Stadium thread

[purple guy]

IF in fact, Minnesota does strive to be the home of the Vikings, they should put the proposal to a vote and see just how strongly citizens want to be a "premier" city who is home to a pro sports team. Ill put a friendly wager on how that vote would go. There is a reason they are going to avoid a vote, they KNOW it wont pass. So, while some might feel the way you do, not everyone does, maybe not even the majority, and they know it, or they would want the vote so the lawmakers see the amount of public support.

How are you so sure that you represent the majority vote?[/quote]


Im not sure. But, as I said, I would put a friendly wager on it. Why do you think they will skirt having a vote???

[thatguy]

I dont think anyone disputed the positives that come from a deal getting done. If someone doesnt see the positives, they are foolish or just arent looking. BUT, I dont see how its different because its a football team, there are scores and scores of people who dont give a rip about the Vikings or any other pro football team. All of us on this site are obviously huge fans, doesnt make all Minnesotans huge Vikings supporters. Just because someone is a fan of the team, and getting the deal done has positive effects, doesnt make spending states money on it without a vote. IF they put it to a vote and it passed, hey, Im all for it. then its what the majority wants. In this case, they are going to pass on the vote, because they know thats not the case, which is crazy. Its fair to say the majority of Vikings fans would vote "yes", but I think the majority of Minnesotans woulod vote "no".

The majority of Minnesotans have said "no" to the use of money from general funds in the state to fund the stadium effort (which I can agree with)...the vast majority of people in MN want to see some kind of deal done to keep the Vikes here, they just don't want to have to pull money away from schools or infrastructure. Creative thinking goes a long way and using things like scratch-off tickets, possible racino money, luxury taxes, etc. have all been extremely effective in other cities in the past, and they don't pull directly from public funds. It's really not as horrific as people make it seem.

[purple guy]

Wow. So why do we even vote for elected officials if we're just going to say..."oh, well this topic is controversial, so we'll send it to a public vote and avoid our responsibility as politicians to pass/reject things like this."

How about we let the politicians do the job we voted them into office for? People really are regretting Target Field aren't they?

So, our elected officials should just hand out hundreds of millions to whomever they see fit?? Controversial or not? And Im sure there are few regrets about Target Field, but if you, or anyone else thinks just because a pro sports franchise asks for hundreds of millions, the state should just cough it up every time they ask, I would call that a tad financially irresponsible.

You are certainly welcome to your opinion, and I wont eye roll you for having it. I can also have an opinion, and believe it or not thatguy, it doesnt have to mirror yours. I can respect your opinion, and I dont need to be snide or to disagree with it. I can see why some would want it, and think its fine for the state to just write them a check, Im just not in that group.

[thatguy]

So, our elected officials should just hand out hundreds of millions to whomever they see fit?

Isn't it THEIR job to decide that? That's why they were elected, correct? So why would they be looked-down upon for deciding that a referendum isn't necessary? They're just doing their job, and if you don't like the choice they make...vote them out of office next time.

It's weird, though, all of the Hennipen County commisioners were re-elected even after they voted 5-4 to levy a tax for Target Field. People must not have had THAT big of deal with it if they're going to actually re-elect these evil commisioners who are just handing out money left and right.

If the city/state/federal government was set-up in the way you are proposing, then what's the point of electing officials if all you want to do is just have the people vote on the issue? Just because YOU don't agree with it, doesn't mean we should just change the way that normal government is run just so your opinion can be the one that decides it. Let the elected officials do their work.

Oh and for the record, it's not like any sports franchise comes around every 5 years and asks for millions of dollars...it's been 30 years since the Metrodome was built...

[purple guy]

certainly agree with this. but again, right or wrong...this is the biggest difference between sport teams and other important businesses. doesn't mean that the people working in these companies are any less valuable, but i'd be willing to bet if a minnesotan were faced with the choice of losing the vikings, or 3M....what do you think would get picked to be sent packing?

that said, there is no disagreement that these companies are huge for the cities, and even the whole state of minnesota. which is why if it ever came down to it, and taxes were raised a few bucks to keep them in the state....i'd be for that too.

this isn't just a vikings thing for me. hell, i haven't lived in the state full time for twenty years. this is about people understanding that even if you are not a sports fan, or a fan of music or the arts, or a fan of anything else getting built in the great state of minnesota.....sometimes having those things benefit the whole city, and even the state.

so while i can certainly see the point of view you have that if the team wants a new stadium then the team can pay for it. but i can also see how important the team is to the entire state both personally....and financially. right now we are having a conversation between a guy from northern minnesota, and a guy from montana about the vikes on a vikes board. bars are packed for vikings games. so are restaurants, hotels, malls, etc. so i also find it a little bit selfish that all these businesses are willing to pack their establishments on gameday, but then act like the vikes don't do anything for them.

remember when the MOA was being built and many people were not happy about that either? well....say what you want about that place, or how much money it cost, but there is no doubt that people come from all over to visit there, and spend money.

i see your point, really i do. i just don't see it as being quite a black and white....

Do you think that only the bars/restaurants in cities/states that have a pro football team are busy on Sundays?? That an NFL thing, not exclusive to Minneapolis/St Paul area. I go to western SD and pheasant hunt every year, and on Sundays we go into a sports bar, Vikings arent even usually on, bar is packed, and SD is not a home state to any pro team. While it certainly boosts businesses in Minny on Sundays, they would have to board up the windows and close down on Sundays if the Vikings moved I doubt.


I dont think its that black and white either. I can completely understand why some would want the state to just give them the money, Im not among that group. Im sure in the end, they'll get the money, deserved or not, but I disagree with it.

[purple guy]

Isn't it THEIR job to decide that? That's why they were elected, correct? So why would they be looked-down upon for deciding that a referendum isn't necessary? They're just doing their job, and if you don't like the choice they make...vote them out of office next time.

It's weird, though, all of the Hennipen County commisioners were re-elected even after they voted 5-4 to levy a tax for Target Field. People must not have had THAT big of deal with it if they're going to actually re-elect these evil commisioners who are just handing out money left and right.

If the city/state/federal government was set-up in the way you are proposing, then what's the point of electing officials if all you want to do is just have the people vote on the issue? Just because YOU don't agree with it, doesn't mean we should just change the way that normal government is run just so your opinion can be the one that decides it. Let the elected officials do their work.

Oh and for the record, it's not like any sports franchise comes around every 5 years and asks for millions of dollars...it's been 30 years since the Metrodome was built...

Im done with you. I respect your opinion, you obviously feel anyone with a different opinion than yours is wrong. You cherry pick posts and hear what you want and are obviously the only one with any valid opinion, add me to your foe list please.

[thatguy]

Im done with you. I respect your opinion, you obviously feel anyone with a different opinion than yours is wrong. You cherry pick posts and hear what you want and are obviously the only one with any valid opinion, add me to your foe list please.

I don't know why you're getting mad. I'm not saying anything crazy or ignorant. I'm just responding to your posts that's all. I also don't think I've been attacking you in any way.

[thatguy]

Just an interesting take from one of my favorite coaches of all time:

http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikin ... 69044.html

[CCthebest]

If the Vikings are going to bring so much money to the state, why is there a need to tax? The state is broke, people dont want to pay more taxes. If you want to donate, go ahead.

[purple guy]

If the Vikings are going to bring so much money to the state, why is there a need to tax? The state is broke, people dont want to pay more taxes. If you want to donate, go ahead.

Because its always easier to spend someone elses money. Whats the big deal, its only a little bit from everyone, you wont even notice that little amount, bla, bla, bla. If we let taxes get raised a little bit, constantly, guess what, it adds up to a lot.

Im with you, those want to, send em some cash, those of us who dont, shouldnt have to. The belief that everyone in the Cities benefits and everyone wants the state to give them money is BS. Im a huge fan and I hope they get zero dollars of the states money. Zero. Wonder how many Vikings fans, that want the state to chip in, would also want the state to fund something else they were not passionate about to the tune of a few hundred million. Im not opposed because its the Vikings asking for money, its the principal. Its ridicolous.

[Demi]

Wonder how many Vikings fans, that want the state to chip in, would also want the state to fund something else they were not passionate about to the tune of a few hundred million. Im not opposed because its the Vikings asking for money, its the principal. Its ridicolous.

You mean like what happens all the time? Like the recent amendment that raised taxes across the state? heck, I'd feel great if they just cut off all state funds to Warroad, and to hell with anyone that would benefit from it! Because damn it, it's the principle of it!

[purple guy]

You mean like what happens all the time? Like the recent amendment that raised taxes across the state? heck, I'd feel great if they just cut off all state funds to Warroad, and to hell with anyone that would benefit from it! Because damn it, it's the principle of it!

It happens all the time, that a guy who owns his own company and would like to build a place for his company to play games in, asks the state for hundreds of millions of dollars? And what was this recent state wide tax hike funding?? A recreational facility??

[thatguy]

How much do the Vikings bring to the state? That money is GONE if they are.

I'm sure it was rhetorical...but the Vikings generate $18 million per year in revenue for the state in the Metrodome right now...it has been estimated that that number would increase to $32 million per year with a new stadium. That's the Vikings alone...

[Cliff]

If you want to keep talking about it take it to PM.

[CalVike]

Maybe in the past the public subsidies made sense. But they are a $9B business they can afford stadiums. They seek public subsidies because it has always been done that way. But $650M is a huge public outlay. It may not fly in Minnesota. The NFL is short sighted if the leave Minnesota. But they likely will leave. They are nothing if not greedy. Even good old Red "Purple Pride" McCombs slammed both players & owners yesterday for their greed and he and his lackey Lester Bagley openly played the Los Angeles card in their quest for a stadium so he was nothing if not greedy himself.