Vikings QB of the future search list

[dead_poet]

Thanks for posting these quotes. Very interesting takes. It will be interesting to see what the Bears do and whether they choose to cash in on McCown's perceived increase in value.

No problem.

Not sure what they have to cash in on? He's a free agent in 2014.

[Mothman]

McCown is an amazing story--the very definition of journeyman. Sometimes it just takes that long for things to fully click. I sometimes wonder if in ten years after playing in non-NFL leagues (like McCown) and a half dozen NFL teams, Christian Ponder will FINALLY figure it out. Honestly? I doubt it, but who knows. I do know, however, that this team can't sit around and wait for it to happen anymore.

I agree but I won't be surprised at all if, by the time Ponder is in his 30s, he's capable of doing just what McCown has done in Chicago this season. As you said, sometimes it takes that long for things to fully click.

[Texas Vike]

No problem.

Not sure what they have to cash in on? He's a free agent in 2014.

I see. The Bears are going to be faced w/ a conundrum at QB after this season. Maybe even later this season if Cutler comes back and doesn't look as good as McCown has.

[dead_poet]

I see. The Bears are going to be faced w/ a conundrum at QB after this season. Maybe even later this season if Cutler comes back and doesn't look as good as McCown has.

Perhaps, but after the season I don't see their conundrum being Cutler or McCown. It'll be either Cutler or rookie, with McCown possibly being brought back to compete. McCown isn't their future. He's barely their present.

[Texas Vike]

Perhaps, but after the season I don't see their conundrum being Cutler or McCown. It'll be either Cutler or rookie, with McCown possibly being brought back to compete. McCown isn't their future. He's barely their present.

He's barely their present? Whoa. Seriously? Are they thinking about taking McCown out in favor of third stringer Jordan Palmer?

Or do you mean that once Cutler's back (soon) he's history: ergo, barely their present?

He's had some very solid games this season; I'd be surprised if no one wants to kick his tires when he hits free agency.

[dead_poet]

Or do you mean that once Cutler's back (soon) he's history: ergo, barely their present?

This one.

He's had some very solid games this season; I'd be surprised if no one wants to kick his tires when he hits free agency.

Sure has. He'll generate interest. I wouldn't be surprised if he re-upped with the Bears. But I WOULD be surprised (shocked) if he was named their starter in 2014.

[mondry]

And that's why Ponder, Cutler, Bridgewater, Brady, Manning, and Montanna would all bust in purple. We don't "protect the QB", our coaches are completely clueless in the passing game. We don't even try to get our QB involved in the game, only and I do mean ONLY if the running game and defense fails enough to FORCE it due to a deficit. Otherwise we're usually quite content to run 2 out of 3 plays before a punt is in order.

In fact in 13 games this year, the Vikings QB has only had more yards passing than the opposing team's QB two times. One was against GB where they used two different QB's so 233 yards was enough to take that one and the other was the very last game where Cassel out performed Flacco in a blizzard.

Our coaches and systems make guys like Ponder look like total busts, mean while other franchises can get guys like Cutler and Mccown to look like probowlers, what a nightmare!

I don't know if dead_poet realizes it or not but the fact that he says it's the bears SYSTEM that makes those guys look good is kind of a back handed way to say our system probably blows. Josh Mccown would probably suck here, well, yeah, so does every QB we ever get with these clown coaches and systems lol.

[J. Kapp 11]

Tell you what, Jim.

I agree completely with your reasoning, and normally I'd say it can't happen, that teams would tank on purpose.

But then you have the curious case of Mike Shanahan and the Washington Redskins. Shanny has said we wants to sit RGIII for the rest of the season, even thought there are reports circulating that Shanahan is in trouble. Sure seems to me that a coach on the hot seat would never sit a healthy RGIII with three games remaining UNLESS, as you said, he knows his job is secure. From where I sit, the Skins are tanking for the top pick.

That being said, I also think it's despicable.


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[Mothman]

Tell you what, Jim.

I agree completely with your reasoning, and normally I'd say it can't happen, that teams would tank on purpose.

But then you have the curious case of Mike Shanahan and the Washington Redskins. Shanny has said we wants to sit RGIII for the rest of the season, even thought there are reports circulating that Shanahan is in trouble. Sure seems to me that a coach on the hot seat would never sit a healthy RGIII with three games remaining UNLESS, as you said, he knows his job is secure. From where I sit, the Skins are tanking for the top pick.

I think that situation might represent a coach who doesn't care that he's on the hot seat because he wants out but you're right, it IS a curious case.

[mondry]

Tell you what, Jim.

I agree completely with your reasoning, and normally I'd say it can't happen, that teams would tank on purpose.

But then you have the curious case of Mike Shanahan and the Washington Redskins. Shanny has said we wants to sit RGIII for the rest of the season, even thought there are reports circulating that Shanahan is in trouble. Sure seems to me that a coach on the hot seat would never sit a healthy RGIII with three games remaining UNLESS, as you said, he knows his job is secure. From where I sit, the Skins are tanking for the top pick.

That being said, I also think it's despicable.


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The problem is they don't have a top pick, that pick belongs to the rams due to that very RG3 trade. What's actually happening is Shanahan wants out, he's TRYING to get fired, if you haven't read the story, which I'm sure shanahan's own guys leaked, he was essentially going to leave last year, but when Rg3 got hurt it would look too bad like he abandoned them after the star QB got hurt.

He might sit Rg3 cause he knows it would piss Snyder off (think that's his name) enough to perhaps fire him and he can collect a pay check on the couch.

[akvikingsfan]

I think that situation might represent a coach who doesn't care that he's on the hot seat because he wants out but you're right, it IS a curious case.

Could be trying to raise the stock of Cousins for trading purposes?

[dead_poet]

I don't know if dead_poet realizes it or not but the fact that he says it's the bears SYSTEM that makes those guys look good is kind of a back handed way to say our system probably blows. Josh Mccown would probably suck here, well, yeah, so does every QB we ever get with these clown coaches and systems lol.

Just because I praise one system doesn't necessarily mean that ours "blows" by default. It's not predicated on the pass and does not really work in favor of high quarterback stats. One must also take into account the Adrian Peterson factor.

Yes, McCown would probably suck here. He'd suck a lot of places. That's what I'm saying. The right person with the right scheme can certainly be successful.

FWIW, I'm not a big fan of the offensive scheme, however it's not like it can't be an effective one. The system produced one of the best rushing outputs of a generation and a playoff birth. With a quarterback/receiver upgrade, I fully believe that scheme could've led the team deep into the playoffs. Could Peterson have rushed for even more yards with another scheme last season? It's easy to say yes, but we'll never know. He's probably one of those guys (like Manning and Rodgers) that are scheme-proof, meaning able to be quite successful with any scheme. However it was Musgrave's last season that led to those historic stats, and we can hardly fault Musgrave for helping him achieve it.

[dead_poet]

I think that situation might represent a coach who doesn't care that he's on the hot seat because he wants out but you're right, it IS a curious case.

That's the word on the streets.

[Mothman]

And that's why Ponder, Cutler, Bridgewater, Brady, Manning, and Montanna would all bust in purple. We don't "protect the QB", our coaches are completely clueless in the passing game. We don't even try to get our QB involved in the game, only and I do mean ONLY if the running game and defense fails enough to FORCE it due to a deficit. Otherwise we're usually quite content to run 2 out of 3 plays before a punt is in order.

In fact in 13 games this year, the Vikings QB has only had more yards passing than the opposing team's QB two times. One was against GB where they used two different QB's so 233 yards was enough to take that one and the other was the very last game where Cassel out performed Flacco in a blizzard.

Our coaches and systems make guys like Ponder look like total busts, mean while other franchises can get guys like Cutler and Mccown to look like probowlers, what a nightmare!

I don't know if dead_poet realizes it or not but the fact that he says it's the bears SYSTEM that makes those guys look good is kind of a back handed way to say our system probably blows. Josh Mccown would probably suck here, well, yeah, so does every QB we ever get with these clown coaches and systems lol.

He said the system was a "large part" of what was happening there but then added that "it helps when you have a couple of stud receivers and stud pass-catching RB".

If you watch the Bears and some of the spectacular catches Jeffery, Marshall and Bennett make, not to mention the time they've been giving their QBs to throw this season, I think it's clear that the system alone isn't what's making the QBs look good. It helps, and so does Trestman's sharp offensive coaching (as dead-poet said, he has a reputation for getting the best out of quarterbacks), but as always, the surrounding talent is a big factor too. The personnel moves they've made have had a big impact on the offense. Put simply, it's not the system that has led to success for Bears QBs this season, it's the combination of moves they made to improve their offense. They got the right offensive-minded coach, put a good system in place, rebuilt their line, added the pass-catching TE they needed to complement their two big outside receivers and, with Forte in the backfield, created a "pick your poison" problem for defenses. Without the right personnel, that system, like any system, won't work. If they were blocking up front like they did the last few years there's no way their offense would be as effective as it's been. However, with the right personnel, and a smart coach/playcalller, the QBs and the offense are looking very, very good.

It's the synergy of all those things working in combination that has been a problem for the Vikings. It's not just the coaches and systems. It starts with Spielman and goes right down through the coaching ranks to inconsistent execution by the players and the only way to fix it is to make the right changes at each level. That doesn't mean firing or cutting everybody but it does mean there needs to be some change in terms of both the coaching staff and the personnel and it all starts with Spielman and ownership.

[Mothman]

Just because I praise one system doesn't necessarily mean that ours "blows" by default. It's not predicated on the pass and does not really work in favor of high quarterback stats. One must also take into account the Adrian Peterson factor.

Yes, McCown would probably suck here. He'd suck a lot of places. That's what I'm saying. The right person with the right scheme can certainly be successful.

FWIW, I'm not a big fan of the offensive scheme, however it's not like it can't be an effective one. The system produced one of the best rushing outputs of a generation and a playoff birth. With a quarterback/receiver upgrade, I fully believe that scheme could've led the team deep into the playoffs. Could Peterson have rushed for even more yards with another scheme last season? It's easy to say yes, but we'll never know. He's probably one of those guys (like Manning and Rodgers) that are scheme-proof, meaning able to be quite successful with any scheme. However it was Musgrave's last season that led to those historic stats, and we can hardly fault Musgrave for helping him achieve it.

Well said. It's also worth pointing out that, despite all of their shortcomings, the Vikings are in the top half of the league in scoring. They're ranked #14 with 315 points but they're just one point behind 3 other teams (SF, GB and SD, who each have 316 points). I absolutely understand Mondry's frustration with Musgrave's tendency to slip into run, run, pass mode at times and I'd love to see the Vikes find an OC with Musgrave's talent for designing an offense but with better playcalling instincts. Nevertheless, despite all of the QB changes, turnovers, missed blocks, dropped passes, etc. the offense has been productive and Musgrave has to get some credit for that.

I think his scheme would look a lot better with a more talented, more experienced QB running it and more consistent pass blocking up front.