Vikings Message Board.Com

kidfozzy. wrote: ↑Sat Apr 30, 2022 3:08 pm Nice knowing ya Mattison.

I doubt it, it is either AJ Rose or Kene Nwangwu

VikingsFan84 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 30, 2022 3:12 pm

kidfozzy. wrote: ↑Sat Apr 30, 2022 3:08 pm Nice knowing ya Mattison.

I doubt it, it is either AJ Rose or Kene Nwangwu

Oh man, AJ Rose looked so good in preseason.

fiestavike wrote: ↑Sat Apr 30, 2022 3:13 pm

VikingsFan84 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 30, 2022 3:12 pm

I doubt it, it is either AJ Rose or Kene Nwangwu

Oh man, AJ Rose looked so good in preseason.

Preseason means nothing, look at Sloter

VikingsFan84 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 30, 2022 3:14 pm

fiestavike wrote: ↑Sat Apr 30, 2022 3:13 pm

Oh man, AJ Rose looked so good in preseason.

Preseason means nothing, look at Sloter

I'm not talking about production in preseason and s$$# that doesn't matter. The dude looks good. He has some skills and leverages his blocks beautifully.

psjordan wrote: ↑Sat Apr 30, 2022 12:34 pm

Maelstrom88 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 30, 2022 12:23 pm Embarrassing

I don't get embarrassing. Convoluted, sure. A bit mold-breaking by giving two division rivals their shot at premier WR's? Yup. Way too complex to have actually been (even roughly) planned out? Sure on all those.

For me it'll only be embarrassing if and when most of this draft class fails on the field. And then there will be a lot of 'splainin' to do.

And I would have loved to hear Kwesi's justification to the owners on the trades with NFCC teams and how that's a rule that's outdated/overrated/unnecessary.

Couldn't agree more. It's not embarrassing. It's very, very different. Kind of bizarre.

I wonder if the way this has played out can be explained by the fact that this is one of the least talented drafts in years. Everybody beyond the top 5 is a crapshoot, and I'm not sure any of those guys can be called sure things. There has been more disagreement on the relative draft grades of these players than I've ever seen. There have been an inordinate number of injuries that have caused first-round talents to drop. There are whispers of under-the-radar injuries to other guys like Kyle Hamilton. If ever there were a year that "wait and see" applied, it would be 2022.

And I fully admit that I don't understand Kwesi's plan. But just because I don't understand the plan doesn't mean there wasn't one. With that in mind, I've been trying to figure out what this iteration of the Vikings' brass values. Here's what I see:

• Cine, Booth, Ingram, Asamoah, Evans, Otomewo and Chandler all played in Power 5 conferences against quality competition.
• Cine and Booth are both first-round talents. Booth was actually rated as high as Gardner and Stingley on some pretty reputable scouting reports, but his struggles to stay healthy hurt his draft position. Clearly the Vikings value talent in the defensive backfield, and they feel they got a steal with Booth.
• Ingram was PFF's top-rated interior pass blocker in the SEC. We have issues with interior pass blocking. This pick makes sense.
• With the extension of Kirk Cousins and the use of a 3rd-round pick on Mond last year,, drafting a quarterback was not a priority. It should be obvious to everyone now that the Vikings see Cousins as their long-term answer at QB. I know that pisses many of you off. We all just have to deal with it because it's fact.

That's what I see so far as far as the PLAYERS the Vikings drafted. I'd be interested in other similarities you guys see.

Like most of you, I don't get all the trades. When I first saw the news of the Detroit deal, I was left scratching my head. But here's something very interesting I read this morning about the trade with Detroit. The Jimmy Johnson chart says the Vikings lost that deal, which surprises absolutely no one. But newer analytics systems from PFF, overthecap and the Harvard Trade Value Chart ALL have the Vikings as clear winners. Johnson's chart assigns points based solely on draft position. Higher position = more points. The others use some very advanced statistical analysis of how various draft positions have panned out historically. The Harvard system also purports to account for the fact that not all draft positions net the same talent year-over-year. For example, that the No. 12 pick one year isn't necessarily the same talent level as the No. 12 pick in another year. It's honestly beyond my comprehension. I read an article about the Harvard system, and I was lost by the second paragraph, but the point is that newer metrics say the Vikings won the trade.

What that tells me is that Kwesi isn't using Jimmy Johnson's chart. He's going by something else, something analytics-based. Of course, that doesn't make him right. But it does make his view of draft value different than the views that most of us have held for decades. We're all judging his performance based on our understanding of draft value, while he's using a totally different set of metrics. My wish is that Kwesi would explain his process to us fans once the draft is over, but I'm not holding my breath.

Stand by, Vikings fans. We hired an analytics guy. It's a brave new world. The only real way to know if Kwesi got it right is to let it play out on the field.

fiestavike wrote: ↑Sat Apr 30, 2022 3:05 pm Why does Kwesi keep talking about how 'he feels' and how making the pick is a 'special moment' for him in all the pressers? Guess what, we don't care. Is personalizing like that meant to be disarming and put off getting difficult questions, or it just reflexive and reflective of where we are as a culture?


And every draft call they show..."we're chasing dreams". Good grief.

Why Nailor ??? He will not make the team. Could have taken a chance on Justin Ross for that

psjordan wrote: ↑Sat Apr 30, 2022 3:10 pm I'd like Kevin Austin, WR ND with the next pick plz

Edit: Took Jalen Nailor, WR MichSt

I've heard of him.

IIsweet wrote: ↑Sat Apr 30, 2022 3:18 pm Why Nailor ??? He will not make the team. Could have taken a chance on Justin Ross for that

He could make the team if Theilen is gone or Osborn sucks

fiestavike wrote: ↑Sat Apr 30, 2022 2:40 pm

VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Sat Apr 30, 2022 2:38 pm
We disagree. I think he would start for half the teams in the NFL or better.

Oh no. Certainly not.

As I said. We disagree. I think he's great.

IIsweet wrote: ↑Sat Apr 30, 2022 3:18 pm Why Nailor ??? He will not make the team. Could have taken a chance on Justin Ross for that

What makes you think this?

VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Sat Apr 30, 2022 3:21 pm

fiestavike wrote: ↑Sat Apr 30, 2022 2:40 pm

Oh no. Certainly not.

As I said. We disagree. I think he's great.

and that's cool. Was just taking issue with the assertion that he would start for 50 percent of the teams in the NFL. I'm confident that number is substantially closer to 0 percent.

He might do better in a power scheme though.

fiestavike wrote: ↑Sat Apr 30, 2022 3:27 pm

VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Sat Apr 30, 2022 3:21 pm
As I said. We disagree. I think he's great.

and that's cool. Was just taking issue with the assertion that he would start for 50 percent of the teams in the NFL. I'm confident that number is substantially closer to 0 percent.

He might do better in a power scheme though.

I'm confident in at least 50% likely more.

J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 30, 2022 3:17 pm • Cine, Booth, Ingram, Asamoah, Evans, Otomewo and Chandler all played in Power 5 conferences against quality competition.
• Cine and Booth are both first-round talents. Booth was actually rated as high as Gardner and Stingley on some pretty reputable scouting reports, but his struggles to stay healthy hurt his draft position. Clearly the Vikings value talent in the defensive backfield, and they feel they got a steal with Booth.
• Ingram was PFF's top-rated interior pass blocker in the SEC. We have issues with interior pass blocking. This pick makes sense.
• With the extension of Kirk Cousins and the use of a 3rd-round pick on Mond last year,, drafting a quarterback was not a priority. It should be obvious to everyone now that the Vikings see Cousins as their long-term answer at QB. I know that pisses many of you off. We all just have to deal with it because it's fact.

That's what I see so far as far as the PLAYERS the Vikings drafted. I'd be interested in other similarities you guys see.

Strikes me that not only are they all FAST for their positions, almost all get kudos for "game speed". I wonder if one of the metrics is a combination of 40 times and actually timing them on film during games.

Overall I'm with the camp that does not have issues with the players landed, but we certainly took a circuitous route to get there. When you look at what we started with pick-wise and what we turned them into, we basically moved from 12 to 32 and gave up a 2023 4th in order to move up (and in some cases move up A LOT) literally every other pick.

I have no idea if that is a good or bad thing, and maybe it was a great strategy for THIS draft. As I've stated many times, the play on the field will tell the tale.

psjordan wrote: ↑Sat Apr 30, 2022 3:36 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 30, 2022 3:17 pm • Cine, Booth, Ingram, Asamoah, Evans, Otomewo and Chandler all played in Power 5 conferences against quality competition.
• Cine and Booth are both first-round talents. Booth was actually rated as high as Gardner and Stingley on some pretty reputable scouting reports, but his struggles to stay healthy hurt his draft position. Clearly the Vikings value talent in the defensive backfield, and they feel they got a steal with Booth.
• Ingram was PFF's top-rated interior pass blocker in the SEC. We have issues with interior pass blocking. This pick makes sense.
• With the extension of Kirk Cousins and the use of a 3rd-round pick on Mond last year,, drafting a quarterback was not a priority. It should be obvious to everyone now that the Vikings see Cousins as their long-term answer at QB. I know that pisses many of you off. We all just have to deal with it because it's fact.

That's what I see so far as far as the PLAYERS the Vikings drafted. I'd be interested in other similarities you guys see.

Strikes me that not only are they all FAST for their positions, almost all get kudos for "game speed". I wonder if one of the metrics is a combination of 40 times and actually timing them on film during games.

Overall I'm with the camp that does not have issues with the players landed, but we certainly took a circuitous route to get there. When you look at what we started with pick-wise and what we turned them into, we basically moved from 12 to 32 and gave up a 2023 4th in order to move up (and in some cases move up A LOT) literally every other pick.

I have no idea if that is a good or bad thing, and maybe it was a great strategy for THIS draft. As I've stated many times, the play on the field will tell the tale.

It's an interesting strategy. Maybe they had a lot of players graded similarly and wanted to get as many of them as possible. I think on paper they landed 3 or 4 starters. That's a solid looking draft. They have to coach them up and they have to stay healthy. I sure would like to have received Detroit's 1st next year. Hopefully that WR they drafted doesn't burn us for years.