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Re: Kluwe rips Frazier, Spielman, Priefer
Posted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 4:47 pm
by Just Me
Mothman wrote:
The reason there's no other way to perceive the story is because Kluwe's story is all we have. There's no compelling reason to assume he's providing facts. There's no real context here beyond what Kluwe himself has provided and what was reported in the media at the time all of this supposedly occurred. None of us know Kluwe personally but he seems like a person with integrity. I suspect he actually is such a person and it wouldn't surprise me at all to learn that his comments about Priefer were on the mark or at least close to it because people with nasty attitudes and unprofessional behavior certainly exist. However, the fact remains, we have one perspective from one individual and that individual has every reason to be biased. That doesn't mean he is biased, wrong, lying or fabricating but when we start taking the kind of accusations he's making at face value and assuming they're facts, we start down a very slippery slope.
The general public isn't required to adhere to the same "innocent until proven guilty" standard that our court system (thankfully) must uphold but it's still a good policy. Not one of us would want to be wrongly accused of something that could cost us our jobs and severely damage our reputations. Not one of us would want to be publicly labeled a coward for simply doing our job, as Spielman and Frazier may have been doing. The nature of Kluwe's accusations make it hard to give Priefer the benefit of the doubt but it's precisely in such situations that the benefit of the doubt is needed most.
I don't want to live in a society where all someone has to do is point and say "witch" and the stake and matches come out. We need to be better than that.
Well said. As more information comes out, it certainly seems to support Kluwe's initial accusations, but it sounds as though the Wilfs will look into the matter. I wouldn't expect any other answer other than "it is against policy" from the Vikings (so I'm not sure how accurate that would be) but if the Wilfs were supportive of Kluwe's cause, it seems to me he should get a fair shot at having his grievances heard. Hope that is the case...
Re: Kluwe rips Frazier, Spielman, Priefer
Posted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 4:48 pm
by saint33
I don't even get why we need to debate how it "should" have been handled. To me that's not the issue here at all.
Re: Kluwe rips Frazier, Spielman, Priefer
Posted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 4:53 pm
by Just Me
saint33 wrote:I don't even get why we need to debate how it "should" have been handled. To me that's not the issue here at all.
1) It helps support Kluwe's credibility and reduces the thought that he is being 'vindictive' (as opposed to just accurate)
2) Indirectly, you are suggesting the end justifies the means.
Re: Kluwe rips Frazier, Spielman, Priefer
Posted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 4:56 pm
by chicagopurple
Kluwe has always been out-spoken about important issues. He is extremley intelligent and has a biting sense of humor. He is not a frivolous person. He was a great punter for a bit then became just average but with a high price-tag. We havent replaced him with anyone better, or anyone who has out-performed him at his peak (big surprise, eh, Vikings failing to upgrade).
He has proven to be a very ethical person who is willing to speak out for others who are being mistreated. He doesnt stand to make any cash by doing so.
He is right to expose this asst. coach as being the self-righteous dirt bag that he is. It is YET ANOTHER FAILURE BY LESLIE that he allowed this kind of crap to occur in HIS LOCKER ROOM, by HIS Assistant.
Winning a game is important, but being a reasonably ethical person is more so. Leslie and his staff have failed at BOTH ethics AND Success on the field.
Re: Kluwe rips Frazier, Spielman, Priefer
Posted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 4:56 pm
by The Breeze
I don't want to live in a society where all someone has to do is point and say "witch" and the stake and matches come out. We need to be better than that.
That's pretty much what Chris Kluwe has been saying all along, Jim.
Substitute stake and matches for island and nuclear glow.
I think Kluwe understands that laws and courts cannot and will not stop bigotry/hatred and intolerance.
I don't think his option of going to ownership in the midst of a playoff run was not in his or the teams best interest. His desire was to make it widely known that Priefer espouses the views he does.
right or wrong, mission accomplished.
Re: Kluwe rips Frazier, Spielman, Priefer
Posted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 4:59 pm
by Just Me
The Breeze wrote:
That's pretty much what Chris Kluwe has been saying all along, Jim.
Substitute stake and matches for island and nuclear glow.
Again, this
assumes Kluwe is accurate. That was the point.
Re: Kluwe rips Frazier, Spielman, Priefer
Posted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 5:07 pm
by Mothman
The Breeze wrote:
That's pretty much what Chris Kluwe has been saying all along, Jim.
... and I agree with him.
I think Kluwe understands that laws and courts cannot and will not stop bigotry/hatred and intolerance.
Neither can Chris Kluwe. I just don't believe in replacing one social injustice (bigotry) with another (the assumption of guilt based on nothing more than accusation).
IF Kluwe has successfully exposed a bigoted coach who deserves to held accountable for his behavior then good for Kluwe. I'd just prefer to withhold judgment on whether that's what has happened until there's enough information to actually make that determination.
I don't think his option of going to ownership in the midst of a playoff run was in his or the teams best interest.
That playoff run ended almost a year ago and months before he was released from the team. He could have gone to ownership, the NFL, a reputable journalist, etc. at any time during those months or at any time in the past year. Instead, he wrote an attack piece for Deadspin and threw Frazier and Spielman under the bus he was steering at Priefer.
Re: Kluwe rips Frazier, Spielman, Priefer
Posted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 5:11 pm
by The Breeze
Just Me wrote:
Again, this assumes Kluwe is accurate. That was the point.
Suppose you witness a crime and the only evidence you have is your word against the culprit. Like a harassment case with a boss.
With no actual physical evidence to support the crime......what do you do?
Re: Kluwe rips Frazier, Spielman, Priefer
Posted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 5:17 pm
by Westgaard66
I think the Vikes may have an Incognito style #### coming their way.
Unfortunately, I have a feeling this is going to get uglier before it gets better, especially if other players start coming forward.
My question is this, if priefer is such a huge bigot, don't you think instances from prior to the Kluwe claims will surface? I mean, tigers can't change their stripes.
if Kluwe's claims are not substantiated by the word of a least one more player and the claims by Kluwe are the only ones that surface, then it can only be taken as a outspoken crybaby with sour grapes.
The last line of the letter puts motive for Kluwe to make it all up as well.
Honestly, I hope one of two things happens, either:
1.) Priefer's bigoted distasteful actions are substantiated and he's canned, never to be heard of again
Or
2.) they aren't, and Priefer sues the crap out of Kluwe for defamation of character, and we never hear from him again.
Re: Kluwe rips Frazier, Spielman, Priefer
Posted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 5:20 pm
by Westgaard66
The Breeze wrote:
Suppose you witness a crime and the only evidence you have is your word against the culprit. Like a harassment case with a boss.
With no actual physical evidence to support the crime......what do you do?
Well, Kluwe claims there ARE witnesses, so that scenario really doesn't fit.
You would think that at least 1 of the 15+ special teams guys would back Kluwe if these claims were true.
Re: Kluwe rips Frazier, Spielman, Priefer
Posted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 5:22 pm
by King James
There are two sides to every story. I think Chris Kluwe is still feeling salty because he got cut. I think he got cut mainly due to his performance and the media attention just added fuel to the fire. Had be been kicking like Jeff Locke last year, they probably wouldn't care what he said as long as he was performing well. It's not like Frazier and Spielman told him that his views are wrong. They just told him the way he was going about it was not professional, and it wasn't. Kluwe is like a spoiled little kid who talks back to his parents when they don't agree with him, and tries to justify how they are being bad parents because of it.
He failed to realize that as a football player, everything he says to the media will affect the team. There are ways to go about things without being loud about it. As for Mike Priefer, I don't know if he truly felt that way, or he was just speaking out of frustration to get Kluwe just to STFU for once.
The only bigot here is Chris Kluwe. He's loud and obnoxious. He actually has the nerve to think he was cut soley based on his views and not the piss poor punting averages last year. I'm glad he's gone. Locke is a better punter than he ever was anyway.
Re: Kluwe rips Frazier, Spielman, Priefer
Posted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 5:23 pm
by dead_poet
Westgaard66 wrote:My question is this, if priefer is such a huge bigot, don't you think instances from prior to the Kluwe claims will surface? I mean, tigers can't change their stripes.
Some have already (in a way). Somebody posted Twitter posts of his kid that contain homophobic references. Not him, exactly. Also know this story is only a few hours old. I'm sure somebody's looking into Priefer's past. But just because someone didn't overhear him saying things at previous jobs doesn't mean he didn't use them now.
if Kluwe's claims are not substantiated by the word of a least one more player and the claims by Kluwe are the only ones that surface, then it can only be taken as a outspoken crybaby with sour grapes.
Or it can be taken as players not wanting to comment out of fear for their jobs or fear of causing a locker room issue.
Re: Kluwe rips Frazier, Spielman, Priefer
Posted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 5:29 pm
by The Breeze
Westgaard66 wrote:
Well, Kluwe claims there ARE witnesses, so that scenario really doesn't fit.
You would think that at least 1 of the 15+ special teams guys would back Kluwe if these claims were true.
You would think someone will come forward either way. And the process has started.
The whole point is bringing this into the public domain so that no one can be "fired for reasons that were detrimental to the team"....or, "we just decided that we needed to go in another direction". Meanwhile, Priefer gets another job....maybe with more influence....maybe with younger kids.
I think Kluwe thought really hard about this.
Seems poetic to me.
Re: Kluwe rips Frazier, Spielman, Priefer
Posted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 5:30 pm
by mmvikes
I don't really give a crap what Kluwe says or thinks
Re: Kluwe rips Frazier, Spielman, Priefer
Posted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 5:30 pm
by NextQuestion
Curious about the 2012 special teams roster outside of Harvin, Sherels, Kluwe, and Walsh...Sanford?