Vikings Message Board.Com

fiestavike wrote:I think the measure of how hyperbolic that sentiment is depends on one's analysis of the coaches the Vikings have had since Bud Grant.

I think it goes beyond that to seeing a body of work large enough to make some of these determinations.

I don't go back that far, but I can say with comfort I believe he's the best coach since before Dennis Green and I don't think that's a tremendous compliment. That mantle might have belonged to Mike Tice until Zimmer came along!

Time will tell. He's going to have to accomplish a lot to even match what Green did. At this point, the early stages of the Zimmer era aren't unlike the early stages of the Green era (or the Childress era, for that matter— but unlike Childress, Zimmer seems quite likable).

I think Mike Zimmer is a very good coach. I don't feel its necessary to wait until he wins a super bowl to say that. I hope that's not myth making.

I think he's a good coach too.

Hopefully someone else here will understand what I was venting about. I'm not sure how to explain it to anyone who doesn't see it and I don't want to dig myself into a hole trying to explain it.

I'm sorry I brought it up, guys. Carry on...

Yeah, it's pretty clear Zimmer has this team on a DIRECT path to superbowl appearances you don't see very often in the league. Both Harbough brothers come to mind and how their 49ers and ravens teams were always contenders for a period of like 3-4 years there. But unlike them I think Zimmer will be able to maintain it over a decade like a Belichik or Grant. The Harbough's while amazing coaches are a bit egotistical, especially Jim who kind of flamed out over silly stuff. Zimmer's not that kind of guy, I just see him continually taking this team up and up as the year's the go on.

I'm very comfortable predicting the future, it's how I make my money on draft kings / fanduel and how I make money in the stock market. You can't always take a wait and see approach or the $ passes you by. It's just natural for me to analyze this Vikings team / organization and make an overwhelmingly positive prediction for them going forward.

I understand some people need to see the last piece of the puzzle go in before they can say "hey that's a puzzle of a fishing boat!" but for me, once I see the water, I see the hull, an engine, a steering wheel, and some fishing rods I can say "I bet that's a fishing boat" half way through the completion process.

TL/DR - Zimmer is god, prepare your superbowl celebrations early folks.

But seriously, let's think about this for a second and see if anyone hears me out.

1. We went 11-5 with no passing game and a very bad O-line that couldn't open holes or get push in the run game.

2. We were a short missed FG away from advancing in the playoffs despite #1.

3. Do you think this team has reached it's ceiling, are they capped out? I would say no, we have infinite room to grow in the passing game and on offense in general. On defense were we excelled we have a ton of young guys who can be even better next year. Is it reasonable to expect the defense to be as good or better? I would say so. Is it reasonable to think with a fixed O-line, going indoors, Teddy continues to improve, we can open holes for AD that the offense would improve? I'd say without a doubt!

4. In doors in a new stadium, I think this is a boost to the team, not only for Teddy's game on offense but just emotionally that place is going to get LOUD and I can't wait to see our defense in there. If we can lock up home field advantage I'd be terrified to play the Vikings in there to advance.

5. Just to stay on topic, is it possible for Patterson to have a MONSTER year at WR and it's finally time to let him run?! Opening up a ton of room for AD and Diggs and since we improved the O-line we don't have to leave Rudolph in to block so he get's to run free and this offense becomes one of the best in the league!!!!!!!!!!

OKOK maybe #5 isn't as realistic as the other 4 but I couldn't resist!

Mothman wrote:I'm sorry I brought it up, guys. Carry on...

oh, ok then....ZIMMMMMMMERRRRRRR!!! THEE GREAAATEST EVERRRR!!!!! (I'm just teasing you Jim).

Mothman wrote: Time will tell. He's going to have to accomplish a lot to even match what Green did.

In some ways, I think this sums up a fundamental difference between how we view things.

I think the good that Zimmer has brought to this team far out weights the bad.
He has made a few mistakes but hopefully he is learning. It's his first HC-ing gig.
He has the players believing in themselves and playing as a team.

Last couple years he has had some solid drafts.

He has brought coaches in that will hopefully correct some problems on offense.

In 2 years he has turned the defense into a respectable unit.

I think we need to look at Zimmer at the 5 year mark and see what are thoughts are then.

In my opinion he is an improvement over the last 3 coaches we have had.

fiestavike wrote: In some ways, I think this sums up a fundamental difference between how we view things.

But, it is a fact.

I get that Zimmer is a major improvement from Childress and Frazier, and I understand his honeymoon period is going to be ever elongated.. but really. Zimmer still has a bit to go before he accomplishes what Denny Green accomplished, Denny Green was a very good coach.

Jordysghost wrote: But, it is a fact.

I get that Zimmer is a major improvement from Childress and Frazier, and I understand his honeymoon period is going to be ever elongated.. but really. Zimmer still has a bit to go before he accomplishes what Denny Green accomplished, Denny Green was a very good coach.

It may be a fact that Denny Green has accomplished more than Mike Zimmer, depending on what measure you use. It is not a fact that Denny Green is a better coach than Mike Zimmer.

fiestavike wrote: It may be a fact that Denny Green has accomplished more than Mike Zimmer, depending on what measure you use. It is not a fact that Denny Green is a better coach than Mike Zimmer.

But I don't think that is what Jim was saying at all, rather just that he still has a fair share of accomplishments to be had before he matches what Denny Green accomplished.

Honestly, I think Zimmer is too fresh into his tenure to definitively say he is a better coach then Green, could he be? Sure, but until his resume says as much I don't think it should be assumed.

I think it's fair to say that it's unanimous people like Zimmer at this point and want him to succeed. Whether he deserves a particular accolade or not, I'm not so much concerned as that stuff tends to iron out with time. Frankly, if the argument is "how great is this guy" then that's a pretty darn nice position to be in as we've been in the "who sucks more" debate in recent years during this time of the offseason.

Jordysghost wrote:
But I don't think that is what Jim was saying at all, rather just that he still has a fair share of accomplishments to be had before he matches what Denny Green accomplished.

Honestly, I think Zimmer is too fresh into his tenure to definitively say he is a better coach then Green, could he be? Sure, but until his resume says as much I don't think it should be assumed.

You could be right. Jim has a different view of Green than I do. I don't particularly care to compare accomplishments in the sense that I think you are using it. In my view, Green never really accomplished anything. He never built a great team or got the most out of his roster. He never established a culture of toughness or accountability. Things went bad and the team turned into a bunch of squabbling, sulking hens, which is exactly what Green himself did in his dealings with the FO. They say teams take on the personality of their coach, and I think they certainly did that under Denny. I don't consider him a great coach or even a good coach. Much like Childress he's had limited opportunities post Vikings, a stint with the Cardinals where he continued to make a fool of himself followed by stints in the UFL and he's never set foot in the NFL since. In fact, none of the Vikings coaches from that era until now have held another head coaching job in the NFL. That's because, they were pretty terrible. To me its not dramatic to say Zimmer is a better coach than that bunch based on the last two years. But that's not as much praise of Zimmer, or dependent on Zimmer's resume as it is based on the fact that I think Green and Childress were lousy coaches, and Tice and Frazier were middling at best.

I like Zimmer. He's done some things coaches are supposed to do. That's refreshing to me given our recent history of ineptitude.

fiestavike wrote: You could be right. Jim has a different view of Green than I do. I don't particularly care to compare accomplishments in the sense that I think you are using it. In my view, Green never really accomplished anything. He never built a great team or got the most out of his roster. He never established a culture of toughness or accountability. Things went bad and the team turned into a bunch of squabbling, sulking hens, which is exactly what Green himself did in his dealings with the FO. They say teams take on the personality of their coach, and I think they certainly did that under Denny. I don't consider him a great coach or even a good coach. Much like Childress he's had limited opportunities post Vikings, a stint with the Cardinals where he continued to make a fool of himself followed by stints in the UFL and he's never set foot in the NFL since. In fact, none of the Vikings coaches from that era until now have held another head coaching job in the NFL. That's because, they were pretty terrible. To me its not dramatic to say Zimmer is a better coach than that bunch based on the last two years. But that's not as much praise of Zimmer, or dependent on Zimmer's resume as it is based on the fact that I think Green and Childress were lousy coaches, and Tice and Frazier were middling at best.

I like Zimmer. He's done some things coaches are supposed to do. That's refreshing to me given our recent history of ineptitude.

Didn't build a great team or ever do anything? Say what?

Dude went 15-1 and was one play away from the SuperBowl, with what was at the time maybe the greatest Offenses in history, there is still an argument to be had in their favor in fact.

I don't really see any way to insinuate Green never accomplished anything, but agree to disagree.

Jordysghost wrote:But I don't think that is what Jim was saying at all, rather just that he still has a fair share of accomplishments to be had before he matches what Denny Green accomplished.

You're correct.

Honestly, I think Zimmer is too fresh into his tenure to definitively say he is a better coach then Green, could he be? Sure, but until his resume says as much I don't think it should be assumed.

I agree.

The point I was making earlier today has subsequently been illustrated better than I could ever have hoped to explain it myself.

Jordysghost wrote:Didn't build a great team or ever do anything? Say what?

Dude went 15-1 and was one play away from the SuperBowl, with what was at the time maybe the greatest Offenses in history, there is still an argument to be had in their favor in fact.

You call that an accomplishment? Heck, any lousy old coach can do that.

Mothman wrote: You call that an accomplishment? Heck, any lousy old coach can do that.

at least one lousy coach did it.