House Spielman built takes shape

[PurpleKoolaid]

Not giving spielman credit for Walsh is ridiculous. Walsh wasn't exactly the consensus 3rd kicker, or even a guaranteed draft pick. His senior season was horrible and it really hurt him, it spielman saw something in him he could fix.

He drafted walsh, period. Anytime you draft a player who is all pro in his rookie season, you deserve the credit he's awarded. If not, what is he ever going to get credit for? If he drafts a hof safety in the 6th round, are you going to say he should have drafted him earlier to prove he really wanted him, or that his hand was forced because he was the best safety left on the board?

The fact that he was considered inconsistent, yet Spieman saw somethinhg in him, makes it a good draft pick. Its really hard to find fault with last years draft. I would love to have as good of draft this year.

[mansquatch]

The fact that he was considered inconsistent, yet Spieman saw somethinhg in him, makes it a good draft pick. Its really hard to find fault with last years draft. I would love to have as good of draft this year.

i want that good of a draft every year. You can get down on Spielman all you want, but consider that they added 2 Pro Bowlers out of FA and the draft this year. (Walsh/Felton) Even with the misses, that is impressive. The fact that neither were even in Pro Bowl discussion prior to being drafted/ signed is down right genius. Throw in that Kalil and Harrison Smith are on course to be there as well and how can you not be happy?

Every GM misses in the draft and FA. It is the hits that matter and Spielman hit quite a few HR in 2012.

[PurpleHalo]

Seems he's done everything BUT find a darn franchise QB. With one of those, we could dominate year in and year out.

The sad part is, this organization, can never find one. That is why this franchise hasn't been to a super bowl in 36 years. In that time, only 2 NFC teams, have failed at that, they both reside in the NFC north. For the most part these are linked. The Lions have one, and one year could catch fire, and leave the Vikings, as the only team without a Halas trophy. Note: They didn't hand those out, when the Vikings won their title games.

Now I can' t ever, find anyone who agrees, when I say the number one priority is obtaining that QB. Look at what the Skins did, they drafted RG3, and Kirk Cousins, covering their ####. We shoulda been drafting one per year, since 2005, until one panned out as a star. Anything else, is complete idiocy.

[Eli]

The sad part is, this organization, can never find one. That is why this franchise hasn't been to a super bowl in 36 years. In that time, only 2 NFC teams, have failed at that, they both reside in the NFC north. For the most part these are linked. The Lions have one, and one year could catch fire, and leave the Vikings, as the only team without a Halas trophy. Note: They didn't hand those out, when the Vikings won their title games.

Now I can' t ever, find anyone who agrees, when I say the number one priority is obtaining that QB. Look at what the Skins did, they drafted RG3, and Kirk Cousins, covering their ####. We shoulda been drafting one per year, since 2005, until one panned out as a star. Anything else, is complete idiocy.

I absolutely agree. And I certainly don't think I'm the only one.

The Lions and Vikings have both proven the value of having and depending upon the very best running back in the league. His value? Not a whole **** of a lot without a franchise QB. Running backs are replaceable commodities in today's NFL. Quarterbacks are not.

There's no question that the Vikings would have lost at least four or five more games this year without Adrian Peterson. But all that leads to is a false sense that a quarterback playing at the disturbing level of a Chirstian Ponder might actually be a viable leader. The Vikings would probably have had more success in recent years if they'd never drafted Adrian Peterson and instead placed a much higher value on finding a great quarterback.

In another 7 or 8 years we'll all be able to look back on the years that Adrian Peterson played with the Vikings, when he has NFL records for the most career rushing yards, most this, most that, looking forward to being voted into the Hall of Fame, endless reels of highlights..... and one year of being on a team that almost went to the Super Bowl.

[PurpleHalo]

We could have had both, Peterson, and a QB. Culpepper, who I was never real high om anyways, was hurt in 05. Where was the urgancy, Brad Johnson, Brooks Bolinger, Gus Ferotte, Tavarius Jackson. Probably missed some, but yeah, no excuse. Loved how you used disturbung, describing Ponders play.

[Mothman]

In another 7 or 8 years we'll all be able to look back on the years that Adrian Peterson played with the Vikings, when he has NFL records for the most career rushing yards, most this, most that, looking forward to being voted into the Hall of Fame, endless reels of highlights..... and one year of being on a team that almost went to the Super Bowl.

Now there's a happy thought...

Peterson's career isn't over and the Vikings just improved 7 games in the win column in one season. Call me crazy but that's a reason to believe Peterson could win a Super Bowl or two in his career. The team has certainly pointed themselves in the right direction. I know they have to do a lot more than what they did this season to win it all but if they can make that kind of improvement in one year, maybe they can continue improving and win it all soon.

QBs aren't a replaceable commodity in the NFL? Tell that to Jim Harbaugh, who replaced his starting QB even though the 49ers went to the NFC Championship game last year. Where do they find themselves again? In the conference championship, with a new starting QB.

Having a franchise QB doesn't get teams to the Super Bowl. Building Super Bowl-worthy teams is what gets teams to the Super Bowl and that's why the 49ers have a chance to get there even after switching QBs. Running backs are important. QBs are important. Defense is important. It all matters. QB performance is clearly a big key to success but it's not the only key, no matter what all the hype suggests.

[Just Me]

Would someone please tell Terrell Davis that running backs are just not important to Super Bowl victories. John Elway certainly didn't need him to get his SB trophies. Wait a minute....

[BGM]

This emphasis on QBs got me thinking (included the Vikings for reference)....

Total Offense
New England 1st
Atlanta 8th
San Francisco 11th
Baltimore 16th
VIKINGS 20th

Total Passing
New England 4th
Atlanta 6th
Baltimore 15th
San Francisco 23rd
VIKINGS 31st

Total Rushing
San Francisco 4th
New England 7th
Baltimore 11th
Atlanta 29th
VIKINGS 2nd

Total Defense
San Francisco 3rd
Baltimore 17th
Atlanta 24th
New England 25th
VIKINGS 17th

Passing Defense
San Francisco 4th
Baltimore 17th
Atlanta 23rd
New England 29th
VIKINGS 24th

Rushing Defense
San Francisco 4th
New England 9th
Baltimore 20th
Atlanta 21st
VIKINGS 11th

Points For
New England 1st (34.8 )
Atlanta 7th (26.2)
Baltimore 10th (24.9)
San Francisco 11th (24.8 )
VIKINGS 14th (23.7)

Points Against
San Francisco 2nd (17.1)
Atlanta 5th (18.7)
New England 9th (20.7)
Baltimore 12th (21.5)
VIKINGS 14th (21.8 )

TO DIFF
New England 1st (+25)
Atlanta 6th (+13)
San Francisco T8th (+9)
Baltimore T8th (+9)
VIKINGS T17th (-1)

IMO, having a prolific passing offense is not the be-all-end-all for success in the NFL. Having a SOLID and consistent QB who is capable of one or two outstanding games is just as effective, if you have a balanced team. Baltimore has made this its bread and butter for years. Flacco is certainly not an elite QB, yet there they are, almost every year, in the thick of things. They have found a good balance. New England has been extremely strong this season primarily because of its passing game, of course, but also because of their rejuvenated rushing game. San Francisco's passing game has been lower than average all year, but they have a spark in Kaepernick and the defense has been outstanding. The one team that has bucked the trend, Atlanta, has built a system almost entirely around the passing game. It's worked so far this season, but does it have long-term viability? Is it a game changer?

There is one elite QB and three very good QBs in the Conference Championship games. the other elite QBs are sitting at home. An elite QB is no silver bullet. But a good one is an absolute necessity. I'd even venture to say a very good one is a necessity.

And the most basic conclusion is that you need to score more than your opponents!

In any case, I hope this opens up a little discussion. I think there are some interesting ideas to be gleaned even from these basic stats.

The one thing I find encouraging is, that even with the 31st ranked passing offense, the Vikings went 10-6. Should Ponder improve as he did during the last few games of this season, the Vikings look like a team built for the long haul.

[Purple bruise]

Would someone please tell Terrell Davis that running backs are just not important to Super Bowl victories. John Elway certainly didn't need him to get his SB trophies. Wait a minute....

Thank your for doing the research and you make a very good point.

[Just Me]

Thank your for doing the research and you make a very good point.

BGM did the research above (more work than my one tongue-in-cheek post) but thanks for the acknowledgement.

[Purple bruise]

BGM did the research above (more work than my one tongue-in-cheek post) but thanks for the acknowledgement.

oops! I hit the wrong quote button

[mansquatch]

The before/after TJack analysis was been done on this board ad naseum leading up to 2009. The basic conclusion that was reached was that even if they hadn't drafted TJOKE they were not in a position to get any of the QBs that came out afterwards in subsequent draft years. Not a defense of Childress and that whole mess, just a result of how the draft position played out. The real loss here was that they let Tyler Thigpen slip through the cracks and they missed out on the Cutler deal. (even though Ponder's numbers are similar to Cutler's right now.)

You can get mad about them dropping to the 3rd pick in 2012 by beating WSH, but even if they had lost that game they would have still most likely traded down to get Kalil as they already had Ponder and at that point they had only seen 7 games from him.

The real draft disasters were the years prior to the Childress era when Mike Tice basically had Scott Studwell and a Ouija board to pick players. This was followed by the Childress "sign Veterans in FA" approach. Ultimately it all blew up in 2011. (Thank you Spielman for seeing the writing on the wall.)

[Mothman]

real draft disasters were the years prior to the Childress era when Mike Tice basically had Scott Studwell and a Ouija board to pick players.

LOL! I've never heard it put better. Well done!

[PurpleHalo]

Basically what you're saying here is that they've shoulda taken Brady Quinn instead of Peterson.

Remind you we had just traded up the year before in the 2nd to draft T-Jack who only had 2 games under his belt and no one knew for sure that he'd be awful.


Drafting/having AD is irrelevant to our QB problems. Having him has no effect on the Vikings inability to find a QB.

I can say the same thing for other great players. "We shoulda never traded for Jared Allen and instead focused on the QB position." You made it sound the Vikings should use every draft pick on
a QB every year until they get it right.

Actually they should, franchise QBs = Super Bowls, which we don't go to anymore. Do the math, it's simple really. Coach / QB, job number one to building a championship team.

[MrPurplenGold]

Actually they should, franchise QBs = Super Bowls, which we don't go to anymore. Do the math, it's simple really. Coach / QB, job number one to building a championship team.

Much easier said than done.
At some point TN thought Vince Young was a Franchise QB, the Cards thought Matt Leinart was a franchise QB, plus all of the other NUMEROUS first round QB's that turned out NOT to be franchise QB's. All the analysis in the world isn't going to make someone a franchise QB. Brady was a 6th round pick and he turned out OK. So all the draft Gurus projections on whether someone should or shouldn't be a franchise QB is a START, but there are many other determining factors and even if they grade out great in every aspect, until they PROVE themselves on the field, they AREN'T franchise QB's.