Mothman wrote:
Okay, let's talk about good decisions. Sure, I see the difference between drafting a player at #22 and at #9 but that's not the only difference to consider. The draft shouldn't simply be about drafting the highest-ranked player on your board. Ultimately, it's a team-building process so addressing what your team needs has to be a consideration so, with a limited number of picks, the choice has to be about making the best move in terms of building a team that can win and sustain winning.
I understand the points you made but not all positions on a football team are equal and they shouldn't all be given the same weight. Quarterback is the most important position on a football team, is it not? It's the position that correlates most with winning and losing. That deserves a little extra weight, especially for a team that's been trying to find their "solution" at that position for a long, long time. If a team needs a future starter at the position like the Vikings did, it has to be a significant consideration. Furthermore, if you like a QB enough to spend a first round pick and the cost of another pick (in trade) on him, that better mean you truly believe he can become a quality starter for your team for years to come. If not, why are you paying that price?
So, logically, if QB is the most important position in football, if your team needs a QB and if there's a QB on your board you believe can fill that need and ultimately excel for your team for years, why screw around and risk not getting that player when he was right there for the taking?
Don't get me wrong here. I actually preferred Bridgewater to Manziel and I'm not upset with how this worked out at all. I'm enthused about the Barr pick and I'm enthused about the Bridgewater pick. I just think it's foolish to screw around with the most important position in football like that and to pass on a player you feel has "the right stuff" with the hope that you can trade up and get him later. Sometimes someone else offers a better deal in trade. Sometimes you can't make the trade to get your guy. You can't count on trades so unless you end up overpaying in trade (another draft day sin, correct?) you can only count on one pick per round. That means the players you had ranked at #10, #22 and all the picks in-between will likely be gone before you pick again. It means the first round is your window to get the one player you wanted in that round and if you want to be assured of getting him, you have to take him when your pick comes up. The Vikings must have felt Barr was that guy but IF reports that the Vikings tried to trade up to get Manziel are true, they missed out on the QB they considered the best bet to solve their long term QB issues.
Put simply, if you believe the solution to your team's biggest problem is sitting there, why not take him? Wouldn't that be a good decision?
It's all water under the bridge now. Fortunately, the Vikes were able to pull off a trade to get Bridgewater and hopefully, that will turn out to be a great move. Hopefully, drafting Barr will too. I think they both have great potential.
Thanks for taking the time to explain your stance more in depth. Basically if it's a QB you weigh that position so heavily that you don't mind taking an inferior prospect and paying the opportunity cost, regardless of what your draft board says.
Unfortunately, QB talent just didn't match up with the talent in the rest of this draft. If there's a Luck, Manning, or even "just" a Marino and you can say without a doubt, this guy is a top QB prospect not just this year, but in MOST years then sure, you take that guy at #8. I liked Manziel and I like Bridgewater but it's pretty clear they weren't on that level, they're the best available in this draft at the QB position but that only means so much. To me getting a talented young LB was also a major need for this team and there were two very talented guys that fit the bill of top 10 picks in Mack and Barr. Sure Mosley is probably a slightly better version of Manti Te'o but certainly not worth a top 10 pick so if we wanted that LB (which we clearly did) you had to spend #8 on them. (happened to be #9 thanks to the browns!)
Mack and Barr weren't going to make it to our second round pick so if you take Manziel or Teddy #8(9) just because they are QB's and you're forcing it, then we'd have to yet again take an inferior player at LB with our #40 pick and it starts a snowball effect of reaching at every pick to get what we need. (drafting for NEED based on preconceived notions of what's important rather than focusing on getting the best football player available is how you end up with high picks over and over and a crappy team.) Because of the talent in this draft, Watkins, and Evans, and all the lineman, Mack, Clowney, etc, a really good player made it to us at #8(9) and we pounced on him but it also pushes the Bridgewater and Manziels down further as well.
Maybe they thought TB or JM could solve their QB issue, but maybe they didn't think that much higher about them when they picked Barr #9 over guys like Carr, Garappolo, Mettenburger, McCarron, Murray like they likely thought Barr was over the rest of the LB's. Once 32 came up and TB was still there, then okay it was worth a 4th rounder to move up and grab him rather than wait for #40 to see who was still there. We know they tried to get into #22, that's it. Two other names that could be possibilities at that point were Dennard and Bucannon. We also know our offer wasn't good enough to beat the browns offer so they didn't think it was THAT important to win that pick or any other pick after until they found a good deal at #32.
I think we actually got the 2 BPA with both picks and that's huge.
They asked Charley Casserly what he thought about Bortles at #3 and he roughly said "well he's not the best player at #3, or the 3rd best prospect, this is a need pick and they're hoping he'll solve their QB problems" and it's understandable if you're Jacksonville just not what I'd do and I'm glad Spielman didn't think that way either. The best TEAMS win the superbowl, not the best QB's. If all things are equal prospect wise I 100% agree take the QB, but that wasn't the case, this was a bad year to say "fix QB no matter what at #8".
I know I wasn't part of that. Guys wanted Gilbert or Manziel?? Yikes. I've never seen a team blow 2 first round picks like the Browns did. At least hit on one!!