Vikings Message Board.Com

I think that 7 wins is not out of the question. Obviously, our record will be contingent on our quarterback play from Cassel or Bridgewater. I want to see this team learn how to put the game away. I am sure Zimmer is not going to go conservative with the game on the line. I am very excited to see this coaching staff in action.

Raptorman wrote:For me it's not confidence, it is optimism.

Understood. I was referring specifically to comments that expressed certainty, not just optimism.

It's no big deal either way.

mondry wrote:For example, if we go 12-4 and Cassel makes the probowl, I personally do not believe we would say "well thanks for the season but we're going with Teddy now". Obviously I could be wrong, but that's what I think. Let me also state I think that scenario would be almost impossible but that's what we're talking about here. If Cassel's just his same average or below average self, then it's not much of a discussion and I'd agree with you that he's the stop gap. But personally I feel like Cassel doesn't think of himself that way, whether it matters what he thinks or not is another thing altogether.

Good points. I see what you mean.

Does anybody argue that this is the most talented team we've had in the past decade outside of 2009? That's a real question, but honestly, I think this is. And if Christian Ponder (2012) and Gus Frerotte/Tarvaris Jackson (2008) can lead teams to 10 wins, I think Matt Cassel can. Actually, we know he can, and he showed he was the best QB on the roster last year. I don't expect Super Bowl rings with him at the helm, but I expect to be relevant and to let our team learn what it's like to always have hope. Teddy is going to be the guy soon, but Cassel is a good option to hold the fort down until he's ready. Again, I think Jon Kitna is a great example of what we can hope for.

Mothman wrote: Understood. I was referring specifically to comments that expressed certainty, not just optimism.

It's no big deal either way.

Oh I just gloss over them. It's like Packer fans assuming the division is already theirs and the Vikings will be on the bottom. Neither which I think will come true.

Mothman wrote:It's no big deal either way.

This.

Mothman wrote:

Indeed, we will but please keep in mind that I'm just having a hard time grasping the high level of confidence people have been expressing in Cassel, not the possibility that he could have a good year.[/quote]



Because under the right circumstances, he can. Sans our tough schedule, I think this is the case with this new coaching staff.

DKSweets wrote:Does anybody argue that this is the most talented team we've had in the past decade outside of 2009? That's a real question, but honestly, I think this is. And if Christian Ponder (2012) and Gus Frerotte/Tarvaris Jackson (2008) can lead teams to 10 wins, I think Matt Cassel can. Actually, we know he can, and he showed he was the best QB on the roster last year. I don't expect Super Bowl rings with him at the helm, but I expect to be relevant and to let our team learn what it's like to always have hope. Teddy is going to be the guy soon, but Cassel is a good option to hold the fort down until he's ready. Again, I think Jon Kitna is a great example of what we can hope for.

I think we've added enough talent and are pointing in the right direction now. All those first round picks spielmans made are starting to reach a good age and their talent will be well on display this year. We've also plugged enough holes now with the help of free agency to be a stable team. Like I don't see us just getting beat down 31-0 type games, we should be able to stick around like we have the past 2 years and hopefully win um this time around. Everyone says they don't see a "for sure" win on the schedule but I don't really see any for sure losses either and with Adrian and a solid move the chains offense we have the tools to deal with all the potent offenses we'll see. Expecting a lot of hard grind um out type games so we'll see how it goes.

NEED MOAR FOOTBALL!

mondry wrote:Everyone says they don't see a "for sure" win on the schedule but I don't really see any for sure losses either...

Glass half full!

Funkytown wrote: Glass half full!

mondry wrote:
NEED MOAR FOOTBALL!

Yes and even more YES.

mondry wrote: I think we've added enough talent and are pointing in the right direction now. All those first round picks spielmans made are starting to reach a good age and their talent will be well on display this year. We've also plugged enough holes now with the help of free agency to be a stable team. Like I don't see us just getting beat down 31-0 type games, we should be able to stick around like we have the past 2 years and hopefully win um this time around. Everyone says they don't see a "for sure" win on the schedule but I don't really see any for sure losses either ...

I don't either, which is why their potential W/L range is so wide open in my opinion, and why I wouldn't place much money on an over/under bet. I really meant it when I said I thought they could win anywhere from 4-10 games this year. It might be the most talented roster the Vikings have had in a while but the team is in transition in more ways than one and until we seem them play some meaningful games, it's hard to get any kind of read on just how formidable they will be this season. Like you, I expect to see a lot of hard-fought games from the Vikes, as we have the last few seasons, but how many they will win is all guesswork.

Mothman wrote:It might be the most talented roster the Vikings have had in a while

Do you honestly think that, or is that "might be" the same uncertainty that leads you to predict somewhere between 4 and 10 wins? There are a lot of new faces, to be sure. I just don't see the overwhelming talent that some fans think this squad has suddenly acquired.

The biggest difference this year will come in the form of coaching, play calling, and defensive and offense philosophies. And while I don't see the miracle workers that others see in Zimmer and Turner, I _do_ think that they'll eventually prove to be heads and shoulders above the last coaching staff.

Eli wrote: Do you honestly think that, or is that "might be" the same uncertainty that leads you to predict somewhere between 4 and 10 wins? There are a lot of new faces, to be sure. I just don't see the overwhelming talent that some fans think this squad has suddenly acquired.

It's the same uncertainty that leads me to see that wide range of potential wins. The Vikings have a very young team so it's hard to determine at this point just how good they might become and how soon they might get there. It's possible that players like Griffen, Rhodes, Patterson, Floyd, Barr, Bridgewater, etc. will join the quality veterans on the roster and the somewhat more proven young talent (Smith, Rudolph, Kalil, Fusco) and lift the team to a higher level. It's also possible they won't be much better than they were before. I just don't see a clear path ahead for the team. I don't know what to expect, other than a good effort. I'm pretty confident we'll see that much from them.

To put it another way: in terms of young, athletic talent, I think this is one of the better teams the Vikes have had in recent years but in terms of experience and proven talent, they may not have the right mix yet. My guess is they'll finish with between 6-8 wins.

The biggest difference this year will come in the form of coaching, play calling, and defensive and offense philosophies. And while I don't see the miracle workers that others see in Zimmer and Turner, I _do_ think that they'll eventually prove to be heads and shoulders above the last coaching staff.

We'll see. I like them quite a bit so far. I'm hoping they'll be the best staff the Vikes have ever had. I'm tired of mediocrity (and worse).

I hate to agree with it but I cant really argue. I am not convinced we are a "Cold Weather Team" anymore after decades in the Dome, We have a iffy secondary, new untested coaches, and no certain QB at this point. BUT, it promises to be and interesting and encouraging season where we will, at the very least, grow and get better. Thats more confidence then I have felt for a long time.

Mothman wrote: It's the same uncertainty that leads me to see that wide range of potential wins. The Vikings have a very young team so it's hard to determine at this point just how good they might become and how soon they might get there. It's possible that players like Griffen, Rhodes, Patterson, Floyd, Barr, Bridgewater, etc. will join the quality veterans on the roster and the somewhat more proven young talent (Smith, Rudolph, Kalil, Fusco) and lift the team to a higher level. It's also possible they won't be much better than they were before. I just don't see a clear path ahead for the team. I don't know what to expect, other than a good effort. I'm pretty confident we'll see that much from them.

To put it another way: in terms of young, athletic talent, I think this is one of the better teams the Vikes have had in recent years but in terms of experience and proven talent, they may not have the right mix yet. My guess is they'll finish with between 6-8 wins.
We'll see. I like them quite a bit so far. I'm hoping they'll be the best staff the Vikes have ever had. I'm tired of mediocrity (and worse).

It's not that I disagree with anything you're saying, but I did have to chuckle at the 4-10 wins you said earlier, I mean that pretty much covers everything outside of absolutely horrendous and vastly over achieving so I would assume you're safe there! 6-8 wins is a much more interesting guess as far as discussion goes.

At this point it's clear I'm a lot more optimistic, I just think the team is pointed in the right direction now but I do like what you said about unproven players lifting the team up more. The Vikings went 3-1-2 in their last 6 games and a big part of that imo was the emergence of some of those unproven players. Some of them aren't the solution either, but at the time they played better than what we had been using for the first 10 games.

I expect a huge impact from Patterson, and I think Rhodes will be a top 10 CB if he stays healthy. Frazier went with Veterans and I'm not going to start that argument again but I think the flashes we saw from those two and a few others when they got to play tells me they're ready for take off this year. Everson Griffen, this guy is just too talented to be bad and has enough "tape" out there now to tell us what we can expect from him. No he's never been a full time starter but that shouldn't bother anyone, Zimmer rotates linemen so much and Griffen will get to rush from the 3 technique on passing downs still.

Anthony Barr I'll admit is a bit of a question mark, but at the minimum I see him offering up an elite pass rushing option. One thing we struggled mightily at last year was getting off the field on 3rd down. Heck even if it was 3rd and 16+ they still often enough couldn't get off the field. In those situations, Anthony Barr will be unleashed on the QB and Zimmer coaches these guys to play tight and take advantage of those situations.

The somewhat proven talent you mention really sounds like proven talent to me. We know what we're going to get out of Fusco, Rudolph, Smith, and while Kalil wasn't that great last year he's still okay at his worst. I don't see those guys regressing, in fact if they don't stay the same it's very likely they improved because they are still young and because we do have such a young team, that's why I feel like improvement is more likely to happen than regression. When it comes to Rudolph, Tight ends have always flourished under Turner. Same thing with Running backs and the scariest thing to think for opposing teams is this should be Peterson's best year as a pass catcher out of the backfield. For whatever reason, Musgrave ignored that part of Peterson's game and Childress understandably used Chester Taylor in that 3rd down role. Smith seems to love Zimmer's defense so far and he already seems like a borderline probowler, would a big year from him really surprise people?

If we stopped there, I'd get it, 6 wins sounds about right. But we're not going to stop there, you have to add ALL of that potential to Sullivan, Jennings, Wright, Simpson, Loadholt, former league MVP Adrian Peterson, Blair Walsh (or does he go in the "potential" pool still? ) Felton, Cassel, Joseph, Munnerlyn, Cox, etc.

Then, you have to take into account Frazier vs Zimmer, Turner vs Musgrave. Eli said it best a couple of posts ago, maybe they aren't miracle workers, but really, they don't have to be to be a significant improvement. I know you thought highly of Frazier and Musgrave so you probably won't agree with that so this is just where we stand now with a difference of opinion.

Even if you're predicting 6-8 wins I can respect that take, you just never know with football. I can't imagine there was a single texans fan who thought they would go 2-14 for example but they did.