Vikings at Saints Game Thread - Week Three

[Mothman]

Well yeah. Zimmer made adjustments and they flustered Brees. We all know Frazier wouldn't have done that.

At what point are people going to stop feeling the need to do this? Frazier made adjustments. All coaches make adjustments. Sometimes they work and sometimes they don't.

I'm curious, having not seen too much of the game yet, does anybody know what sort of adjustments might have actually been made to slow the Saints down after those first two drives? Were there actually visible, schematic or alignment differences that anybody caught or are we just assuming Zimmer did something? I'm not doubting that he did because, as I said, all coaches make adjustments. If people are assuming did Zimmer did something, it's probably a safe assumption. I'd just like to know if it is an assumption or if people or if there was something particular that was noticeable. Zimmer certainly couldn't have been happy with what he saw from the Vikings defense to start the game.

[Leafman]

They appeared to be mainly alignment/angle-of-attack adjustments, although schematically I noticed they also tweaked their demonstration and execution of gap/edge threats.

LEAFMAN THE PURPLE FAN

[PurpleMustReign]

They appeared to be mainly alignment/angle-of-attack adjustments, although schematically I noticed they also tweaked their demonstration and execution of gap/edge threats.

LEAFMAN THE PURPLE FAN

I think they brought more pressure too... I seem to recall Brees having to run around a bit.

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[Pondering Her Percy]

At what point are people going to stop feeling the need to do this? Frazier made adjustments. All coaches make adjustments. Sometimes they work and sometimes they don't.

I'm curious, having not seen too much of the game yet, does anybody know what sort of adjustments might have actually been made to slow the Saints down after those first two drives? Were there actually visible, schematic or alignment differences that anybody caught or are we just assuming Zimmer did something? I'm not doubting that he did because, as I said, all coaches make adjustments. If people are assuming did Zimmer did something, it's probably a safe assumption. I'd just like to know if it is an assumption or if people or if there was something particular that was noticeable. Zimmer certainly couldn't have been happy with what he saw from the Vikings defense to start the game.

Zimmer said he did in his press conference. I'm not just coming up with this off the top of my head. He tried to throw something at them in the beginning and it didn't work as planned. I'm still curious to why you defend Frazier. Making an adjustment would prevent 56 points being put on you one way or another. It might not help a ton because his Tampa 2 defense is a joke but there are ways to prevent 56 points. That's downright embarrassing. If you can't figure out a way to stop a beating like that then there are some serious issues.

It looked like we were going to get blown out in the beginning of the game and what happened? Adjustments were made, we sent blitzes to get more pressure on brees (another thing Frazier didn't do as often) and we held them in check the rest of the game for the most part.

Frazier sat there and let teams nickel and dime us all the way down the field and depended way too much on our defensive line. Even Brian Robison spoke out about it.

It's not like I'm making this up....it's just clear as day

[Mothman]

They appeared to be mainly alignment/angle-of-attack adjustments, although schematically I noticed they also tweaked their demonstration and execution of gap/edge threats.

Thanks, Leafman!

[Leafman]

It might not help a ton because his Tampa 2 defense is a joke but there are ways to prevent 56 points. That's downright embarrassing. If you can't figure out a way to stop a beating like that then there are some serious issues.

It looked like we were going to get blown out in the beginning of the game and what happened? Adjustments were made, we sent blitzes to get more pressure on brees (another thing Frazier didn't do as often) and we held them in check the rest of the game for the most part.

Frazier sat there and let teams nickel and dime us all the way down the field and depended way too much on our defensive line. Even Brian Robison spoke out about it.

It's not like I'm making this up....it's just clear as day

I agree that Frazier was sub-par when it came to *executing* adjustments, but it's not like he didn't try to make them. And the Tampa-2 defense is not a joke ... it has been, and can be, a very effective defensive scheme. Ever heard of the "Steel Curtain" of the 1970s?? That was the "Tampa 2" defense! However, it requires three things to be very effective:

1) an extremely skilled Middle Linebacker.
2) excellent speed and tackling skills in the Secondary, especially at the Safety positions.
3) a consistent, disruptive pass rush, especially from the inside tackle position to force the QB out of the pocket.

With all due respect to Kevin Williams who was a great defensive tackle, the Vikings had none of these during Frazier's tenure, so his mistake was deploying a scheme that we did not have the personnel to properly execute. Put Studwell in the middle, Joey Browner at safety, and John Randle at tackle, and Frazier would have looked like a genius.

LEAFMAN THE PURPLE FAN

[Mothman]

Zimmer said he did in his press conference. I'm not just coming up with this off the top of my head. He tried to throw something at them in the beginning and it didn't work as planned. I'm still curious to why you defend Frazier.

I defend him because I think people say things about him that simply aren't true. It isn't accurate to say he didn't make adjustments. Sometimes they weren't effective and sometimes they were but there's no doubt that he made them. There's also no doubt that there were many games when he was HC or DC when teams would score early against the Vikes, just as the Saints did Sunday, and then the defense would make some adjustments and slow things down.

[Thaumaturgist]

If you can't figure out a way to stop a beating like that then there are some serious issues.

And some of those issues may have something to do with the level of talent you have on defense. More than likely it's not all coaching.

[Pondering Her Percy]

I defend him because I think people say things about him that simply aren't true. It isn't accurate to say he didn't make adjustments. Sometimes they weren't effective and sometimes they were but there's no doubt that he made them. There's also no doubt that there were many games when he was HC or DC when teams would score early against the Vikes, just as the Saints did Sunday, and then the defense would make some adjustments and slow things down.

Well he didn't slow much down being dead last in pass defense last year. I'm sure he "tried" to make adjustments but as it has been proven, those adjustments aren't very effective.

[Pondering Her Percy]

I agree that Frazier was sub-par when it came to *executing* adjustments, but it's not like he didn't try to make them. And the Tampa-2 defense is not a joke ... it has been, and can be, a very effective defensive scheme. Ever heard of the "Steel Curtain" of the 1970s?? That was the "Tampa 2" defense! However, it requires three things to be very effective:

1) an extremely skilled Middle Linebacker.
2) excellent speed and tackling skills in the Secondary, especially at the Safety positions.
3) a consistent, disruptive pass rush, especially from the inside tackle position to force the QB out of the pocket.

With all due respect to Kevin Williams who was a great defensive tackle, the Vikings had none of these during Frazier's tenure, so his mistake was deploying a scheme that we did not have the personnel to properly execute. Put Studwell in the middle, Joey Browner at safety, and John Randle at tackle, and Frazier would have looked like a genius.

LEAFMAN THE PURPLE FAN

Using a defense that was successful in the 1970s is a pretty poor example. The league has changed immensely since then. Tampa 2 defense is on the outs. Even Gruden said it a few weeks ago. Being a pass heavy league now, a Tampa 2 exploits way too many gaps in a defense.

[Pondering Her Percy]

And some of those issues may have something to do with the level of talent you have on defense. More than likely it's not all coaching.

Never said it was ALL coaching but that is a big part of it. With the defensive backfield he has in Tampa bay, giving up 56 is pathetic. So what's his excuse there?

[Mothman]

Well he didn't slow much down being dead last in pass defense last year

No, but that wasn't the only season he coached for the Vikings.

[soflavike]

A perfect summary of the game:

The Minnesota Vikings At The New Orleans Saints*: Ten Things The NFL Doesn’t Want YOU To Know!

http://www.dailynorseman.com/2014/9/20/ ... gs-the-nfl

[Leafman]

Using a defense that was successful in the 1970s is a pretty poor example. The league has changed immensely since then. Tampa 2 defense is on the outs. Even Gruden said it a few weeks ago. Being a pass heavy league now, a Tampa 2 exploits way too many gaps in a defense.

It was highly successful in the 1970s. It was highly successful again from 1995-2003 when Dungy deployed it in Tampa, thus earning its name. The Carolina Panthers currently use the Tampa 2 and have been one of the league's best defenses. The Bears defense of 2012 ran the Tampa 2 under Lovie Smith with great success ... they were one of the most feared defenses in the league that season. And Super Bowl champion Seattle runs a scheme based on identical principles as the Tampa 2.

Also, the Tampa 2 is most effective against the pass ... in fact it was largely designed to counter, and is very effective against, the West Coast Offense. It gets exposed by teams with very effective rushing attacks, particularly in play action, and of course by very accurate passers (who can exploit every type of defensive scheme).

LEAFMAN THE PURPLE FAN

[frosted]

It was highly successful in the 1970s. It was highly successful again from 1995-2003 when Dungy deployed it again in Tampa, thus earning its name. The Carolina Panthers currently use the Tampa 2 and have been one of the league's best defenses. The Bears defense of 2012 ran the Tampa 2 under Lovie Smith with great success ... they were one of the most feared defenses in the league that season. And Super Bowl champion Seattle runs a scheme based on identical principles as the Tampa 2.

Also, the Tampa 2 is most effective against the pass ... in fact it was largely designed to counter, and is very effective against, the West Coast Offense. It gets exposed by teams with very effective rushing attacks, particularly in play action, and of course by very accurate passers (who can exploit every type of defensive scheme).

LEAFMAN THE PURPLE FAN

Great post.