Vikings Message Board.Com

IrishViking wrote: Why not thoigh? If I legitmately believed that they were squandering two pro bowl level receivers I'd want them gone. Wasting talent doesnt will the Superbowl

Neither does firing a coach every time he displeases you. There's a bigger picture to consider and sometimes there are better ways to solve problems than just replacing people.

S197 wrote:I think he had an injury but was a healthy scratch towards the end of the year if I recall correctly.

That's correct.

IrishViking wrote: Why not thoigh? If I legitmately believed that they were squandering two pro bowl level receivers I'd want them gone. Wasting talent doesnt will the Superbowl

But they aren't squandering two pro bowl level WRs, there is no garauntee that the fans are right and that Johnson and Patterson are better then thr guys they are choosing to put out there instead.

IrishViking wrote:So fire Zimmer and Norv and bring in a staff that doesn't needlessly abuse their players and deny them play time?

Is that really what you think or are you just tryong to start something?

Cold is temporary. Purple Pride is forever.

IrishViking wrote:So fire Zimmer and Norv and bring in a staff that doesn't needlessly abuse their players and deny them play time?

Wait....huh?

My point is if someone here really thinks that Charles and Patterson are amazing offensive weapons that would succeed given even the shadow of a chance then those people should be extremely uncomfortable with Zimmer and Norv leading this team anymore, because clearly they have no idea how to evaluate offensive talent.

I doubt he could explode out of a 3 point stance. Not used to doing it. He would have to be a tailback with the hands on knees stance. Might be worth a shot to give him a few designed plays and see what happens. Most WR need a few steps before they can make quick moves, Rbs can do it almost from a 3 point stance, that's the difference between the two.

IrishViking wrote:My point is if someone here really thinks that Charles and Patterson are amazing offensive weapons that would succeed given even the shadow of a chance then those people should be extremely uncomfortable with Zimmer and Norv leading this team anymore, because clearly they have no idea how to evaluate offensive talent.

I don't know if anybody here thinks Johnson and Patterson are "amazing offensive weapons that would succeed given even the shadow of a chance" but they clearly have talent and playmaking ability, especially Patterson, whose speed and open field running ability are obviously exceptional. Some of us would just like to know why they were marginalized (Patterson for basically the entire season, Johnson for a sizable portion of it.

It's clear the coaching staff recognizes that those two players have talent so I don't think it's a talent evaluation problem. Maybe it's best described as a talent utilization question.

I think some of us are uncomfortable about the way the offense has been handled thus far under this coaching staff but there's a bigger picture to consider too. Not everything comes down to firing coaches benching players, releasing players, etc. Those are drastic measures and there are other ways to solve problems. In this case, the real problem for us fans is that we don't have enough information. It's possible the coaching staff has excellent reasons for their choices. If so, they've kept them to themselves.

I look back on plays made by both players in 2013 and 2014 and I find it hard to understand why a passing offense that struggled mightily to score points didn't try to make more use of their skills and abilities.

Mothman wrote: I don't know if anybody here thinks Johnson and Patterson are "amazing offensive weapons that would succeed given even the shadow of a chance" but they clearly have talent and playmaking ability, especially Patterson, whose speed and open field running ability are obviously exceptional. Some of us would just like to know why they were marginalized (Patterson for basically the entire season, Johnson for a sizable portion of it.

It's clear the coaching staff recognizes that those two players have talent so I don't think it's a talent evaluation problem. Maybe it's best described as a talent utilization question.

I think some of us are uncomfortable about the way the offense has been handled thus far under this coaching staff but there's a bigger picture to consider too. Not everything comes down to firing coaches benching players, releasing players, etc. Those are drastic measures and there are other ways to solve problems. In this case, the real problem for us fans is that we don't have enough information. It's possible the coaching staff has excellent reasons for their choices. If so, they've kept them to themselves.

I look back on plays made by both players in 2013 and 2014 and I find it hard to understand why a passing offense that struggled mightily to score points didn't try to make more use of their skills and abilities.

They've also shown it to the media in the media film sessions, clearly illustrating why patterson is not on the field.

There have also been intimations that he doesn't cut it in the meeting rooms, and the team has a standard that players who don't cut it in the meeting rooms don't get to play.

I think those two things probably pretty much answer the great "mystery" as to why patterson doesn't get snaps despite his ability.

fiestavike wrote:
I think those two things probably pretty much answer the great "mystery" as to why patterson doesn't get snaps despite his ability.

I'm calling shenanigans. Johnson in particular, coming into 2015, was a tossup as the Vikings labeled #1 even after they signed Wallace. He started the season, got hurt, and then slowly and under the radar kind of went unnoticed after the digs explosion, which helped cover up this increasingly odd chain of events.

And then in his last presser someone asked Zim about it. Do me a favor, look at Zimmers demeanor when asked about Turner, the offense, and Johnson. Go look at the presser and tell me he's not holding back and making faces. This man is obviously not happy with his offense and Turner. What I don't get is why he's letting him ruin it.

Then when asked why he wasn't active (Johnson) he got a bit dodgy, which you almost never see him do, and said "well I just wanted to carry more defensive players". Really? You have a 29th ranked offense and you want to carry an extra linebacker or whatever over a playmaker?

He might be loyal to a fault but you can't hide mannerisms to that extent. Meetings wont get explosive playmakers benched, I don't care if you play for the dark lord of the sith in New England or Even cell block A in Cincinnati. Patterson either rubbed Turner the wrong way or he's not doing things perfect and giving them an excuse to single him out. And god knows why the hell Johnson was benched

Boon wrote: I'm calling shenanigans. Johnson in particular, coming into 2015, was a tossup as the Vikings labeled #1 even after they signed Wallace. He started the season, got hurt, and then slowly and under the radar kind of went unnoticed after the digs explosion, which helped cover up this increasingly odd chain of events.

And then in his last presser someone asked Zim about it. Do me a favor, look at Zimmers demeanor when asked about Turner, the offense, and Johnson. Go look at the presser and tell me he's not holding back and making faces. This man is obviously not happy with his offense and Turner. What I don't get is why he's letting him ruin it.

Then when asked why he wasn't active (Johnson) he got a bit dodgy, which you almost never see him do, and said "well I just wanted to carry more defensive players". Really? You have a 29th ranked offense and you want to carry an extra linebacker or whatever over a playmaker?

He might be loyal to a fault but you can't hide mannerisms to that extent. Meetings wont get explosive playmakers benched, I don't care if you play for the dark lord of the sith in New England or Even cell block A in Cincinnati. Patterson either rubbed Turner the wrong way or he's not doing things perfect and giving them an excuse to single him out. And god knows why the hell Johnson was benched

If the gameplan involves 2 TEs 6 Linemen and Fullback in various configurations, you are seldom going to have more than 2 WRs on the field at a time. Thielen/Patterson offer special teams value. Why bother bringing your #6 WR instead of depth that can contribute on ST...especially when your LB depth is already shallow?

fiestavike wrote:They've also shown it to the media in the media film sessions, clearly illustrating why patterson is not on the field.

There have also been intimations that he doesn't cut it in the meeting rooms, and the team has a standard that players who don't cut it in the meeting rooms don't get to play.

I think those two things probably pretty much answer the great "mystery" as to why patterson doesn't get snaps despite his ability.

Zimmer's exasperation with him is clear so there's a lack of accountability somewhere when it comes to Patterson. He's obviously not doing something Zimmer wants to see him do. Maybe that's studying and grasping the playbook. Perhaps it's something else. I don't see it as a great mystery, it's just frustrating. I wish we knew the exact nature of the problem(s) and what, if anything, is being done by both Patterson and the coaching staff to improve the situation. It would just be nice to know exactly what's going on, how it's being handled, and if there's any reasonable hope for progress. I don't expect that kind of information to become available but getting "the straight dope", as they used to say, would eliminate all of the speculation.

As it is, I expect to see Patterson spend another season with the Vikings returning kickoffs and maintaining a low profile with the press and then he'll likely be playing elsewhere.

Mothman wrote: Zimmer's exasperation with him is clear so there's a lack of accountability somewhere when it comes to Patterson. He's obviously not doing something Zimmer wants to see him do. Maybe that's studying and grasping the playbook. Perhaps it's something else. I don't see it as a great mystery, it's just frustrating. I wish we knew the exact nature of the problem(s) and what, if anything, is being done by both Patterson and the coaching staff to improve the situation. It would just be nice to know exactly what's going on, how it's being handled, and if there's any reasonable hope for progress. I don't expect that kind of information to become available but getting "the straight dope", as they used to say, would eliminate all of the speculation.

As it is, I expect to see Patterson spend another season with the Vikings returning kickoffs and maintaining a low profile with the press and then he'll likely be playing elsewhere.

I find it frustrating too. Zimmer has made it extremely clear that from his point of view its 100% on Patterson at this point. He said the same thing after this season that he did after last season. Its up to Cordarelle if he wants to be an NFL WR or just a KR. Cordarelle seems pretty happy just being a KR, but I retain a sliver of hope he will find the desire to do more and get it together this offseason.

fiestavike wrote: I find it frustrating too. Zimmer has made it extremely clear that from his point of view its 100% on Patterson at this point. He said the same thing after this season that he did after last season. Its up to Cordarelle if he wants to be an NFL WR or just a KR. Cordarelle seems pretty happy just being a KR, but I retain a sliver of hope he will find the desire to do more and get it together this offseason.

Exactly! The press conference last year when Patterson was benched? Replaced with a player off the Browns practice squad. He was pretty clear who that was on, Patterson. Fighting for the ball, route running. He's exasperated with Patterson being a giant bust.

And this idea Johnson is a "playmaker"? Diggs first four starts where better than any four starts in Johnson's career. There's a reason he didn't get the job back. And it's not because Norv is blind. Look at how he finished last year, and started this one. And how Diggs started?

I wonder if Zimmer will try to set Patterson up with Irvin again?

Cold is temporary. Purple Pride is forever.

PurpleMustReign wrote:I wonder if Zimmer will try to set Patterson up with Irvin again?

Cold is temporary. Purple Pride is forever.

I'm guessing that ship has sailed.