Zimmer pleased with Patterson's offseason work, 'mentality'

[Mothman]

I agree with that.
I agree with this as well.
That's possible, and if they think he is trending in that direction and showing enough improvement then I suspect they won't move him. What I contend is that Jarius Wright has developed into a real contributor, they got nice surprises in Johnson and Thielen and possibly in Diggs, and they added an established player in Mike Wallace. The circumstances have changed a lot since they drafted Patterson. I think there are two things we disagree about. 1. is our level of optimism that Patterson will fulfill his potential. I don't contend its impossible or that he isn't getting better, our disagreement is just a matter of degrees on this point. 2. is that you think Patterson, the player he is today, is of more value than some of the other top 5 receivers on the roster, while I do not. He's certainly more athletic and explosive than almost anyone, but to me Thielen is clearly a better all around WR.

Yes if Patterson is going to pan out it will take patience. I'm not sure the Vikings need to be patient, because I think they've collected a very strong group of WRs. Obviously I would keep him above guys who were our 4th, 5th, maybe even 2nd and 3rd WRs for the Vikings in years passed. Today, not so much.

Also, if you were to assume that he is the #6 wr, its worth comparing him to other players who are on the bubble at their position group in order to make a decision on how to proceed. That might make a clear case for keeping him, or it might not.

I think we understand each other so not trying to argue, I just wanted to clarify my position and point out that we agree about a few things regarding Patterson.

Thanks. I appreciate the clarification and we obviously do agree on a few points about Patterson. I also think you've correctly identified and explained the areas in which we disagree. It will be interesting to see how his story plays out this season.

[fiestavike]

Obviously Sherels?? I think it's "obvious" you just don't like Patterson. Patterson was the best KR in the league his rookie season and was 6th in yardage last year. He's a HUGE playmaker in open space.

Sherels was ranked 8th and 6th in the last 2 years and isn't remotely close the athlete/playmaker Patterson is. I would much rather have Patterson returning anything way before Sherels.

All in all, the two aren't even competing. It's Diggs and Sherels and by what Diggs has shown in the preseason, he definitely has the upper hand. So if anything, it's "obvious" Sherels could be in trouble

I absolutely do not hate Patterson. I honestly just like Wallace, Johnson, Wright and Thielen better, and frankly I see more upside as a WR for Diggs.

I also think Sherels is not given anywhere near enough credit for his contributions on nearly ALL PHASES of special teams. To say that he is competing with Diggs is to completely misunderstand the contributions that Marcus Sherels makes on special teams BEYOND returning punts. Just watch the last preseason game, he made great plays on punt and kickoff coverage. He will also likely be called upon to play CB during stretches of the first two regular season games while Price is suspended. Baring injury, Diggs won't even be active on gamedays.

I think Patterson is getting better as a WR, but I also think he had some of his courage smacked out of him on kick returns. The NFL tends to do that to most guys. I'd like to be able to keep everyone but there will obviously be hard choices this year, and I think if Patterson weren't a 1st round pick he would be on the bubble. Basically, I just hope that this organization doesn't think that's a good enough reason to keep a guy around. If they really see improvement and feel he is trending up, by all means they should keep him. But it would send a hell of a message to the locker room that talent isn't enough to be part of this team, should they decide to part way with him.

[dead_poet]

I'd like to be able to keep everyone but there will obviously be hard choices this year, and I think if Patterson weren't a 1st round pick he would be on the bubble. Basically, I just hope that this organization doesn't think that's a good enough reason to keep a guy around. If they really see improvement and feel he is trending up, by all means they should keep him. But it would send a hell of a message to the locker room that talent isn't enough to be part of this team, should they decide to part way with him.

I wouldn't be opposed to getting Carolina's first-rounder in 2016 for him.

[fiestavike]

I wouldn't be opposed to getting Carolina's first-rounder in 2016 for him.

I could see him being a really productive player for a team like Pittsburg or Carolina where they have big QBs who buy time and scramble around. I think in a timing offense his liabilities are magnified.

[Funkytown]

All in all, the two aren't even competing. It's Diggs and Sherels and by what Diggs has shown in the preseason, he definitely has the upper hand. So if anything, it's "obvious" Sherels could be in trouble

Not so fast.

Priefer gives his continued endorsement for Sherels as punt returner by Andrew Krammer

"Stefon had the benefit of some really great blocking and he's done a great job of hitting the seams," Priefer said Wednesday. "Marcus has had two pretty explosive returns himself without the benefit of as much blocking. It's a great battle so far."

Above all else, the Vikings value ball security on punt returns, which differ from kickoff returns as the opposing coverage team is closer and forces the decision of a fair catch or not while keeping focus on the ball.

In his four NFL seasons as the Vikings' punt returner, Sherels has muffed four returns in more than 200 attempts -- losing just one in 2013. Diggs, a fifth-round draft pick, has a tough hill to climb to oust Sherels, who ranked as the sixth-most efficient punt returner last season, dropping from No. 2 in 2013.

Diggs has shown well through two preseason games, averaging 24.2 yards per return including longs of 62 yards against Pittsburgh and 37 yards against Tampa Bay. But his consistency in fielding, dropping some in practices and waving for a fair catch when he had room vs. the Steelers, is still a work in progress.

"Sherels more than likely will be our [punt] returner if everything works according to, of course what I would like. Obviously, he's our good punt returner and he's an excellent backup kickoff returner and he can play halfback on a kickoff return team because he's an effective blocker as well, no matter what his size is," Priefer said.

Link: http://www.1500espn.com/sportswire/Prie ... rner081915

[Mothman]

On a related note:

Vikings: Marcus Sherels, Cordarrelle Patterson likely to keep return jobs

"Marcus Sherels will more than likely be our (punt) returner if everything works according to ... what I would like," Priefer said. "Obviously, he's our good punt returner."

Minnesota's incumbent at returning kickoffs is third-year wide receiver Cordarrelle Patterson, who led the NFL in 2013 with a 32.4 average. Patterson only has two kickoff returns this preseason because Priefer has wanted to look at Sherels, DuJuan Harris and Joe Banyard in that role.

It would be a huge surprise, though, if Patterson isn't returning all kickoffs to start the regular season. For now, he's been given a lot of latitude to run the ball out from deep in his end zone.

[Mothman]

Here's a link to a brief Mark Craig article about Patterson in which he writes about the miscommunication between Patterson and Hill on Saturday night:

http://www.startribune.com/route-to-the ... 322643051/

Patterson is only 24 years old. This is the first time since junior college in Hutchinson, Kan., that he has been in the same offensive system in back-to-back seasons. And it’s Norv Turner’s system, which requires precise conceptual interpretation.

In other words, it ain’t easy and he’s trying. So let’s not give up on the kid just yet.

[fiestavike]

Here's a link to a brief Mark Craig article about Patterson in which he writes about the miscommunication between Patterson and Hill on Saturday night:

http://www.startribune.com/route-to-the ... 322643051/

I haven't given up, but I don't rule out the possibility that the Josh Cribbs analogy is his ceiling, either. In a year, in two years, in three years, will he be competent in the basic skills and knowledge required to be a legitimate NFL receiver?

Maybe.

The point I was really trying to make in some earlier posts (which I acknowledge were off base a little because I thought cuts would be tougher) is that if the Vikings see more immediate value in another player at another position, they can justify not hanging on to find out if Patterson will be able to 'make the leap'. That's not a knock of Patterson per se, I just hate the idea of holding onto a player only because of when he was drafted.

[Mothman]

I haven't given up, but I don't rule out the possibility that the Josh Cribbs analogy is his ceiling, either. In a year, in two years, in three years, will he be competent in the basic skills and knowledge required to be a legitimate NFL receiver?

Maybe.

The point I was really trying to make in some earlier posts (which I acknowledge were off base a little because I thought cuts would be tougher) is that if the Vikings see more immediate value in another player at another position, they can justify not hanging on to find out if Patterson will be able to 'make the leap'. That's not a knock of Patterson per se, I just hate the idea of holding onto a player only because of when he was drafted.

I hate that idea too but I don't hate the idea of holding onto a player who was drafted because he has a lot of natural talent, a player who has already produced spectacular scoring plays but whose skill level needs refinement. I'm sure Patterson has a ceiling but at this point, that ceiling isn't clear and a team that focuses too much on immediate value and not enough on long term potential risks being shortsighted.

They made the investment and it's already paid off at times on the field. They need to have the patience to follow through on Patterson's development.

[fiestavike]

I hate that idea too but I don't hate the idea of holding onto a player who was drafted because he has a lot of natural talent, a player who has already produced spectacular scoring plays but whose skill level needs refinement. I'm sure Patterson has a ceiling but at this point, that ceiling isn't clear and a team that focuses too much on immediate value and not enough on long term potential risks being shortsighted.

Definitely a good point. Teams have to find that balance between the immediate and the important, so to speak.

They made the investment and it's already paid off at times on the field. They need to have the patience to follow through on Patterson's development.

Frankly I agree. After having counted up the roster spots available and considering the guys competing for those spots, it seems clear Patterson should be included on the team.

[Mothman]

Definitely a good point. Teams have to find that balance between the immediate and the important, so to speak.
Frankly I agree. After having counted up the roster spots available and considering the guys competing for those spots, it seems clear Patterson should be included on the team.

Success!

[fiestavike]

Success!

No need to gloat Jim!

"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of a small mind"

[mansquatch]

I'm generally in agreement on Moth's take. Of all the WR on the team, including Wallace, CP has the greatest natural ability and highest upside. People seem to forget his size, he can run like a Percy Harvin and yet has big outside WR size, that is a very special and unique combination of physical talents. His issues seem entirely mental in nature, and I agree with all that above all else, they are frustrating.

I think one of CP's biggest issues is he came onto the big stage while still very immature as a man. He presented himself as such, and now many, including the media have established an expectation and low tolerance of his stupid behavior.

It is in all of our interest that he succeeds. He has the potential to be as game breaking as #28.

[Mothman]

No need to gloat Jim!

"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of a small mind"

LOL! Good quote.

I'm generally in agreement on Moth's take. Of all the WR on the team, including Wallace, CP has the greatest natural ability and highest upside. People seem to forget his size, he can run like a Percy Harvin and yet has big outside WR size, that is a very special and unique combination of physical talents. His issues seem entirely mental in nature, and I agree with all that above all else, they are frustrating.

I think one of CP's biggest issues is he came onto the big stage while still very immature as a man. He presented himself as such, and now many, including the media have established an expectation and low tolerance of his stupid behavior.

It is in all of our interest that he succeeds. He has the potential to be as game breaking as #28.

... and I think the presence of #28 should really help open up the field for Patterson (among others).

[losperros]

I'm generally in agreement on Moth's take. Of all the WR on the team, including Wallace, CP has the greatest natural ability and highest upside. People seem to forget his size, he can run like a Percy Harvin and yet has big outside WR size, that is a very special and unique combination of physical talents. His issues seem entirely mental in nature, and I agree with all that above all else, they are frustrating.

I think one of CP's biggest issues is he came onto the big stage while still very immature as a man. He presented himself as such, and now many, including the media have established an expectation and low tolerance of his stupid behavior.

It is in all of our interest that he succeeds. He has the potential to be as game breaking as #28.

I pretty much agree with the above. One thing that seems obvious to me is that Patterson immediately trailed off last season after Adrian Peterson no longer played. When AD is on the field, the attention is on him freed Patterson up during the 2014 first game. Just a thought.

Also, I don't give a rat's #### whether Patterson is basically a returner and does gadget plays. As long as he scores 9 TDs (or more) like he did during his rookie year, then I'm happy with the kid. Folks, I'm telling you, that touchdowns do matter. They come in handy when figuring the final score of a game.

That said, it's no skin off my nose regarding who Zimmer keeps and doesn't keep among the WRs. I trust Zimmer as the head coach and right now I'm fine with any decision he makes.