QB draft preference

[Mothman]

No doubt, I have to agree, I'm just trying to introduce another perspective for the sake of discussion. Having to devote about 1/6th of your total cap space to a franchise QB introduces another interesting dimension to the question too. Given the rookie wage scale and the success a lot of young QBs have been having, I think it is conceivable that teams could begin drafting their "stop gap" qb, but neglecting to re-sign them for 20 mil a year unless they are truly elite. One wonders if Baltimore wouldn't have been better off letting someone else pay Flacco. What will happen with Russell Martin? Is he truly elite? Will he keep getting better? Would the 49ers pay Kaepernick 20 mil a season? What will happen with Andy Dalton? In my opinion the rookie wage scale and last collective bargaining agreement have introduced a lot of things which have not yet been fully realized in the NFL, but "the way things work" might well change over the next few years...especially if a team has success by bucking the trend. If you have a Brady/Manning/Rodgers/Brees...you pay that guy 20 mil and build around him as best you can, but otherwise? It might be easier to build and maintain a really strong roster by focussing resources elsewhere.

Russell Martin, eh?

Sorry, I had to give you a hard time about that one.

Anyway, that was an excellent post. You made some great points. The perpetually upward-trending price of retaining a franchise QB combined with the restrictions of the salary cap and the success some teams are having with young QBs who haven't even finished their rookie contracts could all mean changes to come. It will be very, very interesting to see what kind of contracts players like Wilson, Kaepernick and Dalton can command since they aren't elite passers. The latter two don't have the Super Bowl ring bargaining chip Wilson has either.

[dead_poet]

It is kind of funny. I feel like it's been a long time since there have been so many tier 1-2 QBs in a draft, and I've never seen a draft with such differing opinions on all of them. Bortles wasn't even in the discussion half way through the season, now people are thinking we should trade our entire draft to snag him at 2, while there's still a large contingent that wouldn't touch him in the first round. Then again, there are people who feel the same way about both Teddy and Johnny.

It is rather ridiculous. The other one that I've found fascinating to watch during the pre-draft process is Tom Savage. Early reports following the season suggested he'd be a great developmental guy, taken somewhere in the 6th to UDFA. Now I'm reading he's a potential second-rounder and could go as early as #33 overall to the Raiders.

I feel like the experts have no idea what's going on either. They don't even know whether these QBs are going to be top 5 picks or early second rounders. For this reason, I'm going to convince myself to be excited no matter who we get because I'm not going to pretend I'm more knowledgeable about these players than anyone else. Everyone's basically just going off of their gut instinct at this point.

Which is why I've longed wished for a review site to grade/review the reviewers (draft accuracy and player evaluations 3-5 years after). That way I'd have an idea of who the heck seems to have a better pulse on things/knows what the heck they're talking about.

I'm considering moving into the Demi camp and saying that I know whoever we draft will be terrible so I can say I was right if they fail, but can be happy on the off chance that they have success. Win-win.

Ha!

[Texas Vike]

If I were a professional writer of the NFL (Seifert, Pelissero, among others, you reading?), I would take this idea and run with it.

[HardcoreVikesFan]

Why?

Well to be honest, and I could be way off base here, but I don't see any franchise QB traits in Mettenberger other than size and arm strength. His mechanics aren't great, he likes to stare down targets, he doesn't lead the receiver, he trusts his arm too much, he is injury prone, and above all, he is a system QB.

I am sorry Jim, but to me (and really, I am not an NFL executive, so what does it matter) I don't see the makings of a franchise QB in Zach Mettenberger.

[Mothman]

Well to be honest, and I could be way off base here, but I don't see any franchise QB traits in Mettenberger other than size and arm strength. His mechanics aren't great, he likes to stare down targets, he doesn't lead the receiver, he trusts his arm too much, he is injury prone, and above all, he is a system QB.

I am sorry Jim, but to me (and really, I am not an NFL executive, so what does it matter) I don't see the makings of a franchise QB in Zach Mettenberger.

No need to apologize to me... you obviously feel strongly about him so I was just curious to know why. I appreciate your response to my question.

So far, I see reasons to like and doubt most of the QBs in this draft so I'm not terribly invested in any of them (other than Jordan Lynch, who I rooted for throughout his college career and who may not even end up playing QB in the NFL). Murray might be my favorite of those viewed as legitimate pro prospects but that could just be because I've really liked him when I've seen him play. I've seen very little of Mettenberger so I'm just interested in different perspectives on him, good, bad or indifferent.

I will say this: I no longer worry about whether a QB is a "system QB" since the same can be said for many QBs who are successful in the NFL. I realize a beneficial system can help pad a QB's stats but to me, if a QB can operate very effectively within a particular system, that's a positive. I feel the same way when people talk about how much talent surrounded a QB. I don't expect QBs to be successful without good talent around them so to me, that's not a drawback.

[Eli]

Which is why I've longed wished for a review site to grade/review the reviewers (draft accuracy and player evaluations 3-5 years after). That way I'd have an idea of who the heck seems to have a better pulse on things/knows what the heck they're talking about.

Then we'd need a review site to review the review sites.

Maybe some people just put too much faith in what they read.

[HardcoreVikesFan]

No need to apologize to me... you obviously feel strongly about him so I was just curious to know why. I appreciate your response to my question.

So far, I see reasons to like and doubt most of the QBs in this draft so I'm not terribly invested in any of them (other than Jordan Lynch, who I rooted for throughout his college career and who may not even end up playing QB in the NFL). Murray might be my favorite of those viewed as legitimate pro prospects but that could just be because I've really liked him when I've seen him play. I've seen very little of Mettenberger so I'm just interested in different perspectives on him, good, bad or indifferent.

I will say this: I no longer worry about whether a QB is a "system QB" since the same can be said for many QBs who are successful in the NFL. I realize a beneficial system can help pad a QB's stats but to me, if a QB can operate very effectively within a particular system, that's a positive. I feel the same way when people talk about how much talent surrounded a QB. I don't expect QBs to be successful without good talent around them so to me, that's not a drawback.

What I mean when I say system QB is that Mettenberger is a product of Les Miles' college system. Miles has always put his players in position to succeed. That is why players like Tony Jefferson, Zach Mettenberger, Matt Flynn, and Jamarcus Russell can look like great quarterbacks. Miles' offensive system has yet to produce a bonafide NFL starting QB.

Now conversely, you look at Teddy Bridgewater/Derek Carr for example, and they are running pro-style offenses. Plus, who are Bridgewater and Carr throwing to?Who is their supporting cast? How dominate is either's offensive line?

Mettenberger not only has a great running back in Jeremy Hill, he has both Jarvis Landry and Odell Beckham Jr. He plays in a great scheme that Les Miles runs. I know these points may not mean much to you Jim, and that is totally fine - I understand. However, I look at all the circumstances surrounding Zach Mettenberger and I am less impressed with him at each passing juncture.

[Loki]

What I mean when I say system QB is that Mettenberger is a product of Les Miles' college system. Miles has always put his players in position to succeed. That is why players like Tony Jefferson, Zach Mettenberger, Matt Flynn, and Jamarcus Russell can look like great quarterbacks. Miles' offensive system has yet to produce a bonafide NFL starting QB.

Now conversely, you look at Teddy Bridgewater/Derek Carr for example, and they are running pro-style offenses. Plus, who are Bridgewater and Carr throwing to?Who is their supporting cast? How dominate is either's offensive line?

Mettenberger not only has a great running back in Jeremy Hill, he has both Jarvis Landry and Odell Beckham Jr. He plays in a great scheme that Les Miles runs. I know these points may not mean much to you Jim, and that is totally fine - I understand. However, I look at all the circumstances surrounding Zach Mettenberger and I am less impressed with him at each passing juncture.

THIS ^^^^ is dead on. Another thing is he had a lot less passing attempts than all the other prospects which shows the running game carried him.

Mettenberger attempted 30+ passes in 3 games and lost 2 of those games. Manziel for comparision attempted 30+ passes in 10 games and won 6 of them (can't blame him for the bama game though.)

Further example of this is that he only had 2 games with 20+ completions, for comparision Manziel had 9 games with 20+ completions and had more 30+ completion games (3) than Mettenberger with 20+ (2).

[majorm]

My list looks like this:

Hey! That looks a lot like my list.

I just can't too excited about taking ANY of these QBs with the first pick. The Vikings need too much defensive help.

But I also can't get excited at all about taking some stiff in the third round that has little to no chance of ever seeing the field just because he's a "good value."

I'd be most happy to get a defensive stud with the first pick and then maybe trade up for a second first rounder and grab Jimmy G or stay put and get the best QB available when their second pick comes around.

[headless_norseman]

or stay put and get the best QB available when their second pick comes around.

It's generally better practice to target who you think the best QB'a are instead of whatever comes around or is left over.

[VikeMike]

It's very logical to pick the best of what is available in the first round when the whole at QB is so glaring. I totally understand it.
It also doesn't apply to Fran Tarkenton, Len Dawson, Johnny Unitas, Tom Brady, Bart Starr, Ken Anderson, Brett Favre, Russell Wilson, Drew Brees, Kurt Warner or Joe Montana. But it does apply to Roger Staubach, Terry Bradshaw, Steve McNair, Eli Manning, Joe Namath, Troy Aikman, Ben Roethlisberger or John Elway.
My point is that there's no way to tell where a successful franchise QB will come from. And, as a fan and not a scout, I'm more and more left with the feeling that as long what the Vikings do makes sense, all I can do is sit back and hope for the best.

[Webbfann]

My point is that there's no way to tell where a successful franchise QB will come from. And, as a fan and not a scout, I'm more and more left with the feeling that as long what the Vikings do makes sense, all I can do is sit back and hope for the best.

I can't believe people even invest themselves in worrying about who the Vikings will pick in the draft. All its going to lead to is the vast majority being disappointed one way or the other. They aren't going to take Manziel, if he's even available, so there goes half the party.
Whoever they do pick is only going to please less than half of those remaining. And unless the pick, whoever it is, becomes a franchise QB and leads us to Super Bowl wins most of the rest will be disappointed. I don't get the attraction of this speculation game.

I guess I just don't love football enough. I don't even dream about football or the draft.

[Purple bruise]

I can't believe people even invest themselves in worrying about who the Vikings will pick in the draft. All its going to lead to is the vast majority being disappointed one way or the other. They aren't going to take Manziel, if he's even available, so there goes half the party.
Whoever they do pick is only going to please less than half of those remaining. And unless the pick, whoever it is, becomes a franchise QB and leads us to Super Bowl wins most of the rest will be disappointed. I don't get the attraction of this speculation game.

I guess I just don't love football enough. I don't even dream about football or the draft.

But yet you have over 700 posts on this board regarding football. Hmmmm seems rather odd.

[Webbfann]

Ahem...the draft isn't football.

[Purple bruise]

Ahem...the draft isn't football.

Ahem you are right the NFL draft has NOTHING to do with football, my bad.