4 picks for an unproven receiver?

[UKno1VIKING]

Nobody can grumble about how we did in the draft this year, even though we did give up a bunch of picks. And we now have a potentially explosive WR back in the team. Just got to hope noodle arms high floaters don't get him killed rookie year.

[DanAS]

The Montana/Young argument is tired. No one worked harder than Rice and and no one was better. Period.

After we finish the debate about whether Rice is the best receiver of all time, perhaps we can turn to the issue of whether Gretzky is the best hockey player.

Or whether Spinoza is the best philosopher.

(Sorry -- had to get in the Spinoza reference for all of the message board's old timers.)

But seriously, there's no debate about Rice's claim to supremacy, at least not at this point. It's one of the few areas in sports where the so-called "GOAT" is virtually universally acknowledged.

[Mothman]

After we finish the debate about whether Rice is the best receiver of all time, perhaps we can turn to the issue of whether Gretzky is the best hockey player.

Or whether Spinoza is the best philosopher.

(Sorry -- had to get in the Spinoza reference for all of the message board's old timers.)

Spinoza!

He was the philosopher halfback that played at Stanford, right?

[Sutsgold]

I love the trade! Here is what he does for us on day one. How do you defend him as a defense? If you give him space it fits right into his stregth which is YAC. So you tighten up on him. If press, you are most likely in a cover 2. That means 7 in the box and we have the best rb in the league now seeing one less defender. If you go man and press, you will most likely need to double Jennings leaving everyone else in single coverage. If you roll the safety away from Jennings to help in man than he is in single coverage, a win. Simpson and CP have good speed, so do you take that chance in single? Can you now press him? My rambling point is that he instantly gives us an advantage on offense simply because of his playmaking abilities at the line of scrimmage and his speed to go deep. For a long time the greatest thing Rand Moss did was to draw the safety and corner to him on every play. This gave Robert Smith 7 in the box, it gave our line one less blitzer, it gave carter and reed single coverage. Im not saying at all that he is Randy Moss, but teamed up with the best rb in the nfl, a proven wr in jennings, he puts pressure on teams to try and defend us. In CP we got someone that threatens a defense. The threat is going to open things up. The threat is worth the three picks. (how many 7th rounders will contribute this year?) Whether he catches a pass or not he instantly helps us. Good trade.

[PurpleHalo]

Tired? Maybe. Rice has 6 more years of catching balls than Randy does so far. But if you compare Rice's first 14 years to Randy's 14 years.......

Rice. 1,139 Rec 17,612 yards 15.5 yards per catch 164 TD's. 1 TD for ever 6.9 catches
Moss. 983 Rec 15,292 yards 15.6 yards per catch 156 TD's. 1 Td for every 6.3 catches.

Rice had Montana and Young for those 14 years.
Moss had Cunningham, George, Brad Johnson, Culpepper, Kerry Collin, Andrew Walter, Aaron Brooks, Brady, Farve, Vince Young, Alex Smith and Kaepernick.

Yup, QB's made no difference at all.

Rice will always be considered the best ever. But you have to wonder, if Moss had Montana and
Young throwing to him.......

Stats don't tell the whole story of a players greatness. One thing that I look at, Jan. 2001 Meadowlands, Giants smacked Randy a good one in the end zone on a TD attempt,.he mentally checked out. Rice would have burned them very soon after for a 65 yard TD.

I bet Turmoil Owens had bigger stats than did Michael Irvin, which one would you want when it mattered?

[Mothman]

I love the trade! Here is what he does for us on day one. How do you defend him as a defense? If you give him space it fits right into his stregth which is YAC. So you tighten up on him. If press, you are most likely in a cover 2. That means 7 in the box and we have the best rb in the league now seeing one less defender. If you go man and press, you will most likely need to double Jennings leaving everyone else in single coverage. If you roll the safety away from Jennings to help in man than he is in single coverage, a win. Simpson and CP have good speed, so do you take that chance in single? Can you now press him? My rambling point is that he instantly gives us an advantage on offense simply because of his playmaking abilities at the line of scrimmage and his speed to go deep. For a long time the greatest thing Rand Moss did was to draw the safety and corner to him on every play. This gave Robert Smith 7 in the box, it gave our line one less blitzer, it gave carter and reed single coverage. Im not saying at all that he is Randy Moss, but teamed up with the best rb in the nfl, a proven wr in jennings, he puts pressure on teams to try and defend us. In CP we got someone that threatens a defense. The threat is going to open things up. The threat is worth the three picks. (how many 7th rounders will contribute this year?) Whether he catches a pass or not he instantly helps us. Good trade.

... and good post. Patterson is definitely the type of player defenses will have to track and account for on every play or risk getting burned and as you pointed out that can be a huge asset for an offense. I hope he picks up the playbook quickly.

[hibbingviking]

moss was questionable too. everybody is. patterson has the tools to be more physical and a better route runner than tavon Austin. sure there were more pro ready safer picks but its all a crap shoot. patterson could possibly be a pro bowler, hall of famer one day. he is gifted.

[mondry]

... and good post. Patterson is definitely the type of player defenses will have to track and account for on every play or risk getting burned and as you pointed out that can be a huge asset for an offense. I hope he picks up the playbook quickly.

Unfortunately Patterson is just not that developed to take advantage of certain types of coverage. Expect him to be defended the same way Percy was with similar results being possibly the best case scenario for us. A fair amount of Cb's were really able to disrupt and control Patterson, often making him disappear and a non factor as a WR for large portions of games. This is where manufacturing touches for him comes in, but it's much much harder to manufacture 15-30 yard deep passes then it is a 1-5 yard throw. Like Harvin, expect very similar games here, short throws, bubble screens, reverses, and what not being the majority with the occasional 10 yard catch mixed in.

The point is, Patterson has a ton of talent, but at this stage in his development, it's pretty predictable what he's capable of doing with said talent. He is not a deep threat, it's similar to saying Aromashadou is a deep threat because he's fast, well sure, but there is way more too it than that. To me it is almost comical to compare the type of attention and adjusted coverage Randy Moss received compared to what Patterson is going to get in year 1.

[Purple bruise]

I think that both Floyd and CP will be candidates for ROY, wait and see

[King James]

Patterson was one of the highest ranked WRs in the draft. At one point he was at the top of the list. I think the top 3 ranked were Keenan Allen, Tavon Austin, and Patterson. He was worth it. I'm so excited to see what our offense will do with Jennings, Patterson, Rudolph, and Peterson all lined up. On paper this looks like a explosive offense. I hope it is..

[DanAS]

Spinoza!

He was the philosopher halfback that played at Stanford, right?

Actually, Jim, in all my years at Stanford, the star halfback was none other than Darren Nelson. Darren wasn't a philosopher, but he was a super nice guy, and a straight arrow off the field. It broke my heart when he didn't come down with that catch in the NFCG against the Redskins.

No, there's only been one Spinoza. And he's been in the ground since February 1677. But once a month from September through May, since November 2001, a number of us meet in Washington DC to honor his name and learn philosophy. That has to be one of the older Spinoza Societies around -- 11 1/2 years and going strong!

[The Breeze]

It's a compelling pick. I give Spielman and Co kudos for having the stones to pull it off. I like the mindset there.

About CP: he clearly doesn't have the type of speed that Harvin does, not sure who does, but he does possess amazing vision with the ball in his hands. I'm not sure of anyone he reminds me of at his position. He moves more like a running back than a receiver. I agree he has the ability to play from multiple positions and can be used ala Harvin...but I think his real potential is down field and red zone, which will take some time to translate. He has some learnin to do...but I can't see why he won't be effective early on as a guy who only needs a little space to make a big play.

I kinda disagree with the sentiment that he has the "take it to the house on every play" talent. He seems to have that mentality and some serious elusiveness but he lacks the explosive speed IMO. He can get big gains with little space but, from the footage I watched, he gets caught from behind or runs out of sideline more often than he gets away. Unlike AD and Harvin who are simply faster than 95% of everyone else on the field at any given time.

He does not have Moss speed either....for this guy to meet his potential he is going to have to work at it. He actually reminds me, potential-wise, of Jerry Rice with more shake n bake ability. Just his size and the way he moves and cuts back. I like the pick and think it's a real boon to have Jennings on the roster as this kid comes in.

I also think that getting the 3 guys in the 1st and a new punter is huge for salary cap reasons. If these guys can all contribute in their first year it will work out well due to the rookie contracts.

[PurpleJarl]

It's a compelling pick. I give Spielman and Co kudos for having the stones to pull it off. I like the mindset there.

About CP: he clearly doesn't have the type of speed that Harvin does, not sure who does, but he does possess amazing vision with the ball in his hands. I'm not sure of anyone he reminds me of at his position. He moves more like a running back than a receiver. I agree he has the ability to play from multiple positions and can be used ala Harvin...but I think his real potential is down field and red zone, which will take some time to translate. He has some learnin to do...but I can't see why he won't be effective early on as a guy who only needs a little space to make a big play.

I kinda disagree with the sentiment that he has the "take it to the house on every play" talent. He seems to have that mentality and some serious elusiveness but he lacks the explosive speed IMO. He can get big gains with little space but, from the footage I watched, he gets caught from behind or runs out of sideline more often than he gets away. Unlike AD and Harvin who are simply faster than 95% of everyone else on the field at any given time.

He does not have Moss speed either....for this guy to meet his potential he is going to have to work at it. He actually reminds me, potential-wise, of Jerry Rice with more shake n bake ability. Just his size and the way he moves and cuts back. I like the pick and think it's a real boon to have Jennings on the roster as this kid comes in.

I also think that getting the 3 guys in the 1st and a new punter is huge for salary cap reasons. If these guys can all contribute in their first year it will work out well due to the rookie contracts.

I agree with your assetment I think the 'take it the house' idea materializes because on many of those highlight plays he passes on a safe 5-7 yards into the waiting arms of a defender to happy feet it around looking for that lane to open up and ends up only get another 1-2 yards the vast majority of the time. IMO that type of play just isn't going to fly in the NFL, its sorta like what AP was doing a lot of early on, double, sometimes triple cutting in the back field to try and find that home run crease and ended up with a TFL or 1 yard. Once he stopped doing that in the last couple of years his efficiency, just eyeballing here, has seemed to have gone up.

[Mothman]

Actually, Jim, in all my years at Stanford, the star halfback was none other than Darren Nelson. Darren wasn't a philosopher, but he was a super nice guy, and a straight arrow off the field. It broke my heart when he didn't come down with that catch in the NFCG against the Redskins.

I forgot about that! You've mentioned before that Darrin Nelson was at Stanford while you were there.

He broke a lot of our hearts when he couldn't make that catch.

[Mothman]

It's a compelling pick. I give Spielman and Co kudos for having the stones to pull it off. I like the mindset there.

About CP: he clearly doesn't have the type of speed that Harvin does, not sure who does, but he does possess amazing vision with the ball in his hands.

If I'm not mistaken, Harvin a 4.41 in the 40 yard dash and Patterson ran a 4.42 so while 40 times are not always representative of football speed, they certainly seem comparable in that department.

I'm not sure of anyone he reminds me of at his position. He moves more like a running back than a receiver. I agree he has the ability to play from multiple positions and can be used ala Harvin...but I think his real potential is down field and red zone, which will take some time to translate. He has some learnin to do...but I can't see why he won't be effective early on as a guy who only needs a little space to make a big play.

I kinda disagree with the sentiment that he has the "take it to the house on every play" talent. He seems to have that mentality and some serious elusiveness but he lacks the explosive speed IMO. He can get big gains with little space but, from the footage I watched, he gets caught from behind or runs out of sideline more often than he gets away. Unlike AD and Harvin who are simply faster than 95% of everyone else on the field at any given time.

I have to disagree with you on that point. I think he clearly possesses explosive, "take it to the house" speed. Check out the second video at the link below and watch both the acceleration and sustained speed he shows on the play. he looks pretty fast in the first video too.

http://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/2012/c ... ighlights/

Then check out the speed he shows on this spectacular play against Georgia:

http://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/2012/c ... ighlights/

He does not have Moss speed either....for this guy to meet his potential he is going to have to work at it. He actually reminds me, potential-wise, of Jerry Rice with more shake n bake ability. Just his size and the way he moves and cuts back. I like the pick and think it's a real boon to have Jennings on the roster as this kid comes in.

I agree. Between coaching and some good veteran advice from a great route runner like Jennings, Patterson should have everything he needs to learn the pro game well. After that, it will be up to him.