Vikings Message Board.Com

CharVike wrote: ↑Thu Jun 17, 2021 8:38 am 2019 OL was bad but now it's worse. Yes some new bodies but that could also mean same or worse result especially with no NFL snaps under their belt.

Sorry, but it can't be worse.

Not all of the potentially new bodies have no NFL snaps (Uli Udoh, for example, might find his way into the lineup this year), but even the guys with no pro snaps still have plenty of college snaps under their belts. Both Darrisaw and Davis were 4 year starters, and in the case of Davis especially, faced top-tier competition. It's not the same as some of the DEs they'll face in the pros, but its not like the Vikings are trotting one-year rookie wonders out there or 5th rounders who need a lot of development.

OL is still a big question mark, but its no bigger a question than last year's line, and unlike last year's line, this year's line has lots of upside potential.

VikingLord wrote: ↑Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:18 pm

CharVike wrote: ↑Thu Jun 17, 2021 8:38 am 2019 OL was bad but now it's worse. Yes some new bodies but that could also mean same or worse result especially with no NFL snaps under their belt.

Sorry, but it can't be worse.

Not all of the potentially new bodies have no NFL snaps (Uli Udoh, for example, might find his way into the lineup this year), but even the guys with no pro snaps still have plenty of college snaps under their belts. Both Darrisaw and Davis were 4 year starters, and in the case of Davis especially, faced top-tier competition. It's not the same as some of the DEs they'll face in the pros, but its not like the Vikings are trotting one-year rookie wonders out there or 5th rounders who need a lot of development.

OL is still a big question mark, but its no bigger a question than last year's line, and unlike last year's line, this year's line has lots of upside potential.

I had my doubts before the draft. I truly feared this was going to be a repeat of 2020. The draft had a few hiccoughs but turned out well, Vikings have since made a few key additions, Hunter was satisfactorily taken care of, it now appears the Vikings will be happy and healthy when they head into training camp.

If I wish to nitpick on defense I could complain about the questionable complements to Hunter at the other DE. The Vikings will have an incredible rotation at DT. I think we will be very pleased with what the play of these guys. I see better LB depth, and the defensive backfield went from a negative to a strong positive.

On offense the Vikings have a very good core of skill players back. I look for Irv Smith to be more involved, and the emergence of Conklin has been impressive. This group flourished with an O line that was less than proficient. (That is being kind) Vikings may well end up integrating two rookies on the OL. Yes, historically the O line needs reps together to truly function well as a unit. That said, I feel this O line will improve as the season advances. Worth mentioning this O line has much improved depth over last year. I also believe this will be a better O line than last year right out of the gate.

I feel there are many reasons to feel optimistic. Yes it happens some guys do not play up to expectations, injuries happen, we are still dealing with COVID which could sideline some of the unvaccinated. All things out of the Vikings control. I made the rash comment earlier in this thread that I feel this may be overall the best team we have seen in Zimmer's tenure. I do not know how far this team can go, but I think we are mostly going to enjoy watching them. (Yes, even Cousins )

I can easily see the Vikings finishing the coming season with a top 5 Defense Top 5 Offense and NFL Championship.

VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Thu Jun 17, 2021 5:30 pm I can easily see the Vikings finishing the coming season with a top 5 Defense Top 5 Offense and NFL Championship.

If not top 5 in both, top 10 is very realistic, and if they even hit that they're in the Superbowl mix for sure.

VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Thu Jun 17, 2021 5:30 pm I can easily see the Vikings finishing the coming season with a top 5 Defense Top 5 Offense and NFL Championship.

I definitely think the talent is there to dominate on both sides of the ball. I feel like it all comes down to the offensive line and team health. I'm very excited to see the back up QBs in preseason for once. No more Mannion!

Maelstrom88 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 18, 2021 12:47 pm

VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Thu Jun 17, 2021 5:30 pm I can easily see the Vikings finishing the coming season with a top 5 Defense Top 5 Offense and NFL Championship.

I definitely think the talent is there to dominate on both sides of the ball. I feel like it all comes down to the offensive line and team health. I'm very excited to see the back up QBs in preseason for once. No more Mannion!

So does this mean that you won't be lobbying for Mannion to be inducted into the Ring of Honor in the other thread , when his illustrious career is over??

Bowhunting Viking wrote: ↑Fri Jun 18, 2021 2:05 pm

Maelstrom88 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 18, 2021 12:47 pm

I definitely think the talent is there to dominate on both sides of the ball. I feel like it all comes down to the offensive line and team health. I'm very excited to see the back up QBs in preseason for once. No more Mannion!

So does this mean that you won't be lobbying for Mannion to be inducted into the Ring of Honor in the other thread , when his illustrious career is over??

Well it's a close call but I'm thinking he belongs more so in the just missed the cut or honorable mentions category. According to the Vikings he's just so great at helping Kirk which I thought was an attribute that was supposed to belong to a coach instead of a back up QB especially when the starter is a vet. And as for his career being over we all know no other team is going to sign him so if the Vikings don't experience an injury in the quarterback room I'm thinking that day has arrived for Mr. Mannion.

The dude is 29 and here are his career numbers:

Career NFL statistics as of 2020
TD–INT:0–3
Passing yards:384
Completion percentage:60.8
Passer rating:57.5
Rushing yards:-12
Rushing touchdowns:0

VikingTom wrote: ↑Thu Jun 17, 2021 5:22 pm
If I wish to nitpick on defense I could complain about the questionable complements to Hunter at the other DE.

Don't be shocked if the Vikings don't run nearly as much traditional 4-3. a 4-3 Under Cover 3 with Hunter, Barr or maybe Jones as the LEO, or a straight up 3-4 are real possibilities, especially now with Richardson back in the Building. Essentially, Tomlinson and Richardson can shift to DEs with Pierce as Nose on early downs with Hunter as LEO and perhaps Barr opposite him at OLB for max run defense without surrendering the pass rush, then shifting Hunter to DE with Jones at LEO and Barr opposite him at OLB for max pass rush.

VikingLord wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 5:45 pm
- OL can't be worse than it was last year,

Oh yes it can. Remember a few years ago? It was much worse several years in a row during the teen years.

fiestavike wrote: ↑Fri Jun 18, 2021 8:01 pm

VikingLord wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 5:45 pm
- OL can't be worse than it was last year,

Oh yes it can. Remember a few years ago? It was much worse several years in a row during the teen years.

It cannot be possibly any worse than 2016. At worst, it will be as bad as 2019 (in which we made playoffs), at best, it will be a top 15 offensive line. That is my prediction for this season.

With a top 5 defense this year, that is still a possibility of a Super Bowl.

fiestavike wrote: ↑Fri Jun 18, 2021 7:55 pm

VikingTom wrote: ↑Thu Jun 17, 2021 5:22 pm
If I wish to nitpick on defense I could complain about the questionable complements to Hunter at the other DE.

Don't be shocked if the Vikings don't run nearly as much traditional 4-3. a 4-3 Under Cover 3 with Hunter, Barr or maybe Jones as the LEO, or a straight up 3-4 are real possibilities, especially now with Richardson back in the Building. Essentially, Tomlinson and Richardson can shift to DEs with Pierce as Nose on early downs with Hunter as LEO and perhaps Barr opposite him at OLB for max run defense without surrendering the pass rush, then shifting Hunter to DE with Jones at LEO and Barr opposite him at OLB for max pass rush.

I flirted with that thought, not sure the Vikings have enough DL that fit the scheme to consistently run that kind of defense. Not to mention it would be a huge mind shift for Zimmer. (Which in itself might be the true impediment as Zimmer is not overly flexible) Would be nice to see Zimmer throw in a few wrinkles such as this. Regardless, I think this should be a good defense.

On paper things certainly look improved but there’s still a lot that needs to go right for this team to turnaround. A lot of assumptions.

We assume Hunter will be back to 2019 form. But neck injuries are no joke. See Mike Hughes. Let’s also not forget that Barr is also coming off a serious peck injury. Wonnum and Weatherly don’t exactly strike fear in the hearts of anyone. And it’s not inconceivable they’re our starting DEs at some point.

Peterson isn’t coming with a time machine. Maybe in a zone scheme he’ll perform better but it remains to be seen. Peterson, Breeland, and Woods had some pretty significant regression last year. As did Tomlinson. The vet presence is nice but we could easily be grabbing these guys with their best years in the rear view mirror.

Our OL will likely have a rookie LT and a tackle playing out of position at guard. The long term plan for Cleveland is pretty baffling.

Odds are the team should be better next year. At minimum, the interior rush defense should be improved so guys like Kamara shouldn’t be scoring 6 TDs on us. My best guess is the team is a wildcard team, which is about on par for a Zimmer odd year. If all the above goes right, this could be a deep playoff team but I think that’s a bit overly optimistic. Or maybe I’m overly pessimistic. To me, you build through the draft. Signing half the team with vets on one year deals seems like a desperation move. But I admit decades of getting burned has left me pretty jaded and skeptical of just about anything these days.

S197 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 20, 2021 2:42 am On paper things certainly look improved but there’s still a lot that needs to go right for this team to turnaround. A lot of assumptions.

We assume Hunter will be back to 2019 form. But neck injuries are no joke. See Mike Hughes. Let’s also not forget that Barr is also coming off a serious peck injury. Wonnum and Weatherly don’t exactly strike fear in the hearts of anyone. And it’s not inconceivable they’re our starting DEs at some point.

Peterson isn’t coming with a time machine. Maybe in a zone scheme he’ll perform better but it remains to be seen. Peterson, Breeland, and Woods had some pretty significant regression last year. As did Tomlinson. The vet presence is nice but we could easily be grabbing these guys with their best years in the rear view mirror.

Our OL will likely have a rookie LT and a tackle playing out of position at guard. The long term plan for Cleveland is pretty baffling.

Odds are the team should be better next year. At minimum, the interior rush defense should be improved so guys like Kamara shouldn’t be scoring 6 TDs on us. My best guess is the team is a wildcard team, which is about on par for a Zimmer odd year. If all the above goes right, this could be a deep playoff team but I think that’s a bit overly optimistic. Or maybe I’m overly pessimistic. To me, you build through the draft. Signing half the team with vets on one year deals seems like a desperation move. But I admit decades of getting burned has left me pretty jaded and skeptical of just about anything these days.

A rookie at LT is a big gamble. K Mack is licking his chops. They screwed Cleveland over. I don't know every detail on the difference between T's and G's but typically a G will need to be a bigger and stronger player because of the size of the players he's going up against. Cleveland has said he is working on his strength. In a physical/contact sport I would prefer the bigger player. This is something they focused on this year. Bradbury gets his #### kicked when trying to be a pass blocker. I don't see that changing. But the moves on defense were desperation. They had no choice they needed players. IMO guys hit FA because the team they were with didn't want them. Of course one man's bag of #### is another man's bag of gold. If Rodgers is the same or better the Pack will win the division. If most of the stuff works for us we will be a wild card team. Below is from PFF regarding our 2021 OL.
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The two most important picks the Vikings made in the 2021 NFL Draft, at least in terms of immediate impact, were Virginia Tech left tackle Christian Darrisaw in the first round and Ohio State guard Wyatt Davis in the third.

Why? Because this may have been the final push needed to turn Minnesota's offensive line — perennially one of the worst in the league and a massive weakness — into an above-average unit. For the fourth straight year, the Vikings spent premium draft capital on the big guys up front. This time, they used more than one top-100 pick to address that weakness.

Both Darrisaw at 23 and Davis at 86 feel like steals. These are two big, strong, athletic linemen who will significantly improve the Vikings' O-line right away. Darrisaw has a chance to be an instant upgrade from Riley Reiff, at least in run blocking, while Davis's ability to anchor on the interior could make him the best guard Minnesota has had in quite some time.

VikingLord wrote: ↑Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:18 pm Sorry, but it can't be worse.

We learned the hard way that it can always be worse last season when Elf went down and Samia came in and was somehow worse.

LT certainly will be worse from a pass blocking standpoint, and there are no guarantees the guard play is better. In that scenario you have a worse Oline.

There is potential for better certainly, but this is the NFL and there are no guarantees.

Rhodes Closed wrote: ↑Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:36 am

fiestavike wrote: ↑Fri Jun 18, 2021 8:01 pm

Oh yes it can. Remember a few years ago? It was much worse several years in a row during the teen years.

It cannot be possibly any worse than 2016. At worst, it will be as bad as 2019 (in which we made playoffs), at best, it will be a top 15 offensive line. That is my prediction for this season.

With a top 5 defense this year, that is still a possibility of a Super Bowl.

The last time we had a top 5 defense was 2018. Is this defense as good as that one?