Vikings Message Board.Com

knomage wrote:Didn't Cassel start out with New England?.. I am sure Belechik knows how to get into his head. That's why Norv has a real challenge this week. To keep it simple for the QB and still confuse the defense.

Cassel's head left New England a long time ago. However I don't think Cassel's head needs a Belichik to get into it, he seems to spook himself just fine. But I think if he can get us ahead early he can keep us there...I don't think we'll win a "try and keep close" Leslie Frazier kind of game. We need to score first and unleash Zimmer.

The key word here is remember. How many people actually remember when Tony Dungy was Minnesota's DC? (rhetorical question) I don't, because I wasn't even in Minnesota when he left 20 years ago.

Mridens wrote: Cassel's head left New England a long time ago. However I don't think Cassel's head needs a Belichik to get into it, he seems to spook himself just fine. But I think if he can get us ahead early he can keep us there...I don't think we'll win a "try and keep close" Leslie Frazier kind of game. We need to score first and unleash Zimmer.

Cassel has the best OC he's ever had, including in New England...and that was years ago. Belichick is definitely a great coach and amazing offensive mind (even tho his background is ST/Defense), but I know Turner is better... That said, Peterson will have a big game (150-200 yds), Patterson will rush for another 50-60 and catch more passes. Without as dangerous a pass rush as the Rams had, we'll open Cassel's arm up down field against New England after Peterson establishes himself early in the first quarter. Expect to see fast, deep strikes from Patterson, Jennings, and I'm going to put myself out on a limb...1 or 2 from Theilen ( I would like to see us get him involved a little bit in the next couple weeks). Defensively, Brady is definitely a threat...but I don't see a receiver that our new defensive backs schemes can't keep in check. I see an INT from both Smith and Munnerlyn...I'll go ahead and call Munnerlyn's a pick-6. I see at least 4 sacks from our front 4 alone and another 2-3 from backers/dbacks. That's right...6-7 sacks. I'm high on our new defense and how hard we work each week to improve and get more shifty. Final score: Min 27 - NE 13.

Mridens wrote:The key word here is remember. How many people actually remember when Tony Dungy was Minnesota's DC? (rhetorical question) I don't, because I wasn't even in Minnesota when he left 20 years ago.

I'm sure many Vikings fans here remember Dungy's time in Minnesota, and his departure, well. I know I do.

tleiviska wrote:Cassel has the best OC he's ever had, including in New England...and that was years ago. Belichick is definitely a great coach and amazing offensive mind, but I think Turner is better... That said, Peterson will have a big game (150-200 yds), Patterson will rush for another 50-60 and catch more passes. Without as dangerous a pass rush as the Rams had, we'll open Cassel's arm up down field against New England after Peterson establishes himself early in the first quarter. Expect to see fast, deep strikes from Patterson, Jennings, and I'm going to put myself out on a limb...1 or 2 from Theilen ( I would like to see us get him involved a little bit in the next couple weeks). Defensively, Brady is definitely a threat...but I don't see a receiver that our new defensive backs schemes can't keep in check. I see an INT from both Smith and Munnerlyn...I'll go ahead and call Munnerlyn's a pick-6. I see at least 4 sacks from our front 4 alone and another 2-3 from backers/dbacks. That's right...6-7 sacks. I'm high on our new defense and how hard we work each week to improve and get more shifty. Final score: Min 27 - NE 13.

I love the optimism! I'm a little more cautious. How are we going to cover Gronkowski? With Barr? Is he up for it? Hopefully New England continues to limit GronkSmash's snaps, but if Cook gave us fits last week, Gronk is going to as well, and in a big way.

Vereen is sneaky good as well and let's not forget we have some secondary injuries in Rhodes & Robinson and I'm still nervous about Floyd, who seems to have avoided a major injury but was down on the field for quite awhile. Who knows how much that injury is going to affect him.

Revis may not be the stud he used to be, but he's going to limit Cassel's ability/effectiveness when targeting Jennings, which is not a good thing. Jennings is a good chain mover and especially important on third downs (where the Vikings already struggled mightily in week 1). Patterson is going to have to step up as a receiver and I hope Rudolph is more involved between the 20s because he's going to need to be.

And let's not forget about Pats' RE Chandler Jones, who racked up 11.5 sacks as a sophomore after posting six sacks in 2012 and many think is ready to "break out" this season. Kalil won't necessarily be having it much easier. I'm not optimistic Cassel can keep from turning the ball over in this one.

The big comfort I take is that New England allowed nearly 200 yards rushing to Moreno & Miller at 5 yards/carry. If I'm Turner, I'm riding AD hard again. Re: sack totals, I think a lot of if we can manage 4-7 will be predicated on the score. Don't get me wrong, I loved our assault last week. But Zimmer's defense won't be able to pin their ears back and expect passes from a defense trying to catch up if the score is close, which I expect it to be. And keep in mind that Brady is better at handling the blitz than Hill. Limiting the Pats' offense to 13 points would be a pretty huge victory.

My enthusiasm is very tempered right now after beating what appears to be one of the worst teams in the league and one of the league's worst offenses. The Patriots present a significantly more difficult challenge.

dead_poet wrote:Vereen is sneaky good as well and let's not forget we have some secondary injuries in Rhodes & Robinson and I'm still nervous about Floyd, who seems to have avoided a major injury but was down on the field for quite awhile. Who knows how much that injury is going to affect him.

I read this morning that Floyd and Rhodes are "day to day" with their injuries but Zimmer says Robinson is fine so that's good news.

And let's not forget about Pats' RE Chandler Jones, who racked up 11.5 sacks as a sophomore after posting six sacks in 2012 and many think is ready to "break out" this season. Kalil won't necessarily be having it much easier. I'm not optimistic Cassel can keep from turning the ball over in this one.

I'm not either. If I'm not mistaken, the Pats defense came up with 3 turnovers last week and Belichick will undoubtedly try to throw something at Cassel to confuse him and disrupt his game.

The big comfort I take is that New England allowed nearly 200 yards rushing to Moreno & Miller at 5 yards/carry. If I'm Turner, I'm riding AD hard again. Re: sack totals, I think a lot of if we can manage 4-7 will be predicated on the score. Don't get me wrong, I loved our assault last week. But Zimmer's defense won't be able to pin their ears back and expect passes from a defense trying to catch up if the score is close, which I expect it to be. And keep in mind that Brady is better at handling the blitz than Hill.

... or Davis.

I think you're right about running the ball against NE and I'm thinking the Vikes might give them a heavy dose of play action too, especially if they can get Peterson going early.

I love the optimism! I'm a little more cautious. How are we going to cover Gronkowski? With Barr? Is he up for it? Hopefully New England continues to limit GronkSmash's snaps, but if Cook gave us fits last week, Gronk is going to as well, and in a big way.

Vereen is sneaky good as well and let's not forget we have some secondary injuries in Rhodes & Robinson and I'm still nervous about Floyd, who seems to have avoided a major injury but was down on the field for quite awhile. Who knows how much that injury is going to affect him.

Revis may not be the stud he used to be, but he's going to limit Cassel's ability/effectiveness when targeting Jennings, which is not a good thing. Jennings is a good chain mover and especially important on third downs (where the Vikings already struggled mightily in week 1). Patterson is going to have to step up as a receiver and I hope Rudolph is more involved between the 20s because he's going to need to be.

And let's not forget about Pats' RE Chandler Jones, who racked up 11.5 sacks as a sophomore after posting six sacks in 2012 and many think is ready to "break out" this season. Kalil won't necessarily be having it much easier. I'm not optimistic Cassel can keep from turning the ball over in this one.

The big comfort I take is that New England allowed nearly 200 yards rushing to Moreno & Miller at 5 yards/carry. If I'm Turner, I'm riding AD hard again. Re: sack totals, I think a lot of if we can manage 4-7 will be predicated on the score. Don't get me wrong, I loved our assault last week. But Zimmer's defense won't be able to pin their ears back and expect passes from a defense trying to catch up if the score is close, which I expect it to be. And keep in mind that Brady is better at handling the blitz than Hill. Limiting the Pats' offense to 13 points would be a pretty huge victory.

My enthusiasm is very tempered right now after beating what appears to be one of the worst teams in the league and one of the league's worst offenses. The Patriots present a significantly more difficult challenge.

I agree with every bit of this. But allow me to explain my optimism a bit more. I think/hope that we will be using Smith to keep Gronk in check (I don't believe there is a linebacker in the league that can hold him at bay for an entire game, much like Rudolph). Barr/Greenway should be able to effectively cover Vereen enough to not let him break a big one on a short pass. I also think that if Miami was able to get to Brady 4 times, we should be able to beat that. Holding NE to 13 is a bold statement on my part, but I just have a feeling that we will do it at home. I tend to take into account that TCF will be a very loud and hostile environment for the NE offense to operate. Especially coming off a road victory. I will be the first to admit that my prediction is a bit overly optimistic...but I'm willing to be bold at this point in time. I'm warily optimistic so far. Its hard NOT to be with this team and coaching staff, at the same time, its scary to let myself get too hopeful this early.

Mothman wrote: I'm sure many Vikings fans here remember Dungy's time in Minnesota, and his departure, well. I know I do.

I gathered that you remember him because you brought up his name.

But I'm sure most people under 35 or 40 will not remember Tony Dungy as a Minnesota Viking Coach. And most people who were over 60 when Dungy was here are probally defunct now. But there will be a small group of people between 40-60 who remember him.

But I think the underlying point was that Minnesota hasn't had very many memorable coaches lately, or at least coaches that are memorable in a good way. Hopefully Zimmer and Co will be different.

Mridens wrote:But I'm sure most people under 35 or 40 will not remember Tony Dungy as a Minnesota Viking Coach. And most people who were over 60 when Dungy was here are probally defunct now. But there will be a small group of people between 40-60 who remember him.

Vikings fans in the 40-60 are not a small group and I think you're probably wrong about most people under 35-40 not remembering him as a Vikings coach. He left the Vikes after the '95 season. I'm guessing there were more than a few Vikes fans in currently under 40 who were well aware of Dungy in his role as the team's defensive coordinator.

But I think the underlying point was that Minnesota hasn't had very many memorable coaches lately, or at least coaches that are memorable in a good way. Hopefully Zimmer and Co will be different.

We'll see... for Zimmer's sake, and for the good of the team, I hope he's very successful.

I'm 29 and I'm fully aware of the Dungy era. I followed his teams much more closely from the ages of 11 on because I knew he was a Viking.

In fact, he fascinated me. I though..."What a smart guy to have been a QB in college and know the game so well on the offensive side to be able to become one of the better defensive minds int he game." Truly impressive even if he was DB in the NFL.

Dolphins D was impressive against the Pats. The DC for the Dolphins is Kevin Coyle. He was with the Bengals from 2001-2011 as their DB coach. Zimmer had him for 4 years in Cincinnati. I assume Zimmer will be talking with Coyle this week.

I think we have an excellent chance to win this game. The Pats are hurting where it hurts the most and that is both the O and D lines. As we all know it starts up front and the Pats are in somewhat disarray in these areas. I read today that McDanials is still experimenting with personnel on the O-line. That bodes well for us in the most fundamental way. He was quoted saying that it (personnel) will very from week to week. Sounds like a disaster to me.
If we can match up well playing fundamental football, read smash mouth, with AD between the tackles, maybe Norv can keep a lot of the offense off tape.

Two more things to consider. One is Belichick himself, the other is that after disappointing outings, the Pats usually don't look bad twice in a row. BB usually pulls some kind of rabbit out of his arse and wins the following week. However, if their offensive line is truly out of synch, it will be hard to do that.

I actually hope it is raining on gameday to take something off of Brady. The last time Zims defense had a great day against the Pats, it was raining. Held them without a TD.

tleiviska wrote:
Cassel has the best OC he's ever had, including in New England...and that was years ago. Belichick is definitely a great coach and amazing offensive mind (even tho his background is ST/Defense), but I know Turner is better... That said, Peterson will have a big game (150-200 yds), Patterson will rush for another 50-60 and catch more passes. Without as dangerous a pass rush as the Rams had, we'll open Cassel's arm up down field against New England after Peterson establishes himself early in the first quarter. Expect to see fast, deep strikes from Patterson, Jennings, and I'm going to put myself out on a limb...1 or 2 from Theilen ( I would like to see us get him involved a little bit in the next couple weeks). Defensively, Brady is definitely a threat...but I don't see a receiver that our new defensive backs schemes can't keep in check. I see an INT from both Smith and Munnerlyn...I'll go ahead and call Munnerlyn's a pick-6. I see at least 4 sacks from our front 4 alone and another 2-3 from backers/dbacks. That's right...6-7 sacks. I'm high on our new defense and how hard we work each week to improve and get more shifty. Final score: Min 27 - NE 13.

If all of those things happen (especially CP getting that rushing total and Captain getting a pick-6) I will absolutely soil my pants.

Brady becoming human or tough Miami defense?

@Andrew_Krammer -- In last week's loss vs. MIA, Tom Brady was 4-for-24 on passes longer than 10 yards downfield, per @PFF. All 4 rec. in middle, 0-11 sideline

I see AP NOT having an especially good day. What do the Pats have to plan against? The numerous films of the Turner-run offense? No such thing. All they have is reams and reams on AP, so that's the only thing they can game plan for. They will try to shut down AP and force their castoff Matt Cassel to beat them. If Cassel can exploit that, then AP might break a few. But it will be because they are forced By Cassel to play honest.