Texans @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Preseason #1

[Hunter Morrow]

If you're gonna cherry pick bad data for Cassel, his 15 game seasons are 3700 yards with 27 touchdowns to 7 interceptions, 1 lost fumble
and 3700 yards with 21 touchdowns and 15 turnovers. Do you really think Ponder has multiple 3700 yarders in him? Do you really think that?

Cassel would do more with Peterson, Patterson, Jennings, Wright, Rudolph and Burton than Ponder would.

[Mothman]

If you're gonna cherry pick bad data for Cassel...

I wasn't cherry picking so I'm sorry if you saw it that way. I just pointed out Cassel's basic stats for the past two seasons and they're bad. Since we're talking about the player he is today, not several years ago, his stats over the the two most recent seasons and the obvious, significant decline in his performance seem relevant. I realize he's had a few strong seasons as an NFL QB but I see no reason why Ponder can't do likewise.

Do you really think Ponder has multiple 3700 yarders in him? Do you really think that?

I have no idea. It's possible but I also don't think it matters since 3700 yard passing seasons aren't the goal and they don't guarantee winning, which IS the goal. Joe Flacco hasn't had multiple 3700 yard passing seasons either and he just won a Super Bowl ring with Ravens. They were one dropped pass away from playing in that game a year earlier and Flacco threw for less than 3700 yards that season. On the other hand, Matthew Stafford threw for almost 5000 yards last season and the Lions won 4 games.

I want Ponder to do the things necessary to win games. I don't care about his yardage totals or how far his passes travel through the air if he does what it takes to help his team win.

Cassel would do more with Peterson, Patterson, Jennings, Wright, Rudolph and Burton than Ponder would.

Pure speculation. either that or you have the power to see alternate futures in which case... cool!

[Funkytown]

18 pages about the first preseason game, huh? Wow. Y'all put that much stock into all this, huh? My friend texted me during the game and was like, "The Vikings message boards will be saying 'QB controversy! QB controversy! CASSEL CASSEL CASSEL!'" I laughed it off and told him he was crazy. He's not so crazy after all.

I don't get it, but okay. I don't have enough time to go back and read everyone's lovely comments about this game, but I would like to discuss all of the controversies in the league. You guys are fans of the NFL, right? How come there isn't a discussion in NFL Talk about the DOZENS of controversies/competitions around the league? I mean, only the elite quarterbacks are safe, right? They are the only ones who shouldn't have to "compete". Nothing? No one? What about ALL of the other 2nd and 3rd stringers from EVERY TEAM in the NFL from EVERY position who likely outplayed the 1st stringers? Ruh roh. Controversies across the board. I just know it! Game 1 of the preseason means so much. I'd like to read about it.

I have to go to sleep now, because I work overnights. But when I wake up, I'm hoping to find a thread in the NFL section about the 261 NFL controversies/competitions going on after the first games. Even when the coaches come out and name starters and say there WON'T be such a thing, oh...there should be. There better be! I'm counting on it!

[Funkytown]

3rd team. I was only half serious though. I'm just rooting for the guy because I really like him. I was able to see him here in Seattle and really loved how he handled everything and his teammates love him.

No need to be half serious. He did look good. I actually stayed up to watch the game. I was a bit tired, but from what I remember he had two 40 yard passes. They were nice. One was right. on. the. money. It couldn't have been any more perfect if he tried.

I really like him, too. I turned that game on after the Vikings game, and then I realized I had to watch the whole thing because Jackson was playing. That's my boy!

http://seattletimes.com/html/seahawks/2 ... 09xml.html

Jackson went 8 of 9 for 128 yards and a quarterback rating of 158.3 to lead Seattle to 24 second-half points. And in the process, he likely took a big step toward securing the backup quarterback job behind Russell Wilson.

“He played perfectly,’’ Carroll said of Jackson. “He was on it, he threw some great balls.’’

And...

Russell Wilson was 2 of 6 for 23 yards and was high on two throws on third down as Seattle’s starters gained 42 yards on their 12 plays.

Carroll said he thought the first-unit offense was a little sloppy.

All of Seattle’s points were scored by the reserves. But it wasn’t until Jackson entered the game midway through the third quarter that the Seahawks came alive. He hit receiver Stephen Williams with a 41-yard pass to set up a touchdown, and then connected again with Williams on a 42-yard touchdown early in the fourth quarter to blow the game open.

2 of 6? 23 yards? Missing throws?!?!? Especially on third down?!?! Ugh.

Jackson keeps this up...QB controversy! Totally! Preseason is where it's at!

[Texas Vike]

He demonstrably improved last year but I'm not "clinging to him as if he's the future of the franchise. I simply recognize that the Vikes have committed to seeing if he's their long term solution at QB and I see no point in fretting and #### about it for 3 years because that won't change a thing. He's been getting his shot for a season and a half, he'll keep getting his shot this year and during the time he's been here, I don't think there's been a better alternative on the roster. I don't consider Cassel a better alternative either. Keep in mind, I was in favor of drafting that alternative this year and beginning the process of developing a QB that could step in and become the potential future at QB if Ponder doesn't pan out.

In the end, I'm just trying to be patient and rational about the situation. You've obviously chosen a different approach.
Do us all a favor and wait quietly in the corner.

Jim, I feel your pain.

The worst of it is that rational posters get classified as "Ponder Apologists" by the rabid, foaming-at-the-mouth and wild-eyed fans who constantly scream that we need to find a HOF QB, as if they had it written on their foreheads and were a dime a dozen.

It is frustrating to watch what was a good message board suddenly transform into another outlet for the "replace the starting QB" crowd.

[Funkytown]

It is frustrating to watch what was a good message board suddenly transform into another outlet for the "replace the starting QB" crowd.

That did happen rather quickly.

[Mothman]

Jim, I feel your pain.

Thanks. I know I'm not the only one feeling this particular pain.

The worst of it is that rational posters get classified as "Ponder Apologists" by the rabid, foaming-at-the-mouth and wild-eyed fans who constantly scream that we need to find a HOF QB, as if they had it written on their foreheads and were a dime a dozen.

LOL! If it was written on their foreheads, that would certainly make things easier.

It is frustrating to watch what was a good message board suddenly transform into another outlet for the "replace the starting QB" crowd.

You can say that again, especially since this board was created as a haven from that sort of thing when a usenet newsgroup some of us frequented to discuss the Vikings was gradually overrun by trolls and idiots.

[Purple bruise]

Vikes at home 33-0 Walsh kicks 11 field goals 10 over 60 yds.

In a no win situation, I predict that if Ponder does well it will be called meaningless and if he doesn't play up to snuff he will be "blasted" .
Go Purple

Well that was not too difficult to imagine or predict The dyed in the wool cynics and bashers were in mid-season form. Ponder has one series, as the team had proclaimed that he would, throws a decent 1st pass (average throw) then has the next one bounce off of the receiver's hand and it gets intercepted BFD.
Starting his third year, that's all I wanted to see how he would perform ( not after one series in the first preseason game). I have said it before and will say it again, if Cassell or anyone else, known or unknown, can come in and lead this team to a championship then I am all for it.

[Skoltastic_Voyage]

Wow, some of you are borderline insane... Firstly, I don't know how many games you watched this preseaon but most of the QB's had crappy starts, look at Manning last night it took him a bit to get in the grove and that is a superbowl MVP QB. With that said the INT was on both of them, off target and a unintelligible tip. Cassel took a bit to not be a train wreck as well so the "Cassel woot woot" can stop please. Wow, unbelievable. Anyhow I was really excited to see 2 of the 1st rounders out there, CP84 with that amazing KR, T-Rex Floyd with his batted ball and tackle for a loss. Pretty excited, I would of loved to see Rhodes out there. Audie looked tired and sluggish when they were evaluating the 3rd strings which saddens me, I saw him carry himself well, just not very energetic. Seeing Mauti out there was a treat, he didn't do very much but I didn't see much that worried me either. Wow and Zach Line! I'm really liking our players lately.

[The Breeze]

What if chicken tasted likes grapes?...sheesh i'll be pondering that all day now~


As for glass half empty or full......sometimes the glass is just twice as big as it needs to be.

[Raptorman]

Yards is all that matters? Last years passing leaders. Drew Brees, 5,177 yards, Matthew Stafford 4967 yards, Tony Romo 4,903 yards. Yardage is not everything, Ponder was 21st in attempted passes last years. Stafford threw 244 more passes than Ponder. Yet with all that, he only threw 20 TD's to Ponders 18. It's not just about yardage. Rating a QB strictly on yards gained is foolish to say the least. That's why we have ratings, which even then, they don't take everything into account, just usually the raw numbers. This is the make it or break it season for Ponder. And if anyone here were really that good a evaluating talent, well, I would think you would be scout for an NFL team, not typing your opinions on an Internet forum.

The favorite player on the with a questionable QB is always the backup QB.

[Mothman]

Wow, some of you are borderline insane... Firstly, I don't know how many games you watched this preseaon but most of the QB's had crappy starts, look at Manning last night it took him a bit to get in the grove and that is a superbowl MVP QB. With that said the INT was on both of them, off target and a unintelligible tip. Cassel took a bit to not be a train wreck as well so the "Cassel woot woot" can stop please. Wow, unbelievable. Anyhow I was really excited to see 2 of the 1st rounders out there, CP84 with that amazing KR, T-Rex Floyd with his batted ball and tackle for a loss. Pretty excited, I would of loved to see Rhodes out there. Audie looked tired and sluggish when they were evaluating the 3rd strings which saddens me, I saw him carry himself well, just not very energetic. Seeing Mauti out there was a treat, he didn't do very much but I didn't see much that worried me either. Wow and Zach Line! I'm really liking our players lately.

I haven't seen the whole game yet but Patterson's performance definitely has me excited. That guy is going to make some great plays for the Vikes this year.

What if chicken tasted likes grapes?...sheesh i'll be pondering that all day now~

As for glass half empty or full......sometimes the glass is just twice as big as it needs to be.

LOL! I'll be pondering that all day.

[Texas Vike]

First. Cassel is terrible. But the backup is always the most popular guy in time.

Second. There is waaayy too much overreaction to 2 passes in the 1st pre-season game. In order to play Ponder longer that means you have to play the rest of the first teamers. Do you want Kalil or someone getting hurt? Or do you want Ponder out there with Seth Olsen and DeMarcus Love and have him look like MBT and Vandenberg did? Then everyone would really complain.

I don't think Cassel is terrible, but the interception he threw (looking for Carlson) was MUCH worse than Ponder's, but you won't here that from the overreacting mouth foamers. Cassel would surely like to have that throw back: his feet were not set and he just lofted a throw up without any caution. Poor choice. Apart from that throw I thought Cassel looked pretty solid and I was super glad to see that we have a much improved backup QB situation this year. If Ponder does, indeed, fall on his face like so many doomsday types predict here... well, we have a capable backup.

[Texas Vike]

Any new news on Floyd? We are going to see Rhodes next week right?

I read somewhere that Frazier thought Floyd could have gone back in on Friday, but they decided against it. I think he's OK. I hope he's able to play vs. the Bills.

[losperros]

I definitively state right now: Cassel is better.

And I definitively state right now: it doesn't matter.

Maybe Ponder proves this year that he's not the answer at QB. Well, neither is Cassel. Should Ponder falter, then the Vikings are back to base one in finding a franchise QB.

This feels like Jackson/Frerotte all over again.

And neither one of them were the answer as a franchise QB for the Vikings. So, yes, maybe it will be the same situation.