Vikings Message Board.Com

Posted: **Mon Mar 17, 2014 10:01 pm**

Let's float another idea on the Melton front.

LDE Melton
NT Joseph
RDE Floyd
LOLB Robison
ILB Greenway
ILB Mauti (Or Mosely)
ROLB Griffen

I know Zimmer only ran the 3-4 for 1 year, and I'm not promoting this idea...just throwing it out there for discussion.

Personally I hope they stick with a 4-3 and they just want Melton to keep everyone fresh and to have potentially a devestating DL. But we will see.

I'm liking my $20 100-1 super bowl bet more and more each day!!!

Posted: **Mon Mar 17, 2014 10:12 pm**

VikingPaul73 wrote:Let's float another idea on the Melton front.

LDE Melton
NT Joseph
RDE Floyd
LOLB Robison
ILB Greenway
ILB Mauti (Or Mosely)
ROLB Griffen

I know Zimmer only ran the 3-4 for 1 year, and I'm not promoting this idea...just throwing it out there for discussion.

Personally I hope they stick with a 4-3 and they just want Melton to keep everyone fresh and to have potentially a devestating DL. But we will see.

I'm liking my $20 100-1 super bowl bet more and more each day!!!

I think there's room for a package like this, but even with Melton we're lacking too much to make a full time switch.

Whether we're 3-4 or 4-3, we'll need two more outside pass rushers (either 3-4 OLBs or 4-3 DEs) for depth. However, including Melton, we'd be left with only 4 realistic options on the DLine to fill 3 positions, and we would have 6 LBs competing for 2 spots. Where as in a 4-3 defense, we'd have 4 DTs for 2 spots and 6 LBs for 3 spots. The depth chart fills out a lot nicer this way. If we switched to a full time 3-4 and made no other free agent signings, we'd have draft at least 2 interior lineman on top of the two pass rushers we'll need.

Posted: **Mon Mar 17, 2014 10:14 pm**

Demi wrote:Spielman is a genius and 22~ other teams are just dumb.

I'm not sitting here claiming he's a genius. But when your only worthwhile DT is a declining 33 year old, why would you not make that pick?? Especially when he was a traditional 3-technique DT and top talent. Don't you find it a little odd that hardly anyone could figure out why he fell?? As for the teams that selected a DT in the 1st, they obviously had Richardson and Lotulelei higher on their draft boards. But when it all boils down, the only one that blew up was Richardson. Lotulelei didn't out-perform Floyd by much and played a hell of a lot more.

As I said before, to claim he is a bust is a joke when he is 22, going into his 2nd year, and only played ~34% of snaps. We all know you get a hard-on over bashing Spielman but I don't see how drafting Floyd was a bad move in any way.

Posted: **Mon Mar 17, 2014 10:47 pm**

Don't get me wrong. I'm not arguing he wasn't a need. All three picks were desperate needs. We had nothing else at DT. Had just renegotiated his deal. And it was clear he was gone after this year. But maybe that was why the Vikings were the team to take him after he plummeted.

Let's float another idea on the Melton front.

Speaking of which, AJ Mansour was on KFAN the other day when the Allen issue was brought up, and mentioned something interesting when it came to the style of defense. Specifically how Frazier ran more of a "rush the passer, stop the run as you go" defense, and Zimmer runs more of a "stop the run, and then rush the passer" type of defense. Which would explain Robison/Allen running that wide outside pass rush they did so often that ran them out of plays. And how personnel decisions may be different between the two. Maybe he wanted more size to put in at the end spot in a 43? Or plans to rotate more? Who knows but when he brought it up it did seem like something to think on.

Posted: **Tue Mar 18, 2014 1:39 am**

Demi wrote:Don't get me wrong. I'm not arguing he wasn't a need. All three picks were desperate needs. We had nothing else at DT. Had just renegotiated his deal. And it was clear he was gone after this year. But maybe that was why the Vikings were the team to take him after he plummeted.
Speaking of which, AJ Mansour was on KFAN the other day when the Allen issue was brought up, and mentioned something interesting when it came to the style of defense. Specifically how Frazier ran more of a "rush the passer, stop the run as you go" defense, and Zimmer runs more of a "stop the run, and then rush the passer" type of defense. Which would explain Robison/Allen running that wide outside pass rush they did so often that ran them out of plays. And how personnel decisions may be different between the two. Maybe he wanted more size to put in at the end spot in a 43? Or plans to rotate more? Who knows but when he brought it up it did seem like something to think on.

ya, in Frazier's scheme we ran a lot of 7-9 technique with our DEs, where as Zimmer has his DEs almost primarily at 6 technique.

Posted: **Tue Mar 18, 2014 3:29 am**

Pondering Her Percy wrote: A knack for reaching for players? Floyd was a top DT in the draft and we got him at 23. How in any way is that a reach? Some reasons analysts were saying Floyd fell was because "he had short arms" and there were possible "character concerns". Many couldn't figure out why he fell either. So far, neither of those "issues" has effected his game.

......"He was the most explosive defensive tackle I saw on tape all year, Mayock said."
......"Deemed "without question" this draft's No. 1 player on tape by NFL Films guru Greg Cosell, Floyd is an up-field penetrator in the mold of Warren Sapp."
......"After speaking with scouts, NFL.com's Ian Rapoport couldn't find "one reason" why DT Sharrif Floyd fell to the Vikings at No. 23."
......"He just kinda did," was Rapoport's finding. "So many like him as a player."

Saying Te'o was a better option is a joke. He was invisible in San Diego this year and probably had more character concerns than anyone in the draft. I mean your point literally makes zero sense. How can a guy that was projected to go 3rd overall, be a reach at 23?? And then you go onto say Te'o would have been a better pick when he didn't go until 38 and didn't do squat this year?? Te'o is an average LB at best and was badly exposed all season.

How was Floyd not a need?? Williams is 33 years old and clearly on the decline and we had NOTHING behind him. How often do you get a shot at a guy that was suppose to be drafted at 3 when you're picking at 23? I don't care what anyone says but Sharriff Floyd was a 1st round DT no matter what way you look at it. Watch some tape on him because clearly you haven't (whether it be college or NFL tape). Obviously you didn't watch him close enough this year either.

It drives me crazy when fans say Floyd did nothing when he was in. Kevin Williams played 66% of the Vikings defensive snaps this year and Floyd has most of the remaining at ~34%. Williams played almost double the snaps and Floyd's stats and play were nearly NO different than Williams.

Williams: 29 tackles, 3.5 sacks, 0 FF, 1 INT, 4 pass deflections, 2 stuffs (IN ~ 66% OF DEFENSIVE SNAPS)
Floyd: 19 tackles, 2.5 sacks, 1 FF, 0 INT, 2 pass deflections, 3 stuffs (IN ~ 34% OF DEFENSIVE SNAPS)

To sit there as a "fan" and say Floyd did nothing when he was in is a joke. Especially, given the fact that our joke of a coach only played him in ~ 34% of the defensive snaps. Those are solid numbers and play when playing that little. There is also no stat for the amount of times he was able to get penetration and cause disruption in the backfield. There were a handful of times that happened as well.

Everyone is blowing this Melton thing out of proportion Sharriff Floyd is THE youngest player on the team. If you're sitting there as a GM and think you can get Melton on a fairly cheap deal to pair with your 22 year old 1st rounder....wouldnt you do it?? As I said in a previous post, the BPA factor can come into play in free agency as well. Especially when a player like Melton has a much lower price tag because of his injury. I mean why go get some bum to fill a backup role when you can have Melton and Floyd in a rotation? That would give us 5 very solid defensive lineman instead of 4. Last time I checked, 5 is better than 4.

I've never heard of a player being called a "bust" after only playing ~ 34% of defensive snaps as a rookie (and actually making plays no less). Your post might be the most bizarre, "out-there" post I have ever seen on this board.

How was Floyd not a need? Probably had to do with the fact that we still K-Will on the team. When I think of first round players, I think of guys who can come in and make immediate impact, something that Floyd didn't do. Even with the limited snaps he has gotten, he has not shown that he deserves to be a starter. He probably will anyway if we don't get Melton or Kevin Williams on the roster.

You can pull up all the stats you want but when I saw this D-Line on tv, I saw a D-Line who couldn't stop a fly. I didn't see any key stops, game changing plays from Floyd. I'm not saying he is to blame for our D-Line performance last season but he has not shown any flashes of potential or any signs that he will become a franchise player on this team. Now the other two 1st rounders we have has shown plenty of potential. They started just like Floyd did, off the bench. But when they got on the field, they made plays. Floyd looks average at best. That's why Patterson and Rhodes will most likely be full time starters while Floyd may have to share half of the snaps again because he isn't ready.

Posted: **Tue Mar 18, 2014 3:48 am**

i think the real crux of the argument here is that when floyd was on the field last year he didn't exactly exude 1st round talent. i know his snaps were limited, but he didn't show me anything when he was in. and yet patterson and rhodes had limited snaps and look what the showed us. if patterson had been in from the onset he might have wound up with 13 or 14 tds (maybe more).

Posted: **Tue Mar 18, 2014 11:10 am**

Problem is, he's a 22 year old lineman and not a WR or CB. The line is where strength truly matters and where the big boys play. Floyd will only get stronger as he matures and continues to make use of an NFL weight room. He needs to learn great technique AND get stronger, where at CB or WR, strength isn't that much of an issue and it's much more about your other attributes like speed and agility, which are already at or near the maximum. They won't really get much faster or agile than they are now. That's why WR and CB's can excel early, their bodies are more ready for the tasks they have to do on the field.

I think Floyd will make a big impact this year playing next to Joseph, an actual DT.

Posted: **Tue Mar 18, 2014 12:15 pm**

I don't understand what's going in this thread. The mark of great defenses and by extension, great teams, is their D-Line. Previous Super Bowl winners: Seahawks, Ravens, Giants...One thing in common, if nothing else, is a great defensive front with lots and lots of depth. Big guys are rotational players and need spells. The fact that the Vikings are still going after a proven player in Melton means little about the development of Floyd, in my opinion. Key word: development. Where he is now to where he will be in the coming years. He can still become a very good football player and I believe Zimmer wants to help see that out, but as I had mentioned before, he's probably not at the point YET, to where he can rely on Floyd to anchor a D-Line. Because in football, a D-line ties EVERYTHING together. And if Zimmer wants to be sure and make this defense really good really soon, he needs players that do so TODAY. Having a young up-and-coming guy in Floyd waiting in wings is yet another mark of a Champion. Replacement ability. Chill out on the "Floyd's a bust." He's rarely even seen the field in reality.

Posted: **Tue Mar 18, 2014 1:36 pm**

PacificNorseWest wrote:I don't understand what's going in this thread. The mark of great defenses and by extension, great teams, is their D-Line. Previous Super Bowl winners: Seahawks, Ravens, Giants...One thing in common, if nothing else, is a great defensive front with lots and lots of depth. Big guys are rotational players and need spells. The fact that the Vikings are still going after a proven player in Melton means little about the development of Floyd, in my opinion. Key word: development. Where he is now to where he will be in the coming years. He can still become a very good football player and I believe Zimmer wants to help see that out, but as I had mentioned before, he's probably not at the point YET, to where he can rely on Floyd to anchor a D-Line. Because in football, a D-line ties EVERYTHING together. And if Zimmer wants to be sure and make this defense really good really soon, he needs players that do so TODAY. Having a young up-and-coming guy in Floyd waiting in wings is yet another mark of a Champion. Replacement ability. Chill out on the "Floyd's a bust." He's rarely even seen the field in reality.

Very well said. Defensive line depth/rotation is huge towards establishing a top notch defense. There is a place for both Melton and Floyd on the roster.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

Posted: **Tue Mar 18, 2014 3:18 pm**

PacificNorseWest wrote:I don't understand what's going in this thread. The mark of great defenses and by extension, great teams, is their D-Line. Previous Super Bowl winners: Seahawks, Ravens, Giants...One thing in common, if nothing else, is a great defensive front with lots and lots of depth. Big guys are rotational players and need spells. The fact that the Vikings are still going after a proven player in Melton means little about the development of Floyd, in my opinion. Key word: development. Where he is now to where he will be in the coming years. He can still become a very good football player and I believe Zimmer wants to help see that out, but as I had mentioned before, he's probably not at the point YET, to where he can rely on Floyd to anchor a D-Line. Because in football, a D-line ties EVERYTHING together. And if Zimmer wants to be sure and make this defense really good really soon, he needs players that do so TODAY. Having a young up-and-coming guy in Floyd waiting in wings is yet another mark of a Champion. Replacement ability. Chill out on the "Floyd's a bust." He's rarely even seen the field in reality.

Except for we drafted Floyd in the 1st round. All of those qualities you've listed sound like 2nd-4th round talent. 1st round talent should be able to come in and make immediate impact. Something that Floyd has not done. Patterson and Rhodes rarely saw the field at first but when they did see the field they made plays. What has Floyd done when he touched the fill besides become a liability?

Posted: **Tue Mar 18, 2014 3:39 pm**

King James wrote:Except for we drafted Floyd in the 1st round. All of those qualities you've listed sound like 2nd-4th round talent. 1st round talent should be able to come in and make immediate impact. Something that Floyd has not done. Patterson and Rhodes rarely saw the field at first but when they did see the field they made plays. What has Floyd done when he touched the fill besides become a liability?

In the summer, you were complaining because Floyd was one of the "best two tackles" on the team and you were angry that Frazier wasn't going to start him next to Kevin Williams. Now Floyd was a "reach" and he's a liability? Oy vey...

Posted: **Tue Mar 18, 2014 3:44 pm**

Hahaha. The Vikings visit with one potential free agent and the board goes nuts proclaiming that Sharrif Floyd sucks. Would I love Melton on this team? Hell yes. Before free agency started, I wanted the Vikings to sign Melton to play next to Floyd. I would still be very much in favor of signing Melton now. Melton is an impact player and would greatly benefit our team. Signing Melton would not be an admission by this team that Sharrif Floyd 'sucks.' It would simply mean this team is committed to have the best players possible on the roster.

Posted: **Tue Mar 18, 2014 3:50 pm**

King James wrote: Except for we drafted Floyd in the 1st round. All of those qualities you've listed sound like 2nd-4th round talent. 1st round talent should be able to come in and make immediate impact. Something that Floyd has not done. Patterson and Rhodes rarely saw the field at first but when they did see the field they made plays. What has Floyd done when he touched the fill besides become a liability?

how many 1st round players came in and made an immediate impact last season? Hell, how many top 10 players did? There is no rule that states that 1st round picks need to start and have an immediate impact in their first year. Aaron Rodgers didn't play for 3 years and he turned out pretty good. Let's stop jumping to conclusions with insufficient data

Posted: **Tue Mar 18, 2014 3:57 pm**

HardcoreVikesFan wrote:Hahaha. The Vikings visit with one potential free agent and the board goes nuts proclaiming that Sharrif Floyd sucks. Would I love Melton on this team? Hell yes. Before free agency started, I wanted the Vikings to sign Melton to play next to Floyd. I would still be very much in favor of signing Melton now. Melton is an impact player and would greatly benefit our team. Signing Melton would not be an admission by this team that Sharrif Floyd 'sucks.' It would simply mean this team is committed to have the best players possible on the roster.

exactly, it reminds me of the discussion I had with someone (can't remember who it was) about drafting Clowney earlier. He was absolutely 100% against it because we were going to sign Griffen and Robison, so Clowney was unnecessary. It seems like some fans look at a roster and once they have the starting spots filled, they just ignore the position as a need. However it all depends on the position. If you have both you're offensive tackles set, you don't need to invest high money or picks to get backups. But DL rotate, and no matter who your starters are, the backups are going to see significant time.

Signing Melton is no more an indictment of Floyd than drafting Clowney would be of Robison or Griffen. It's just an attempt to get the best players on the field at all times.

Vikings Message Board.Com

2014 Free Agent Tracker & Discussion

Re: 2014 Free Agent Tracker & Discussion

Re: 2014 Free Agent Tracker & Discussion

Re: 2014 Free Agent Tracker & Discussion

Re: 2014 Free Agent Tracker & Discussion

Re: 2014 Free Agent Tracker & Discussion

Re: 2014 Free Agent Tracker & Discussion

Re: 2014 Free Agent Tracker & Discussion

Re: 2014 Free Agent Tracker & Discussion

Re: 2014 Free Agent Tracker & Discussion

Re: 2014 Free Agent Tracker & Discussion

Re: 2014 Free Agent Tracker & Discussion

Re: 2014 Free Agent Tracker & Discussion

Re: 2014 Free Agent Tracker & Discussion

Re: 2014 Free Agent Tracker & Discussion

Re: 2014 Free Agent Tracker & Discussion