Vikings Message Board.Com

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 12:04 pm

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 5:24 am
Why do you feel the need to make things up? I gave a plan that had Cousins being traded in 2020 and Case being signed for cheap. The QB I liked who was available where we drafted was Jordan Love, and he was not a reach there, since he was drafted right after the Vikings 2nd 1st round pick.

ehhhhh was that it? Because last I remember you were the one saying you would've passed on Cousins and kept Case. I dont know maybe I'm mixing up two different conversations.

VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 2:14 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 12:04 pm

ehhhhh was that it? Because last I remember you were the one saying you would've passed on Cousins and kept Case. I dont know maybe I'm mixing up two different conversations. When I asked you for your GM expertise and wanted to see a plan, I remember you came up with an offseason where we overpaid a million free agents, held onto Diggs, kept some bigger washed up contracts on the team and drafted Jordan Love. Lets just say that whatever the heck you did, it wasnt a good plan. Whether you kept Case after 2017 or signed him after trading Cousins, you would've had Case on this roster longer than he needed to be. Again, Love is a raw project. Thats not even a 1 and done for Case. Thats multiple years of the current BROWNS BACKUP QB being our starter. All in hopes that this kid out of Utah St of all schools can even play by year 3.

But yes he was a reach. I'm not saying in terms of where he went vs. where we were picking. I'm saying talent wise, I dont think he warranted a first round pick at all. Played in a junk conference and his final year at Utah St. he threw 17 interceptions which is a ridiculous amount in college. No less he threw those 17 interceptions against XFL competition. Honestly, Kellen Mond being picked in the 3rd round or Kyle Trask being picked back end of the 2nd is way more value than Love in the 1st. No less, I think Mond and Trask are more pro ready than Love was anyways.

He was a project QB that GB reached for. Simple as that.

Jumping in here after the season Keenum had he wasn't going to sign cheap and he didn't sign cheap unless you consider $20 million cheap.

YikesVikes wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 3:09 pm

VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 1:56 pm
Here's from the dictionary. It uses a harsher word than bravado. Arrogant and aggressive.

walk or behave in a very confident and typically arrogant or aggressive way.
"he swaggered along the corridor"

a very confident and typically arrogant or aggressive gait or manner.
"they strolled around the camp with an exaggerated swagger"

Now I get that the meaning of words evolves over time and in a sports sense having swagger isn't necessarily bad, but if it just meant confidence than use the word confidence. It means more than confident. It implies a person thinking he/she is superior to others. Cocky. I think of it as bravado.

I did some further checking. Merriam Webster Dictionary Definition.

Definition of swagger (Entry 1 of 3)
intransitive verb

1: to conduct oneself in an arrogant or superciliously pompous manner
especially : to walk with an air of overbearing self-confidence

2: BOAST, BRAG

Swagger according to the dictionary is a very non complimentary term. Hence my preference for quiet confidence.

I found Bravado YES!!

Definition of swagger (Entry 2 of 3)
1a: an arrogantly self-confident way of walking : an act or instance of swaggering
b: arrogant or conceitedly self-assured behavior
c: ostentatious display or bravado
2: bold or brash self-confidence

The third form may be one that you Yikes Vikes will like a little better, but to me it still isn't good.

swagger adjective
Definition of swagger (Entry 3 of 3)
: marked by elegance or showiness : POSH

Swagger has also been incorporated into a slang term and that I assure you is the way Jefferson is using it and the way most people under 40 use it today.

VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 4:17 pm

YikesVikes wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 3:09 pm

Swagger has also been incorporated into a slang term and that I assure you is the way Jefferson is using it and the way most people under 40 use it today.

By every definition of the word that I see Swagger is not a good thing. If you want to think of it as a good thing be my guest.
I would assume Jefferson is using it in the adjective form. It's showiness/bravado. I think Jefferson likes Bravado. I don't.

YikesVikes wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 4:34 pm

VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 4:17 pm
By every definition of the word that I see Swagger is not a good thing. If you want to think of it as a good thing be my guest.
I would assume Jefferson is using it in the adjective form. It's showiness/bravado. I think Jefferson likes Bravado. I don't.

Again, you are using your def. He is using the slang version of the word. It has nothing to do with being bodacious but being confident, cool, and collected. People will say in the huddle Brady has a swagger about him. Kirk doesn't. Its about how a man carries himself. Kirk is a Rick Moranis and Brady is Brad Pitt (who is silently confident but dripping with swagger).

VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 2:14 pm Jumping in here after the season Keenum had he wasn't going to sign cheap and he didn't sign cheap unless you consider $20 million cheap.

VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 5:48 pm

YikesVikes wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 4:34 pm

Again, you are using your def. He is using the slang version of the word. It has nothing to do with being bodacious but being confident, cool, and collected. People will say in the huddle Brady has a swagger about him. Kirk doesn't. Its about how a man carries himself. Kirk is a Rick Moranis and Brady is Brad Pitt (who is silently confident but dripping with swagger).

I'm not using my Definition. I'm using every definition known and Merriam Webster is pretty up to date. I did the research and proved you wrong.
You debate in total bad faith making up the rules as you go. Swagger means whatever you say it means. Then you pull crap like calling Kirk Rick Moranis. Rick Moranis is cooler to me than Brad Pitt. However, you use Rick Moranis to basically call Kirk a dweeb and Brady who does not have swagger, but quiet confidence, is the hottest man on the planet. OK sure whatever you want.

A demeanor of confidence, coolness, and togetherness. Someone with Swagger gives of an ora of comfortability with his/her self

fiestavike wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 9:22 am Swagger is a negative in the old fashioned culture of a generally Judeo-Christian Liberal order. It's a positive on the football field, the boxing ring, and in many competitive endeavors, where 'brimming with confidence' is an asset.

It has broadly come to be accepted as a positive in our current broader culture and as a form of sexual currency. In short, women like it.

Without weighing into whether these current developments are good or bad, they are nonetheless cultural developments which have taken place. There is likely to be a generational divide on whether these things are virtues or character flaws.

VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 11:31 am

fiestavike wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 9:22 am Swagger is a negative in the old fashioned culture of a generally Judeo-Christian Liberal order. It's a positive on the football field, the boxing ring, and in many competitive endeavors, where 'brimming with confidence' is an asset.

It has broadly come to be accepted as a positive in our current broader culture and as a form of sexual currency. In short, women like it.

Without weighing into whether these current developments are good or bad, they are nonetheless cultural developments which have taken place. There is likely to be a generational divide on whether these things are virtues or character flaws.

Confidence is confidence. It's a good thing unless one takes it to negative extremes. Swagger is a neutral when it comes to sports. It neither enhances or detracts from the players performance. However, to act like swagger isn't showy, bravado, cockyness is just denying reality. If all it means is quiet confidence than just say quiet confidence. It absolutely without question has a boastful aspect.

YikesVikes wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 1:30 pm

VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 11:31 am

Confidence is confidence. It's a good thing unless one takes it to negative extremes. Swagger is a neutral when it comes to sports. It neither enhances or detracts from the players performance. However, to act like swagger isn't showy, bravado, cockyness is just denying reality. If all it means is quiet confidence than just say quiet confidence. It absolutely without question has a boastful aspect.

It has nothing to do with boasting but I think we are at an impasse. Im under 40 and I can tell you in the young black community, it doesn't mean boasting but it is about how one carries himself.

VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 2:24 pm

YikesVikes wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 1:30 pm

It has nothing to do with boasting but I think we are at an impasse. Im under 40 and I can tell you in the young black community, it doesn't mean boasting but it is about how one carries himself.

I presented evidence for what I was saying. You just say it means what you say it means with no evidence. However, from now on if I see you use the word I will know you are referring to a quiet non cocky confidence like Joe Montana (and Kirk Cousins), and not a brash, showy arrogance like Brett Favre, Johnny Manziel and Terry Bradshaw.

Spot & Stalk Vike wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 2:42 pm

VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 2:24 pm
I presented evidence for what I was saying. You just say it means what you say it means with no evidence. However, from now on if I see you use the word I will know you are referring to a quiet non cocky confidence like Joe Montana (and Kirk Cousins), and not a brash, showy arrogance like Brett Favre, Johnny Manziel and Terry Bradshaw.

Farve wasn't arrogant, not by any stretch. The guy loved the game like a kid does and was ultra competitive but arrogant....you're just making things up. To even put Manziel in the same sentence as Favre is a travesty and truly a reach for proving a point.

VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 3:31 pm

Spot & Stalk Vike wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 2:42 pm

Farve wasn't arrogant, not by any stretch. The guy loved the game like a kid does and was ultra competitive but arrogant....you're just making things up. To even put Manziel in the same sentence as Favre is a travesty and truly a reach for proving a point.

I thought Favre was a show off. I think that's a fair characterization of him. Maybe not so arrogant, but definitely annoying. I also put Favre in the company of Terry Bradshaw a four time Super Bowl Champ. I wanted to include Manziel to show that show offs aren't always successful like Favre and Bradshaw.
When Stefon Diggs was a Viking I loved his play, but I found his demonstrations of "look at me and how great I am" annoying as well. Some people, myself included, think that Diggs has swagger.

Spot & Stalk Vike wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 3:53 pm

VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 3:31 pm
I thought Favre was a show off. I think that's a fair characterization of him. Maybe not so arrogant, but definitely annoying. I also put Favre in the company of Terry Bradshaw a four time Super Bowl Champ. I wanted to include Manziel to show that show offs aren't always successful like Favre and Bradshaw.
When Stefon Diggs was a Viking I loved his play, but I found his demonstrations of "look at me and how great I am" annoying as well. Some people, myself included, think that Diggs has swagger.

I don't think being excited after a nice play or TD is showing off or arrogance.....JMO.