running it back, to Kwesi, to KOC, to the players.

We're all hating life right now. But we're going to hate it even more if the Bears and their tanking strategy has them on the road to being a consistently good team ends up being the right one. I'm an optimist when it comes to the Vikings. I thought, "OK, give KOC a chance and see what he can do running it back with this roster." And for 13 weeks of the season, it looked amazing. But regular-season wins, while fun, aren't the end goal. Now we're looking at a dire cap situation and only one pick in the top 100 in this year's draft. Meanwhile the Bears have their guy at QB, they're picking first, and they have nearly $100 million in cap space. I hate the Bears with almost as much ferocity as I hate the Packers. But if I had to guess, I'd say their future looks brighter than ours.

Kwesi, KOC ... we gave you your "competitive rebuild" year. It was fun. But NOW is when you show us what you're made of. If you can dig us out of the hole we're in, then you'll be remembered as great at what you do. But if we fall off the earth for the next 3 years, you might have trouble getting jobs in the future.

Im willing to bet a big part of the reason we ended with KOC over Harbough is there assessment of the team, KOC likely said we have great players and can make a run plugging a few holes in the next year or so where Harbough probably said they needed to start over, bite the bullet for a few years. I would have been completely been behind KOC if I thought this was a legit 13 win season, but this is why it stings. It’s quite clear luck was on this teams sides this year and easily could have been 10-7 or 9-8. I hope this doesn’t turn into a zimmer rerun were we seem to think we are always one step away and stay in .500 land forever. Hope KOC is smart and looks at the big picture. Even if you could build this team up in 3-4 years that would make Cousins 37-38? Good chance he’s not playing his best ball by then. Start over and build this team from the lines out.

Texas Vike wrote: ↑Mon Jan 16, 2023 9:25 am

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Mon Jan 16, 2023 8:52 am
How many more 1st and 2nd round picks do they need to spend on the OL until it is top tier? What position on the D line needs an upgrade?

Re: DL. I would say just about every single one. We got almost zero pressure on Jones last night. Hunter and Phillips are the two I might build around, but in general DL is such an important position and we just haven't devoted enough resources to it. Instead, we invest heavily in RB, LB, and S, and the returns we've been getting at those positions are not good.

Don't let VikingsVictorious read your thoughts about investing in a running back. He'll insult the hell out of you.

J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 16, 2023 11:31 am

Texas Vike wrote: ↑Mon Jan 16, 2023 9:25 am

Re: DL. I would say just about every single one. We got almost zero pressure on Jones last night. Hunter and Phillips are the two I might build around, but in general DL is such an important position and we just haven't devoted enough resources to it. Instead, we invest heavily in RB, LB, and S, and the returns we've been getting at those positions are not good.

Don't let VikingsVictorious read your thoughts about investing in a running back. He'll insult the hell out of you.

Not sure if I expressed myself clearly: I am saying that we have invested too much in RB, when we really ought to put more into the trenches. You know the old saying, "defense wins championships"? I think it's obsolete and in need of an update. It should be "the trenches (OL and DL) wins championships, and I think the 49ers will prove it this season.

Texas Vike wrote: ↑Mon Jan 16, 2023 9:25 am

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Mon Jan 16, 2023 8:52 am
How many more 1st and 2nd round picks do they need to spend on the OL until it is top tier? What position on the D line needs an upgrade?

Re: DL. I would say just about every single one. We got almost zero pressure on Jones last night. Hunter and Phillips are the two I might build around, but in general DL is such an important position and we just haven't devoted enough resources to it. Instead, we invest heavily in RB, LB, and S, and the returns we've been getting at those positions are not good.

Jones was getting rid of the ball very quickly or running before pressure could get to him. Still, he was pressured more than Burrow was last night and that was enough to hold a top 3 offense to just 17 points.

Tomlinson, Phillips, Hunter and Z are a top 5 defensive line. The Viking could look to add a pass rushing tackle to come in on obvious passing situations, but there isn't a lot of room for improvement here.