Did the Vikings cut Kluwe because of what he says?

[J. Kapp 11]

After all the angst over this change in punters, I'd like to see it end well for everyone involved.

I know, right?

Not sure I've ever seen so many threads about a punter who got cut.

[Eli]

... and if they didn't get rid of him just to get rid of him?

To be honest (we're all trying to be honest, aren't we?), I think the chances that this was purely a football decision are very close to zero. I think Kluwe's punting performance and age had little to do with what transpired. Only in the sense that his performance wasn't good enough to override the desire to get rid of him (as with Chris Cook) did it play a part.

[The Breeze]

Udder madness......

[PacificNorseWest]

To be honest (we're all trying to be honest, aren't we?), I think the chances that this was purely a football decision are very close to zero. I think Kluwe's punting performance and age had little to do with what transpired. Only in the sense that his performance wasn't good enough to override the desire to get rid of him (as with Chris Cook) did it play a part.

He was at the bottom of the league with punts inside the 20 and had some untimely shanks. He's been below-average for the last two years now. Kickers are so interchangeable that it's inexcusable NOT to do something about a punter with back to back poor years.

Being outspoken didn't help Kluwe, but I'm pretty sure this was a move to make the team better on the field.

[Mothman]

To be honest (we're all trying to be honest, aren't we?), I think the chances that this was purely a football decision are very close to zero. I think Kluwe's punting performance and age had little to do with what transpired. Only in the sense that his performance wasn't good enough to override the desire to get rid of him (as with Chris Cook) did it play a part.

You might be right. As I said earlier, there's not enough evidence to support a definitive answer so we're all basically choosing to believe what think is true. The truth might lie at one extreme or the other or somewhere in the middle.

[DanAS]

I don't think it's necessarily incumbent on them and, in fact, they may be wise to say nothing. Fans are going to believe what they want to believe about this move, regardless of what the Vikings say. If they come out and say something more, I could see that just fueling the controversy. The allegations you referred to seem to be based on the flimsiest of evidence (comments by Mike Priefer in one press conference that came in the wake of Kluwe drawing attention to his support of Ray Guy during a game, not in the wake of Kluwe's comments regarding social issues). There's little more than belief to support the idea that the team released Kluwe because they didn't like what he was saying (or because he was saying anything at all) and I doubt anything the Vikes could express would change such beliefs. They're a choice in the first place and many of those who want to believe the worst would likely see a denial by the Vikings as nothing more than spin.

I think the Vikings could have nipped controversy in the bud by saying the "right things" at the time of the release. Would some fans have still suspected the worst? Perhaps, but not as many, in my opinion. Speaking as a Vikings fan who liked Kluwe as a person, but not especially as a punter, I would have been "bought off" by hearing a few nice comments supporting him -- and they didn't even have to get into the substance of what he said, but only the way he spoke articulately and passionately about what he believed in. Then again, I doubt that teams want to encourage articulate and intelligent athletes to speak passionately about what they believe in. And that is ultimately why they said nothing and allowed some of us to look at them with eyes rolling.

Note, by the way, that I am not addressing Kluwe's comments about social issues. Let's say that the only thing he did was speak out about Ray Guy. The fact is that he was publicly called to task by a coach for his outspokenness. And to my knowledge, nobody on the Vikings has said a word of praise about his gift of gab. It's not a whole lot different from the way the Vikes treat their women beaters -- a single less than positive statement at a press conference followed by radio silence. Only Kluwe got fired, and some of the women beaters don't.

Just the facts.

[Mothman]

I think the Vikings could have nipped controversy in the bud by saying the "right things" at the time of the release. Would some fans have still suspected the worst? Perhaps, but not as many, in my opinion. Speaking as a Vikings fan who liked Kluwe as a person, but not especially as a punter, I would have been "bought off" by hearing a few nice comments supporting him -- and they didn't even have to get into the substance of what he said, but only the way he spoke articulately and passionately about what he believed in. Then again, I doubt that teams want to encourage articulate and intelligent athletes to speak passionately about what they believe in. And that is ultimately why they said nothing and allowed some of us to look at them with eyes rolling.

Note, by the way, that I am not addressing Kluwe's comments about social issues. Let's say that the only thing he did was speak out about Ray Guy. The fact is that he was publicly called to task by a coach for his outspokenness. And to my knowledge, nobody on the Vikings has said a word of praise about his gift of gab. It's not a whole lot different from the way the Vikes treat their women beaters -- a single less than positive statement at a press conference followed by radio silence. Only Kluwe got fired, and some of the women beaters don't.

Just the facts.

Dan, you can't take Kluwe's comments about social issues out of the equation because they are reason #1 that he's practically being treated like some sort of folk hero. The NFL is loaded with intelligent, articulate athletes and the Vikings have had their share of them over the decades, some of of whom have spoken out about social issues and/or personal beliefs. Doing so didn't get Alan Page, Robert Smith or Matt Birk cut and there's an argument to be made that if the Vikings felt Kluwe was as essential to them in a football sense as the "women beaters", he'd still be on the team. That may speak to this move being about football more than about Kluwe's willingness to speak his mind.

I think far too much has already been made about Priefer's comments. He briefly revealed his irritation with Kluwe and it was understandable that a ST coach would eventually get tired of being asked questions about his punter that have nothing to do with football. Priefer didn't take Kluwe to task for speaking out about Ray Guy, he took him to task for his method of expressing himself.

The Vikings had a reason or reasons to replace Kluwe. That's all we know. We can speculate forever about why he was cut. Maybe it was purely for football reasons. Maybe it's because he was outspoken. Maybe, as J. Kapp 11 posted above, it had something to do with the way he was outspoken because Kluwe, while intelligent and articulate, could also be profane and immature, which may be one of the reasons the Vikings never praised his "gift for gab". However, the Vikings haven't said why they cut him and there are probably good reasons for that. I doubt there's anything they could say that wouldn't be dismissed, dissected or turned on them because Kluwe's ardent supporters would be ready and willing to jump in and do all of the above. They're not happy that he's gone and nothing the Vikes could have said would have changed that.

[DanAS]

Dan, you can't take Kluwe's comments about social issues out of the equation because they are reason #1 that he's practically being treated like some sort of folk hero. The NFL is loaded with intelligent, articulate athletes and the Vikings have had their share of them over the decades, some of of whom have spoken out about social issues and/or personal beliefs. Doing so didn't get Alan Page, Robert Smith or Matt Birk cut and there's an argument to be made that if the Vikings felt Kluwe was as essential to them in a football sense as the "women beaters", he'd still be on the team. That may speak to this move being about football more than about Kluwe's willingness to speak his mind.

I think far too much has already been made about Priefer's comments. He briefly revealed his irritation with Kluwe and it was understandable that a ST coach would eventually get tired of being asked questions about his punter that have nothing to do with football. Priefer didn't take Kluwe to task for speaking out about Ray Guy, he took him to task for his method of expressing himself.

The Vikings had a reason or reasons to replace Kluwe. That's all we know. We can speculate forever about why he was cut. Maybe it was purely for football reasons. Maybe it's because he was outspoken. Maybe, as J. Kapp 11 posted above, it had something to do with the way he was outspoken because Kluwe, while intelligent and articulate, could also be profane and immature, which may be one of the reasons the Vikings never praised his "gift for gab". However, the Vikings haven't said why they cut him and there are probably good reasons for that. I doubt there's anything they could say that wouldn't be dismissed, dissected or turned on them because Kluwe's ardent supporters would be ready and willing to jump in and do all of the above. They're not happy that he's gone and nothing the Vikes could have said would have changed that.

Kluwe is indeed quite the folk hero where I live, and I still hear non-Vikes fan complain about firing him. As you know, however, about the only thing more important to me than religion and politics is football, and I am not a fan of an inconsistent punter who doesn't excel in any facet of the game inside the lines. So I agree -- replace him! I'm OK with that. All I'm talking about is that they could have done a better job with the press when the time came to replace him. And I say that as someone who is a bit miffed with them and wouldn't be at all "if they had such added a few nice voyds, just a little something." (I need my best yiddish accent to convey my point, but if you picture my bubby pinching your cheek and delivering the same message, perhaps you'll understand what I'm saying. Kluwe had his fans, that's for sure, and when it comes to off-the-field stuff, I was one of them. But yes - we don't need seven figures going to a mediocre punter.)

[Mothman]

Kluwe is indeed quite the folk hero where I live, and I still hear non-Vikes fan complain about firing him. As you know, however, about the only thing more important to me than religion and politics is football, and I am not a fan of an inconsistent punter who doesn't excel in any facet of the game inside the lines. So I agree -- replace him! I'm OK with that. All I'm talking about is that they could have done a better job with the press when the time came to replace him. And I say that as someone who is a bit miffed with them and wouldn't be at all "if they had such added a few nice voyds, just a little something." (I need my best yiddish accent to convey my point, but if you picture my bubby pinching your cheek and delivering the same message, perhaps you'll understand what I'm saying.There's no reason at all for the Vikings to praise Kluwe's gift for gab. As soon as they had done something like that, they'd be associating themselves with what he said

Kluwe had his fans, that's for sure, and when it comes to off-the-field stuff, I was one of them. But yes - we don't need seven figures going to a mediocre punter.)

Agreed and I do see your point about the Vikings at least saying some "voyds" to explain their decision. They didn't say much after Kluwe was released but Spielman did address some of the issues being discussed "head on" when they drafted Locke:

http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikin ... 39581.html

"It has nothing to do with anything Chris Kluwe is off the field," Spielman said. "When we're making decisions, we're purely making them based on trying to bring in the best competition possible, regardless of position. This was just another normal personnel move.

"It had nothing to do with Chris Kluwe off the field. I have no issues with [Kluwe]. If Chris Kluwe wants to express his opinion, that's his right. That's his freedom of speech. This is just a football decision to bring in a guy to compete."

As you can see, that didn't exactly convince anybody...

[jackal]

I think him wearing the button on the field and being a distraction to the team was a lot of it..

i think the way the new CBA works and pays veterans more was part of it ..

I think he didn't get along with some of the coaches..


I think his punting wasn't that great at times

[Funkytown]

Udder madness......

...is this some sort of...cow disease?

[Funkytown]

Furthermore, Kluwe's letter goes well beyond disrespect. It's laced with profanity, belittling, name calling, and mocking -- about the maturity level I'd expect from a 7th-grader with an advanced vocabulary. Don't know about y'all, but I was taught that if you want people to take you seriously, act like an adult.

I definitely understand where you are coming from, but that letter was. the. best. It may have been obnoxious, but it was beautiful. The guy on the receiving end deserved it--and then some.

I'm going to miss Kluwe's "KNOW YOUR VIKING!!!". (Those of you who attend the games will definitely know what I'm talking about). Cool guy. I miss him already.

[The Breeze]

...is this some sort of...cow disease?

It's a fanatical one....you'll have to read my other post in this thread to see if you are infected.

[DanAS]

As you can see, that didn't exactly convince anybody...

I had in mind not sending a message of "tolerating," or even "accepting" but rather, providing some modicum of appreciation for the fact that this was such a mentally lively guy who, for a few years, added a little more color to the purple. I would describe the above words as perfunctory.

And therein lies the problem. There really was a divide between those who merely put up with Kluwe's mouth and those who loved his outspokenness. The Vikes, in the end, come across as if they were in the former camp. And I am solidly in the latter camp, so they left me with a hollow feeling.

If it gives any perspective, and without getting into detail, I'm married to a person who says that she sees two sides of every public policy issue except for one, and that is the issue about which Kluwe was so outspoken (other than the Ray Guy issue -- my wife has probably never heard of Ray Guy). A lot of people I know feel very strongly about the "other" issue and most are on Kluwe's side. Given that, and given Kluwe's prominence as a spokesperson from the world of sports, when he is dismissed from his team with only a modicum of perfunctory verbiage, it creates a disconnect between a portion of the fan base and the team. But I guess part of that comes with the territory when you have outspoken athletes -- in the end, they are bound to offend someone. Fortunately, as everyone knows, when push comes to shove, we don't root for players or GMs -- we root for the laundry.

[Mothman]

I had in mind not sending a message of "tolerating," or even "accepting" but rather, providing some modicum of appreciation for the fact that this was such a mentally lively guy who, for a few years, added a little more color to the purple. I would describe the above words as perfunctory.

And therein lies the problem. There really was a divide between those who merely put up with Kluwe's mouth and those who loved his outspokenness. The Vikes, in the end, come across as if they were in the former camp. And I am solidly in the latter camp, so they left me with a hollow feeling.

If it gives any perspective, and without getting into detail, I'm married to a person who says that she sees two sides of every public policy issue except for one, and that is the issue about which Kluwe was so outspoken (other than the Ray Guy issue -- my wife has probably never heard of Ray Guy). A lot of people I know feel very strongly about the "other" issue and most are on Kluwe's side. Given that, and given Kluwe's prominence as a spokesperson from the world of sports, when he is dismissed from his team with only a modicum of perfunctory verbiage, it creates a disconnect between a portion of the fan base and the team. But I guess part of that comes with the territory when you have outspoken athletes -- in the end, they are bound to offend someone. Fortunately, as everyone knows, when push comes to shove, we don't root for players or GMs -- we root for the laundry.

... and now we have new laundry to cheer! That was the Vikings real plan to dilute the impact of cutting their popular punter. They released new uniforms to distract people!