Future Leader?

[The Breeze]

I just bumped a thread in the College/Draft forum, which is probably where this thread belongs, called 'A nice story on Boise state Qb'. At the bottom of the first page is a list of 125 nfl qbs and their heights.

The average is 6'1.5"

[Reignman]

Read this when you get a chance:

http://msn.foxsports.com/collegefootbal ... ama-091513

This author has a very different take on Manziel's performance in that game. Do you disagree with it and if so, what parts?

I'm just curious as I saw the same and took away much of the same. Given that Bama's defense is very good, perhaps the best in college football, I thought Manziel gave them fits for the most part. Not in an orthodox, drop-back-and-scan-the-field sense, but in a classic Tarkenton catch-me-if-you-can sense.

Manziel plays well under pressure and in big games. Call me crazy, but from where I sit the Vikes could use a big dose of that behind center.

Sounds like Clay Travis has a huge man crush on Manziel lol. No seriously he sounds like a 13yo girl writing a blog about the Beiber. He's from Tennessee so perhaps he's not a big fan of Bama or Saban. Idk, I'm not a college football expert, that's for true, but what I saw on Saturday was Manziel throwing up jump ball after jump ball to Evans and Kennedy. I mean he made a couple nice throws early on that were dimes (sorry I'm listening to Dilfer on ESPN atm lol), but holy cow I never seen so many balls thrown up for grabs in a football game. In that sense, I admire his trust in his receivers and his aggressiveness, but he also threw some very crucial INT's, which were probably the difference in the game.

But to your point, Bama has one of the best defenses in college football so I stop short of saying his 460 yards were a fluke. I just think his receivers, especially Evans deserve a lot more credit. They bailed him out a lot. And yeah, not to get too graphic but I think Clay Travis got himself a little wet when he wrote this part ...

On Saturday, Johnny Manziel's "place" was frequently the end zone, where he celebrated touchdowns with fervent and reckless abandon. I don't understand how any sports fan could watch Manziel playing Saturday and not love the sheer unbridled joy with which he plays. But we're all different. Where I see irrepressible euphoria and spontaneous celebrations of adrenaline-fueled joy

I mean is he describing his dream date with Manziel or was he watching him play football? He's a bulging pecks here or a glistening sweat comment there away from this being smut lol. But he's right, I loved the unbridled whatever and spontaneous yada yada, but those are also the same things that make me think he's not going to be good in the NFL. He reminds me of Jay Cutler, just on the opposite side of the emotional spectrum.

And then this Clay all but dismisses McCarron in the same article. I didn't dig too deep, but I'd say there's a little bias behind the scenes. I haven't watched enough Manziel or McCarron games to say who is better, but on Saturday McCarron looked like he'd fair better vs NFL caliber defenses than Manziel at this point. Maybe it was the way he carried himself, or how he looked more like a prototypical pocket passer. But I don't think Manziel is NFL ready. He looks like he'd be quite the project. He will get himself killed in the NFL playing like that, or he'll throw 4 picks a game. But I agree with one thing, he's fun to watch. I loved his Eli Manning to David Tyree impersonation. If only Evans trapped it against his helmet xD.

[Eli]

The Vikings need a leader on defense as much as, probably more than, they need one on offense.

My overwhelming impression so far of the Vikings defense this year has been that Erin Henderson has been a complete and massive bust at MLB. The lack of leadership on this defense is staggering.

[dead_poet]

The Vikings need a leader on defense as much as, probably more, than they need one on offense.

My overwhelming impression so far of the Vikings defense this year has been that Erin Henderson has been a complete and massive bust at MLB. The lack of leadership on this defense is staggering.

I disagree. Allen, Williams and to some extent Smith are leaders. But I agree with Henderson. He gets stood up far too often and just doesn't make enough plays (Mitchell isn't even worth talking about). When the middle of the defensive line gets owned, it makes the LBs jobs even more difficult. Frazier knows the importance of being stout in the middle, unfortunately we don't have enough talent there to consistently win (specifically NT and MLB). We're unaccustomed to seeing teams have this much success on the ground. It's maddening. What I wouldn't give for Dontari Poe about now. Heck, even Pat Williams. Why stop there? Let's do Pat Williams at NT, Favre at QB (sorry, Jim), and Singletary at LB. #Champions

[Eli]

Allen, Williams and to some extent Smith are leaders.

I'm talking about someone who actually leads and directs the defense on the field, not cheerleaders like Allen or "locker room" leaders that writers and fans love to fawn over.

[dead_poet]

I'm talking about someone who actually leads and directs the defense on the field, not cheerleaders like Allen or "locker room" leaders that writers and fans love to fawn over.

Like Alan Williams? Or are you calling out Erin Henderson, specifically, since he's supposed to be the "field general" of the defense? Not sure what you're referencing. Who is the leader of Chicago's defense?

[mondry]

The Vikings need a leader on defense as much as, probably more than, they need one on offense.

My overwhelming impression so far of the Vikings defense this year has been that Erin Henderson has been a complete and massive bust at MLB. The lack of leadership on this defense is staggering.

Yeah, it really sucks because the D-line is strong, they do their job going 4 vs 5-6 most plays but then watching backs like forte and bush just run away from our LB's is really sad. I have a hard time believing Bishop wouldn't be an instant upgrade, mostly on the idea that he probably couldn't do worse.

[Mothman]

I disagree. Allen, Williams and to some extent Smith are leaders. But I agree with Henderson. He gets stood up far too often and just doesn't make enough plays (Mitchell isn't even worth talking about). When the middle of the defensive line gets owned, it makes the LBs jobs even more difficult. Frazier knows the importance of being stout in the middle, unfortunately we don't have enough talent there to consistently win (specifically NT and MLB). We're unaccustomed to seeing teams have this much success on the ground. It's maddening. What I wouldn't give for Dontari Poe about now. Heck, even Pat Williams. Why stop there? Let's do Pat Williams at NT, Favre at QB (sorry, Jim), and Singletary at LB. #Champions

LOL!

But if Favre was the QB you could pretty much rule out being champions. It would be more like #playoff disappointment.

[VikingLord]

The Vikings need a leader on defense as much as, probably more than, they need one on offense.

My overwhelming impression so far of the Vikings defense this year has been that Erin Henderson has been a complete and massive bust at MLB. The lack of leadership on this defense is staggering.

I think they drafted the guy you're thinking about when they called Mauti's name. Provided Mauti stays healthy, he's the guy you have in mind on defense. He'll likely be the starting MLB at this point in a year.

[Mothman]

I think they drafted the guy you're thinking about when they called Mauti's name. Provided Mauti stays healthy, he's the guy you have in mind on defense. He'll likely be the starting MLB at this point in a year.

It would be fantastic if it plays out that way and Mauti ends up being the success many think he can be because the Vikes may have more than enough other positions of need to address in the next draft.

[VikingLord]

[
But to your point, Bama has one of the best defenses in college football so I stop short of saying his 460 yards were a fluke. I just think his receivers, especially Evans deserve a lot more credit. They bailed him out a lot. And yeah, not to get too graphic but I think Clay Travis got himself a little wet when he wrote this part ...I mean is he describing his dream date with Manziel or was he watching him play football? He's a bulging pecks here or a glistening sweat comment there away from this being smut lol. But he's right, I loved the unbridled whatever and spontaneous yada yada, but those are also the same things that make me think he's not going to be good in the NFL. He reminds me of Jay Cutler, just on the opposite side of the emotional spectrum.

And then this Clay all but dismisses McCarron in the same article. I didn't dig too deep, but I'd say there's a little bias behind the scenes. I haven't watched enough Manziel or McCarron games to say who is better, but on Saturday McCarron looked like he'd fair better vs NFL caliber defenses than Manziel at this point. Maybe it was the way he carried himself, or how he looked more like a prototypical pocket passer. But I don't think Manziel is NFL ready. He looks like he'd be quite the project. He will get himself killed in the NFL playing like that, or he'll throw 4 picks a game. But I agree with one thing, he's fun to watch. I loved his Eli Manning to David Tyree impersonation. If only Evans trapped it against his helmet xD.

Fair enough.

But that 95-yarder wasn't exactly Manziel chucking it up, and while there are legit questions about McCarron's mechanics, consistency, and arm strength, I have yet to read anything similar about Manziel. In fact, most of criticism I read about Manziel are about his attitude, height, or weight. Demi threw the "noodle-armed" thing in there, but there isn't really anything behind that that I can see. I haven't read a single scouting review on Manziel that suggests arm strength is a concern.

And the fact remains, as you pointed out, Bama didn't stop him. Now maybe that was luck, maybe it was his receivers, but whatever it was, in a HUGE game filled with pressure and playing a team that wanted to put Manziel in his place on a personal level, Manziel didn't fall back. He kept his team in it and given the pressure he was under most of the game could you ask for more? He also did it mostly using his arm despite Manziel's running ability. There is a big difference between a QB who can run, and one who relies on his legs.

I just keep thinking to myself what would Ponder have looked like had he been the Aggie QB? Or what would McCarron have looked like facing that rush and that defense?

[mondry]

Or Steve Young backing up Montana, the previous poster mentioned Brady, but funny thing is that Brady backed up Bledsoe. Just like a draft it can swing either way.

I don't believe Brady was traded for.

Essentially it's worked like 5 times in the past 30 years then?

[Purple bruise]

Gemfow quoted "Or Steve Young backing up Montana, the previous poster mentioned Brady, but funny thing is that Brady backed up Bledsoe. Just like a draft it can swing either way."[/quote]

Thats's true and fair.
I happen to believe that Ponder is still the answer. Let's see what he does with 2 full seasons. I think that he showed a whole lot in the second half using his arms and legs. He made a great determined run for a first down and although he was a "runner" the defender hit him in his helmet with his helmet (no flag and no mention of one). And I really enjoyed seeing him knock Briggs on his #### while he ran for another first down. Those are the kinds of plays that endear him to his team mates (I would guess).

[jackal]

Leaders on Offense Kalil, Jennings, Peterson,

Defense Harrison Smith , Jarad Allen, Kevin Willams


Harrison Smith is the best future leader on Defense I think .. I am hoping Micheal Mauti .. get henderson of the field.

[Purple bruise]

Thats's true and fair.
I happen to believe that Ponder is still the answer. Let's see what he does with 2 full seasons. I think that he showed a whole lot in the second half using his arms and legs. He made a great determined run for a first down and although he was a "runner" the defender hit him in his helmet with his helmet (no flag and no mention of one). And I really enjoyed seeing him knock Briggs on his #### while he ran for another first down. Those are the kinds of plays that endear him to his team mates (I would guess).

I believe in trying to be fair when evaluating a player. When I look at Ponder I'm still not entirely sure to be honest. Why? Well his first two years he dealt with a season that had no training camp essentially and he had to have had the worst receiving corps in the league last year. Outside of Percy who was hurt, he had Aromashadu, Wright, an injured Simpson, Rudolph and I can't remember the rest right now. This year the reining corps is better but sometimes I wonder if the coaches put the team in the best situations on certain play calls. I'm not sure if these tight formations offer up much of an advantage to us and a young QB.

Ponder has to work on somethings like him staring down receivers and I thnk he puts too much air under his long balls but he isn't Tavaris Jackson who was just an inaccurate QB.[/quote]
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I totally agree especially the part about staring down receivers. Those are things that can/should be fixed with more experience. They talk about his skiddish feet but I believe that that is a result of a crappy pass protecting line. He is just anticipating getting crushed (which by the way is what happens mostly when he tries to step up into a pocket which is rarely there). The line was protecting better in the second half and I saw a very positive difference. Ponder is a very atheletic QB with very good ruinning skills. He has made some bone headed mistakes while running or rolling out but he has also made some good plays and has run for some big first downs and avoided numerous sacks.