Vikings Message Board.Com

VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Wed Sep 08, 2021 1:44 am

J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 07, 2021 10:03 pm
86% is still better than anything we’ve had since.

Look, I get it. Walsh fell apart. I’m interested in the timing. He was good … then Zimmer came, and he wasn’t. Nor has anyone else been except maybe Bailey for part of a season. There’s no winning this argument, but I think there’s a good chance Zimmer has a negative effect on kickers. You’re not going to change my mind, and it appears I’m not going to change yours.

Just don’t be surprised when our kicking game sucks again this year.

If I was an NFL quality kicker I wouldn't join the Vikings unless I had no other option.

J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 07, 2021 10:03 pm

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Tue Sep 07, 2021 8:44 am
That was good for top 10 in 2012 and 19th in 2013. Walsh was a below average kicker in 4 of his 6 seasons, and a bottom 5 one in 3 of his 6 seasons. He had his best season before Zimmer became coach, his second best season after Zimmer gave him a chance to make up for his poor 2014, and was terrible after that.

Zimmer sticking with Walsh in 2015 might be the reason he has so little patience with kickers now. He stuck with him and he ended up losing him a playoff game on a kick that couldn't have been easier to make.

86% is still better than anything we’ve had since.

Look, I get it. Walsh fell apart. I’m interested in the timing. He was good … then Zimmer came, and he wasn’t. Nor has anyone else been except maybe Bailey for part of a season. There’s no winning this argument, but I think there’s a good chance Zimmer has a negative effect on kickers. You’re not going to change my mind, and it appears I’m not going to change yours.

Just don’t be surprised when our kicking game sucks again this year.

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Wed Sep 08, 2021 7:14 am

J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 07, 2021 10:03 pm
86% is still better than anything we’ve had since.

Look, I get it. Walsh fell apart. I’m interested in the timing. He was good … then Zimmer came, and he wasn’t. Nor has anyone else been except maybe Bailey for part of a season. There’s no winning this argument, but I think there’s a good chance Zimmer has a negative effect on kickers. You’re not going to change my mind, and it appears I’m not going to change yours.

Just don’t be surprised when our kicking game sucks again this year.

86% is not better than anything we had since. Walsh himself was better than that in 2015, despite his HC being Mike Zimmer. Bailey was much better than that in 2019 with Zimmer as his HC. Kai Forbath made 100% when he replaced Walsh after he was cut.

There is no pattern with kickers and Zimmer. Sometimes they do well, sometimes they don't.

TheCoolerOne wrote: ↑Wed Sep 08, 2021 8:53 am

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Wed Sep 08, 2021 7:14 am

86% is not better than anything we had since. Walsh himself was better than that in 2015, despite his HC being Mike Zimmer. Bailey was much better than that in 2019 with Zimmer as his HC. Kai Forbath made 100% when he replaced Walsh after he was cut.

There is no pattern with kickers and Zimmer. Sometimes they do well, sometimes they don't.

The percentages aren't really what matter, to me, anyway. It is the how the 24% is missed, citing Walsh's 86%, that sticks in both our minds and Zimmer's.

In Walsh's case, it is how a certain 4% was missed.

Same for Bailey and Carlson (however brief the tenure). It is these unforgettable moments and meltdowns that are just hard to get past, for everyone. The kickers, Zimmer, us.

Bailey in the Tampa game where we were riding a streak that could have planted us firmly in the playoff picture, Carlson flopping in what was otherwise an epic comeback.

I don't think any stigma associated with kicking in Minnesota is tied to Zimmer, it's the kickers that preceded the next one doing something that sticks with the franchise.

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Wed Sep 08, 2021 7:14 am

J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 07, 2021 10:03 pm
86% is still better than anything we’ve had since.

Look, I get it. Walsh fell apart. I’m interested in the timing. He was good … then Zimmer came, and he wasn’t. Nor has anyone else been except maybe Bailey for part of a season. There’s no winning this argument, but I think there’s a good chance Zimmer has a negative effect on kickers. You’re not going to change my mind, and it appears I’m not going to change yours.

Just don’t be surprised when our kicking game sucks again this year.

86% is not better than anything we had since. Walsh himself was better than that in 2015, despite his HC being Mike Zimmer. Bailey was much better than that in 2019 with Zimmer as his HC. Kai Forbath made 100% when he replaced Walsh after he was cut.

There is no pattern with kickers and Zimmer. Sometimes they do well, sometimes they don't.

TheCoolerOne wrote: ↑Wed Sep 08, 2021 8:53 am

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Wed Sep 08, 2021 7:14 am

86% is not better than anything we had since. Walsh himself was better than that in 2015, despite his HC being Mike Zimmer. Bailey was much better than that in 2019 with Zimmer as his HC. Kai Forbath made 100% when he replaced Walsh after he was cut.

There is no pattern with kickers and Zimmer. Sometimes they do well, sometimes they don't.

The percentages aren't really what matter, to me, anyway. It is the how the 24% is missed, citing Walsh's 86%, that sticks in both our minds and Zimmer's.

In Walsh's case, it is how a certain 4% was missed.

Same for Bailey and Carlson (however brief the tenure). It is these unforgettable moments and meltdowns that are just hard to get past, for everyone. The kickers, Zimmer, us.

Bailey in the Tampa game where we were riding a streak that could have planted us firmly in the playoff picture, Carlson flopping in what was otherwise an epic comeback.

I don't think any stigma associated with kicking in Minnesota is tied to Zimmer, it's the kickers that preceded the next one doing something that sticks with the franchise.

VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Wed Sep 08, 2021 10:48 am

TheCoolerOne wrote: ↑Wed Sep 08, 2021 8:53 am

The percentages aren't really what matter, to me, anyway. It is the how the 24% is missed, citing Walsh's 86%, that sticks in both our minds and Zimmer's.

In Walsh's case, it is how a certain 4% was missed.

Same for Bailey and Carlson (however brief the tenure). It is these unforgettable moments and meltdowns that are just hard to get past, for everyone. The kickers, Zimmer, us.

Bailey in the Tampa game where we were riding a streak that could have planted us firmly in the playoff picture, Carlson flopping in what was otherwise an epic comeback.

I don't think any stigma associated with kicking in Minnesota is tied to Zimmer, it's the kickers that preceded the next one doing something that sticks with the franchise.

You can never know how a kicker is going to do in "certain moments".

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Wed Sep 08, 2021 1:51 pm

VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Wed Sep 08, 2021 10:48 am
You can never know how a kicker is going to do in "certain moments".

Do you think a kicker who can't handle the pressure of his HC being mad at him if he misses might be more likely to struggle in "certain moments"?

VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Wed Sep 08, 2021 2:11 pm

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Wed Sep 08, 2021 1:51 pm

Do you think a kicker who can't handle the pressure of his HC being mad at him if he misses might be more likely to struggle in "certain moments"?

Zimmer messes up Kickers. I think there's a mountain of evidence regarding this. You can choose to ignore the evidence. It's a free country mostly.

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Wed Sep 08, 2021 2:26 pm

VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Wed Sep 08, 2021 2:11 pm
Zimmer messes up Kickers. I think there's a mountain of evidence regarding this. You can choose to ignore the evidence. It's a free country mostly.

The "mountain of evidence" provided so far is anecdotal at best.

VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Wed Sep 08, 2021 10:48 am

TheCoolerOne wrote: ↑Wed Sep 08, 2021 8:53 am

The percentages aren't really what matter, to me, anyway. It is the how the 24% is missed, citing Walsh's 86%, that sticks in both our minds and Zimmer's.

In Walsh's case, it is how a certain 4% was missed.

Same for Bailey and Carlson (however brief the tenure). It is these unforgettable moments and meltdowns that are just hard to get past, for everyone. The kickers, Zimmer, us.

Bailey in the Tampa game where we were riding a streak that could have planted us firmly in the playoff picture, Carlson flopping in what was otherwise an epic comeback.

I don't think any stigma associated with kicking in Minnesota is tied to Zimmer, it's the kickers that preceded the next one doing something that sticks with the franchise.

You can never know how a kicker is going to do in "certain moments".

VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Wed Sep 08, 2021 3:02 pm

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Wed Sep 08, 2021 2:26 pm

The "mountain of evidence" provided so far is anecdotal at best.

Still a mountain. Forbath the one he didn't mess up he had to replace.

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Wed Sep 08, 2021 7:55 pm

VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Wed Sep 08, 2021 3:02 pm
Still a mountain. Forbath the one he didn't mess up he had to replace.

Let's explore the mountain of evidence provided.

Blair Walsh was pretty good in 2012, below average in 2013, really bad in 2014 (first year outdoors in the NFL) when Zimmer took over, above average in 2015 with Zimmer as his HC still, then was so bad he was cut. He had one more season with another team where he was also really bad.

A rookie kicker was really bad in his first two games with Zimmer as his HC and was cut.

What else?

Bowhunting Viking wrote: ↑Wed Sep 08, 2021 7:12 pm

VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Wed Sep 08, 2021 10:48 am
You can never know how a kicker is going to do in "certain moments".

I bet Gary Anderson would give you a Thumbs Up if it still worked.
That's the most devastating kick in my life history... so far.

VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Wed Sep 08, 2021 8:27 pm

Bowhunting Viking wrote: ↑Wed Sep 08, 2021 7:12 pm

I bet Gary Anderson would give you a Thumbs Up if it still worked.
That's the most devastating kick in my life history... so far.

Gary Anderson had many/many certain moments in his career where he was successful.