Vikings Message Board.Com

VikingLord wrote: ↑Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:39 pm

S197 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:17 pm I don't see it as a no win situation. He can earn a ton by beating a team tonight that probably should have a 1st round home game/bye if not for the NFC East screwing everyone. Or by winning the division. Or a playoff game.

Kirk has done a lot but in my view he still has a lot to prove. We didn't pay the guy $84 million to beat the NFC East, we paid him to win in December and January.

Yes, it's a team game so it's not as binary as wins and losses. But this is an extremely talented roster and I expect a commensurate level of performance. From everyone but especially from the guy we broke the bank for.

I know this has been beaten to death around here, but I look at tonight's game more along the lines of your last sentence than as Cousins needing to prove something. The Vikings broke the bank for a lot of their current roster. All of them, including the coaches, have to step up to the mantle. Tonight is a perfect time to do that.

Of the major concerns I have heading into tonight's game, Cousins isn't one of them. He's played well over the last 7 games for sure, and provided the offensive line protects him adequately tonight, I expect him to play well again.

S197 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:04 am

VikingLord wrote: ↑Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:39 pm

I know this has been beaten to death around here, but I look at tonight's game more along the lines of your last sentence than as Cousins needing to prove something. The Vikings broke the bank for a lot of their current roster. All of them, including the coaches, have to step up to the mantle. Tonight is a perfect time to do that.

Of the major concerns I have heading into tonight's game, Cousins isn't one of them. He's played well over the last 7 games for sure, and provided the offensive line protects him adequately tonight, I expect him to play well again.

I think tonight was a good illustration of why the Cousins debate ignores the larger issue, which is are the Vikings very good? Let’s say for a moment the debate was about the defense. The theoretical “haters” would point out the run D was awful and there were dumb penalties and broken coverages. The “apologists” would point out the D scored a TD, caused a turnover after special teams let them down, and also held in the red zone after the offense turned the ball over multiple times. Both are correct statements, they just ignore the opposite side.

And I think that happens with Cousins. We should be having the same debate about the defense, special teams, coaching and personnel choices. They all played a role in the loss tonight. No one area played well. The paradox with this team is they’re good enough to give fans hope but just not good enough to get to the next level. They’re a quasi-wildcard team that over or under shoots that mark by a game or so on a continual basis.

CharVike wrote: ↑Tue Dec 03, 2019 7:56 am

S197 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:04 am

I think tonight was a good illustration of why the Cousins debate ignores the larger issue, which is are the Vikings very good? Let’s say for a moment the debate was about the defense. The theoretical “haters” would point out the run D was awful and there were dumb penalties and broken coverages. The “apologists” would point out the D scored a TD, caused a turnover after special teams let them down, and also held in the red zone after the offense turned the ball over multiple times. Both are correct statements, they just ignore the opposite side.

And I think that happens with Cousins. We should be having the same debate about the defense, special teams, coaching and personnel choices. They all played a role in the loss tonight. No one area played well. The paradox with this team is they’re good enough to give fans hope but just not good enough to get to the next level. They’re a quasi-wildcard team that over or under shoots that mark by a game or so on a continual basis.

quasi-wildcard team. That describes our current team perfectly. We have a good team that can challenge for a wild card. For the fans that want a Super Bowl that don't cut it. Getting in as a wildcard gives us very little chance to make the show. We need to hit the road and beat 3 good teams. It don't get much tougher than that. We lost as a team. No sense in pointing out blame. The Hawks were just to much for us on this night. These west coast trips are very hard. We had to play at our best to have a chance. We didn't do that as a team. Maybe one or two guys had a great game. Who cares. That don't cut it. We needed 46 to have a great game to give us a chance. Our team got there asse$$ kicked. Didn't show up which is the tough part. Get down and play hard. Don't let them push you all over the field. The answer is we lack a top level talented roster. We have a quasi wild card roster.

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Tue Dec 03, 2019 8:52 am

CharVike wrote: ↑Tue Dec 03, 2019 7:56 am
quasi-wildcard team. That describes our current team perfectly. We have a good team that can challenge for a wild card. For the fans that want a Super Bowl that don't cut it. Getting in as a wildcard gives us very little chance to make the show. We need to hit the road and beat 3 good teams. It don't get much tougher than that. We lost as a team. No sense in pointing out blame. The Hawks were just to much for us on this night. These west coast trips are very hard. We had to play at our best to have a chance. We didn't do that as a team. Maybe one or two guys had a great game. Who cares. That don't cut it. We needed 46 to have a great game to give us a chance. Our team got there asse$$ kicked. Didn't show up which is the tough part. Get down and play hard. Don't let them push you all over the field. The answer is we lack a top level talented roster. We have a quasi wild card roster.

I'm almost positive that Pittsburgh and GB both won SBs as a 6 seed....

TSonn wrote: ↑Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:38 am LOL just saw this in a tweet: Kirk Cousins simply cannot allow 400-plus yards on defense and expect to be considered an elite quarterback. #Vikings

mansquatch wrote: ↑Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:54 am IMO we are either on level with SF or slightly below.

mansquatch wrote: ↑Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:54 am GB and DAL are the playoff posers IMO. DAL is obvious with their .500 record in the worst division in the NFL. GB, when you look at the schedule is also pretty disgusting. They've had three wins against winning teams. They beat us in week 2, DAL in week 5, and KC in week 8. However, I'd be hesitant to annoit them. Our offense wasn't what it is today in week 2. We play that game again today and I like our chances. The KC win was good timing, they got the face KC the first full week of Matt Moore being QB. Lucky Packers...

VikingLord wrote: ↑Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:59 am

mansquatch wrote: ↑Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:54 am IMO we are either on level with SF or slightly below.

You think the Vikings could take the Ravens almost to overtime at the Ravens?

mansquatch wrote: ↑Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:54 am
We just were within 4 points of beating the team that handled the 49ers, and we did it on the road and in primetime. So yeah, I do.

This might be the most underappreciated 8-4 team in the league right now. It certainly has it's problems, but are you guys really saying we were not competitive with SEA last night? I get we lost, but we didn't lose 35-0. Difference in that game was about 4 or 5 plays. This team is competitive, even if it is on the outside looking in.

mansquatch wrote: ↑Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:54 am I don't like that we lost last night, but that wasn't a terrible loss. That was a hard fought game in which both teams battled back from adversity. The Vikings just couldn't quite overcome the mistakes on defense. That begs more commentary, but I'll deal with that in another post. I think folks are looking at the standings and getting dismayed about this team. I wouldn't.

NFC has 6 teams at the top within a win of each other this season. That doesn't happen very often. The Vikings situation is as much a result of the schedule we've played as it is the schedules the other top NFC teams are playing. We've lost two games against strong road opponents: KC and SEA. We also lost two games in the division, played in September. September is a tough time to play on the road in the NFL. I did a post a few weeks back comparing GB, SF, NO, and the Vikings. Of those teams, only the Vikings had played three divisional road games and as such we were behind in the standings. That still remains true today. If we win out, which we well might, we will end up 12-4. In most seasons that is a playoff bye week and a division crown. Just not in 2019 with such a top heavy NFC. As a result of this we are on the outside looking in despite an excellent record.

IMO the true NFC Contenders are SEA and NO. Neither of them is a true juggernaut though, they just grit out wins.

SF is a bit of an enigma. They are good, but I'm not sure they are in the same class as SEA and NO. Maybe the same class as us.

IMO we are either on level with SF or slightly below. We gritted out the win vs. Dallas, but couldn't do it against KC. We had some early issues in September as our offense came together. I can accept that as September is in a lot of ways an extension of the pre-season. We've handled everyone else. As I said, we played competitive football last night, the game came down to three or 4 plays. It could have been better for sure, but that isn't a result that shows a team being outclassed. That result was competitive.

GB and DAL are the playoff posers IMO. DAL is obvious with their .500 record in the worst division in the NFL. GB, when you look at the schedule is also pretty disgusting. They've had three wins against winning teams. They beat us in week 2, DAL in week 5, and KC in week 8. However, I'd be hesitant to annoit them. Our offense wasn't what it is today in week 2. We play that game again today and I like our chances. The KC win was good timing, they got the face KC the first full week of Matt Moore being QB. Lucky Packers...

VikingLord wrote: ↑Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:39 pm

S197 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:17 pm I don't see it as a no win situation. He can earn a ton by beating a team tonight that probably should have a 1st round home game/bye if not for the NFC East screwing everyone. Or by winning the division. Or a playoff game.

Kirk has done a lot but in my view he still has a lot to prove. We didn't pay the guy $84 million to beat the NFC East, we paid him to win in December and January.

Yes, it's a team game so it's not as binary as wins and losses. But this is an extremely talented roster and I expect a commensurate level of performance. From everyone but especially from the guy we broke the bank for.

I know this has been beaten to death around here, but I look at tonight's game more along the lines of your last sentence than as Cousins needing to prove something. The Vikings broke the bank for a lot of their current roster. All of them, including the coaches, have to step up to the mantle. Tonight is a perfect time to do that.

Of the major concerns I have heading into tonight's game, Cousins isn't one of them. He's played well over the last 7 games for sure, and provided the offensive line protects him adequately tonight, I expect him to play well again.

CharVike wrote: ↑Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:58 pm Come on. Seattle did whatever they wanted to on offense. We were lucky they took it easy on us.

J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:05 pm Instead, we talk about Cousins and his $28 million, and how a 125 rating over 7 games and a 6-1 record isn't good enough. Or two picks over about 400 throws ... and both of those because of Diggs drops. At least that highly paid player is doing his freaking job.

J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:05 pm

VikingLord wrote: ↑Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:39 pm

I know this has been beaten to death around here, but I look at tonight's game more along the lines of your last sentence than as Cousins needing to prove something. The Vikings broke the bank for a lot of their current roster. All of them, including the coaches, have to step up to the mantle. Tonight is a perfect time to do that.

Of the major concerns I have heading into tonight's game, Cousins isn't one of them. He's played well over the last 7 games for sure, and provided the offensive line protects him adequately tonight, I expect him to play well again.

There it is.

The Vikings are paying Kirk Cousins no more than they're paying other players, respective to the positions they pay.

Take Xavier Rhodes, a $13.3 million cap hit ... and for what? To give up 4-for-4 for 99 yards and a touchdown? Cousins is paid to handle the ball 75 times a game. Rhodes is paid to stop 4 passes, and he can't even stop ONE. Trae Waynes ... a $9 million cap hit for an average corner. That's $22.3 million for our starting CBs, and we're getting torched routinely. Linval Joseph, Mr. Run Stuffer ... $10.2 million, and we get run all over. Riley Reiff is pulling down $11.7 million for incredibly average LT play, often below average. Where is the weeping and gnashing of teeth over those guys?

Instead, we talk about Cousins and his $28 million, and how a 125 rating over 7 games and a 6-1 record isn't good enough. Or two picks over about 400 throws ... and both of those because of Diggs drops. At least that highly paid player is doing his freaking job.