Vikings @ Lions Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 15

[chicagopurple]

The Vikes pretty clearly have shown that they are good enough to beat SOME of the bad teams and not good enough to beat ANY of the Good teams. Teddy is young (he could be the poster boy for young raw talent). It is really REALLY critical that he is provided a great QB coach to foster his growth. I do not believe the team has invested in that coach yet. I don't know who is out there to fill that roll, but getting that guy may be more important than any player we draft.

Oh, and Hey!.....Kallil didnt suck too bad this week......who would have thought?

[DK Sweets]

Oh, and Hey!.....Kallil didnt suck too bad this week......who would have thought?

I was going to bring this up too. I typically don't watch O-Line play, but I did try to keep an eye out for him to see how he was holding up if it seemed like Teddy was looking for a deep pass. He always looked solid to me, and I didn't notice any egregious mistakes. It would be really fantastic if he could shape up to at least be a top 15 LT. It's not what we were expecting, but it would at least still answer a hole on the roster.

[J. Kapp 11]

The Vikes pretty clearly have shown that they are good enough to beat SOME of the bad teams and not good enough to beat ANY of the Good teams. Teddy is young (he could be the poster boy for young raw talent). It is really REALLY critical that he is provided a great QB coach to foster his growth. I do not believe the team has invested in that coach yet. I don't know who is out there to fill that roll, but getting that guy may be more important than any player we draft.

Oh, and Hey!.....Kallil didnt suck too bad this week......who would have thought?

Actually, I thought the Vikings outplayed the Lions yesterday. They didn't win, but they were good enough to beat them. I mean, a year ago, who would have thought Blair Walsh's poor kicking would cost us?

They're good enough to beat good teams. Now they have to go out and do it.

I do agree with you on the coach for Teddy. I still like Norv, but I always cringe when big-name coaches hire their sons. Is Scott Turner really qualified to mentor Teddy Bridgewater? I mean, the dude just got his first NFL job three years ago, and it wasn't even as a coach (quality control coordinator). I don't know. On the other hand, Teddy has shown a lot of improvement. How much of that is attributable to Norv and not Scott? I suspect we'll never know cuz Scott's job is safe as long as Norv is OC.

[Mothman]

I'm not saying it's unfair or even unwise to look at every aspect of the performance, but that's kinda my point. When looking at his game, you have to keep in mind how other players have fared against Detroit.

Only Cam Newton, Drew Brees, Matt Ryan, Carson Palmer, and and Tom Brady had better a QBR than Teddy. Ryan Tannehill is the only QB complete a higher percentage of passes. Brady and Brees were the only ones to throw for more yards.

14 games into the season, and Teddy had at worst the 6th best performance against that defense. He completely outplayed Eli Manning, Jay Cutler, Josh McCown, Kyle Orton, Geno Smith, and Aaron Rodgers.

Of course he had some rough stretches, but it just doesn't seem like the general tone of the board is looking at how he did things well, it seems like people are focusing on the missed plays. If it isn't for a blocked kick, Teddy would have been one of 5 QBs to lead his team to a victory, and he's a rookie playing with an offense that MacGuyver couldn't fix.

I agree he didn't dominate the game and made some mistakes, I just don't understand why we aren't a little bit happier with the progress he's made and instead are wringing our hands at what he hasn't become yet.

It's possible I'm misunderstanding the tone of the board, and my comments are no way directed as a criticism towards you, Jim. I'm mostly piggybacking off of my suggestion from last week that some people seem to be less optimistic about Bridgewater, and it's not really about his performance...it's based on our fear of being let down again.

Good post and I understand what you're saying but I think everybody is reacting in their own way. As a board, we are rarely very single-minded about anything. I'm not really seeing a singular general tone here when it comes to Bridgewater or his performance yesterday. I think some people fear being let down again, some are clearly very eager to believe that isn't going to happen and many are somewhere in-between. I'm seeing at least as many posts about how good his performance was and how excited people are about his development as I'm seeing that are critical of his performance. As far as I'm concerned, there's room for it all.

Personally, I am happy with the progress he's made and I'm not wringing my hands over what he hasn't become yet, I'm just trying to discuss what he is right now as a quarterback and I think that's true for many others who have been critical of aspects of his performance yesterday.

I will say this: missed opportunities and turnovers are always going to stand out and be discussed after a close loss. That's inevitable. I think we were all impressed with the way Bridgewater was playing through the first 1.5 quarters yesterday and the broadcasters clearly were too. He looked outstanding for a while but then he made back-to-back mistakes that literally changed the entire complexion of the game. No matter how well he played, that should be a part of the discussion. That first pick was literally the turning point in the game. The Vikes were dominating and leading 14-0 prior to that. They never scored again and gave up 16 points after it. It was arguably the biggest play of the game. How can we not talk about it?

[Mothman]

post DK!! I feel the same way. What I don't understand is that Teddy has been a pretty promising player and something to really look forward to yet there are a few on here that don't really give him a whole lot of credit for anything. There seems to be a lot of nitpicking at what he does bad and the good he does goes in one ear and out the other. There is nothing wrong with critiquing a player by any means but I just sense a lot of negativity and nitpicking towards him more than anything. I mean our crowd is chanting his name 3-4 times a game!!! I couldn't tell you the last time that ever happened for a Vikings QB. Nobody is dismissing his mistakes, however he is a rookie. I feel like some need to embrace more of the gains he is making and the promise he is showing rather than overlooking it and nitpicking. I'm not directing this towards anyone specific but I have gotten the same feeling DK has about this boards view on Teddy

For every post that is "nitpicking" Teddy there is at least one, if not more, like what you just posted above. People are embracing the good in their own way, as they're ready.

Frankly, I think characterizing criticism of his INTs yesterday as nitpicking is a serious understatement. As I just posted in response to DKSweets, the game arguably turned on that first pick. It was certainly one of the game's most significant moments, if not the major turning point. When a mistake like that is almost immediately followed by another, even more egregious mistake and when those errors set the Lions up to reduce a 14-0 lead to 14-10, discussing them seems more than just nitpicking. They were very significant plays. It's not as if Teddy went 31-41 for 300+ yards (or whatever his final stats were... I think that's close) and no INTs and we're seeing a bunch of criticism of his footwork. The mistakes were big, game-altering mistakes.

[720pete]

Did anyone see the last Vikings offensive play in the 3rd quarter? Bridgwater decided to run for a 1st down and ended up sliding. A Lions defender then launched himself at Bridgwater helmet first and knicked Bridgwater on his helmet. There was no flag, but Iv'e seen this called for QBs like Rodgers. Anyone else notice this?

[Pondering Her Percy]

For every post that is "nitpicking" Teddy there is at least one, if not more, like what you just posted above. People are embracing the good in their own way, as they're ready.

Frankly, I think characterizing criticism of his INTs yesterday as nitpicking is a serious understatement. As I just posted in response to DKSweets, the game arguably turned on that first pick. It was certainly one of the game's most significant moments, if not the major turning point. When a mistake like that is almost immediately followed by another, even more egregious mistake and when those errors set the Lions up to reduce a 14-0 lead to 14-10, discussing them seems more than just nitpicking. They were very significant plays. It's not as if Teddy went 31-41 for 300+ yards (or whatever his final stats were... I think that's close) and no INTs and we're seeing a bunch of criticism of his footwork. The mistakes were big, game-altering mistakes.

I understand that. I never said they weren't big mistakes. However it's not just this game. Even last game, as good as Teddy played there was still a lot of nitpicking. It's an every game occurrence. By no means am I saying the kid does nothing wrong but IMO, there seems to be more nitpicking win or lose rather than the positives. I mean after all, he is a rookie and is going to make his mistakes. Like I said, he's been the most promising young QB we've had in a long time but it still seems like there are some that aren't big fans which really baffles me

[PacificNorseWest]

I think the level of nitpicking or the perceived nitpicking is only going to grow right along with Teddy's development. Fans have elevated expectations because Teddy has given us reason to expect great quarterback play for the future.

[DK Sweets]

Did anyone see the last Vikings offensive play in the 3rd quarter? Bridgwater decided to run for a 1st down and ended up sliding. A Lions defender then launched himself at Bridgwater helmet first and knicked Bridgwater on his helmet. There was no flag, but Iv'e seen this called for QBs like Rodgers. Anyone else notice this?

I noticed it and agree that it's been called for the bigger named QBs, but I don't like when refs make those calls. I wish there was more consistency, but it was the right call.

[Mothman]

Did anyone see the last Vikings offensive play in the 3rd quarter? Bridgwater decided to run for a 1st down and ended up sliding. A Lions defender then launched himself at Bridgwater helmet first and knicked Bridgwater on his helmet. There was no flag, but Iv'e seen this called for QBs like Rodgers. Anyone else notice this?

I remember the play and the launch. I didn't see the knick. I'll have to look for it if I get a chance to watch the play again.

[PacificNorseWest]

I noticed it and agree that it's been called for the bigger named QBs, but I don't like when refs make those calls. I wish there was more consistency, but it was the right call.

It definitely seems like it's a subjective call based upon the individual ref. I also didn't see the kick, but I thought it was a good no-call. Or, at least, how I wish they would officiate that particular play. It looked like the defender had already committed towards Teddy just before his slide.

[Mothman]

I understand that. I never said they weren't big mistakes. However it's not just this game. Even last game, as good as Teddy played there was still a lot of nitpicking. It's an every game occurrence. By no means am I saying the kid does nothing wrong but IMO, there seems to be more nitpicking win or lose rather than the positives. I mean after all, he is a rookie and is going to make his mistakes. Like I said, he's been the most promising young QB we've had in a long time but it still seems like there are some that aren't big fans which really baffles me

I think it's a matter of perspective and to some extent, as DKSweets observed, people don't want to be let down again. I'm certainly in that category. I'm cautiously optimistic but I've seen too much I don't like in Teddy's game to be "all in" on him. I support him and I'm rooting for him but I need to see a lot more before I'm convinced he's a the long term answer at QB.

I think most of what's being called nitpicking is just people trying to look closely at his game and is a different reflection of the hope they have for him. In other words, in some cases, people want to overlook the mistakes and just focus on the positives. In others, people are focusing on the mistakes, taking note of them as the things Bridgewater will need to reduce/eliminate/improve upon if he's going to become the QB we all hope he will become. I think we're seeing two sides of the same coin.

There's also the natural push and pull between optimism, pessimism and, for lack of a better word, realism. As Kapp pointed out, prior to Teddy's first pick yesterday, the game thread was getting some "we've got our franchise quarterback" comments. Optimism reigned. A bad game (like the one against the Bears) or possibly even a few bad mistakes (like we saw yesterday), naturally tends to bring out the more pessimistic side of some fans, or at least the more realistic side that says, 'well, we want him to be 'the answer' but we're just going to have to wait and see".

Does that make sense?

Personally, I'm just trying to step back, appreciate the good, analyze the bad and see what happens. Like Rick Spielman, I think it often takes a few years for a team to really find out what they have in a QB.

[Pondering Her Percy]

I think it's a matter of perspective and to some extent, as DKSweets observed, people don't want to be let down again. I'm certainly in that category. I'm cautiously optimistic but I've seen too much I don't like in Teddy's game to be "all in" on him. I support him and I'm rooting for him but I need to see a lot more before I'm convinced he's a the long term answer at QB.

I think most of what's being called nitpicking is just people trying to look closely at his game and is a different reflection of the hope they have for him. In other words, in some cases, people want to overlook the mistakes and just focus on the positives. In others, people are focusing on the mistakes, taking note of them as the things Bridgewater will need to reduce/eliminate/improve upon if he's going to become the QB we all hope he will become. I think we're seeing two sides of the same coin.

There's also the natural push and pull between optimism, pessimism and, for lack of a better word, realism. As Kapp pointed out, prior to Teddy's first pick yesterday, the game thread was getting some "we've got our franchise quarterback" comments. Optimism reigned. A bad game (like the one against the Bears) or possibly even a few bad mistakes (like we saw yesterday), naturally tends to bring out the more pessimistic side of some fans, or at least the more realistic side that says, 'well, we want him to be 'the answer' but we're just going to have to wait and see".

Does that make sense?

Personally, I'm just trying to step back, appreciate the good, analyze the bad and see what happens. Like Rick Spielman, I think it often takes a few years for a team to really find out what they have in a QB.

Yes but I'm curious, you say there is "too much of Teddy's game" that you don't like. Interested to know what that is. For me there have been 1-2 things but nothing to the point where I am scratching my head wondering if he is the answer. Trust me, I don't want to be let down anymore either but I sure do know that I haven't been more pleased and excited for a vikings QB in quite some time. Every QB has their ups and downs, especially as a rookie, but I see a lot of promise with Teddy

[Purple Reign]

It definitely seems like it's a subjective call based upon the individual ref. I also didn't see the kick, but I thought it was a good no-call. Or, at least, how I wish they would officiate that particular play. It looked like the defender had already committed towards Teddy just before his slide.

I think it was a good no call (and the op said the defender 'knicked' him, not kick him). Teddy definitely slid late and the defender had already committed and I thought the defender did a good job of avoiding a major hit even though he did launch himself. Now if he had hit Teddy hard, then I could see them throwing the flag, but that wasn't the case.

[Purple Reign]

I was going to bring this up too. I typically don't watch O-Line play, but I did try to keep an eye out for him to see how he was holding up if it seemed like Teddy was looking for a deep pass. He always looked solid to me, and I didn't notice any egregious mistakes. It would be really fantastic if he could shape up to at least be a top 15 LT. It's not what we were expecting, but it would at least still answer a hole on the roster.

So what do you expect when you draft someone with the 4th pick of the draft? I sure expect him to be in the top 15, especially after he made the Pro Bowl his first year.