Vikings Message Board.Com

I think there is one key difference between Zimmer and Childress and that is that for the most part it seems the players like playing for him. Childress did not seem to have anyone's respect and while he built some winning teams, it seemed to me those teams won more in spite of him than because of him. Whereas with Zimmer it seems the team reflects him more. The players like playing for him.

IMHO, the real problem with the Vikings under Zimmer is that the team lacks clear player leaders on both sides of the ball. In 2009, for instance, Favre was a clear player leader on offense and Jared Allen was that guy on defense.

Since Zimmer took over, who are those player leaders? The defense has several very good, veteran players, some more emotional than others, but who is the guy who steps up to settle things down when the unit needs to be settled down, or steps up to make the big play when the unit needs the big play? Who is the guy who has the experience and temperament to fundamentally understand what needs to happen and makes sure everyone around him knows it and does it?

This is the sort of thing that shows up in key situations like the last Packer drive. It's the 4th quarter. The offense needs to get the ball back. The defense needs to step up. Everyone has to understand the situation and play within the scheme. No mistakes can be made - mistakes like allowing a huge cutback lane to open up that allows Green Bay to pick up a 1st down running. That just can't happen, but it does because despite all that on-field talent and experience, in those key moments the defensive players still tend to play by themselves. Without that player leadership, once it starts to rain on this defense, it tends to pour. They've shown a consistent inability to settle down and figure it out quickly, which leads to bursts of yards and points against them every time the opposing OC figures out a way to nick at what they're doing. That can happen at the beginning of a game, in the middle, or at the end. At home or on the road. Find a way to get them off balance and they'll usually remain that way for the next several drives, giving up 10+ points along the way until they finally settle down or adjust to whatever the opposing OC changed.

The result has been 2.5-3 quarters of sometimes great defense interspersed with almost complete incompetence. Yes, the coaches bear some blame for that too, but the lack of real on-field player leadership to hold everyone accountable and reinforce what needs to happen hurts almost as much. It's usually not fatal, and sometimes the team overall can overcome this, but usually not against the better teams or in higher-stakes situations. This, even more than any flaws inherent in the special teams or in the offense (including Cousins), is what will cost this team success in the playoffs should it get that far.

I'm not sure if we'll see this against the Raiders. The Raiders are so-so overall, but I would be shocked if the same scenario doesn't manifest the following week against the Bears. I suspect the Vikings defense will find a way to make the Bear offense look otherworldly for at least a quarter of that game. Mitchell Trubisky, who has spent the first few games of this year struggling to resemble a pro QB in any sense of that word, is going to suddenly find his stride for about 15-25 minutes of that game. Whether it costs the Vikings the overall game I can't say, but mark my words - we'll see a substantial period of time where the Bears offense goes off against the Vikings defense and the Vikings defense seemingly has no answer for it. Could be against the run, could be the pass, could be both, but I'm almost certain it will happen. And the fact that they'll shut the Bears down for the remainder of the game won't change the fact of this underlying dynamic one bit.

It's hard to blame this on Zimmer, though, because who is responsible for developing player leadership? I mean, Childress hardly developed it in Favre or Allen. Grant probably didn't develop it in guys like Page or Tarkenton, either. It's just there or it isn't it seems. It's another characteristic a GM and scouts have to be on the lookout for when evaluating college players in addition to their speed, size and strength. Zimmer might just have gotten unlucky in that he has a lot of talent, but no real leaders.

This is also why I don't think it matters as much who plays QB, at least not in terms of this dynamic on defense. Yes, the offense struggles with the same issue, but the defense is the heart of this team. That's also the unit that needs to be solid in the playoffs. Very few teams have won Superbowls without solid defensive performances in each playoff game.

And not to get way off the topic here because I know there is already a Case Keenum thread going, but if Case had one thing to offer that Cousins doesn't, it's that aura of leadership. That on-field bravado and ability to step up to make the big play that inspires his teammates. To some degree, Sloter had that as well, although against lower-level competition. But I think all the chatter about those two players reflects this aspect of their personalities on the field more than it does their physical talent.

mansquatch wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2019 1:21 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2019 10:26 am First off, Zim won’t be fired at years end unless something drastic happened. But this is yet another overreaction on this board this week on top of so many already. One bad game and sitting at 1-1 and I’ve seen possibly letting Zim go, trading for Sloter, trading for Keenum, wanting teddy back and cutting cousins. I’m almost more ticked at myself than anything for revisiting the board time and time again this week. Because this is what happens on here when we have a bad game. ITS GOING ON WEEK 3!! Discuss this crap at the end of the year when we know what our record is, when we know what cousins does, when we know how far we advance. My goodness! Yeah it sucks we lost to the packers and had a chance in the end. It’s done and over with. It’s not week 16. We’ve played two games for crying out loud!

And second, Mike McCarthy??! Absolutely not. A guy that simply rode Rodgers coat tails and struggled to put legitimate defenses together. I’d rather see one of us coach the team than that guy.

REPORTING FOR DUTY!! J/K

Honestly dude, it sometimes feels like half the responses on here didn't even watch the game. I saw our defense suck for 2.25 drives and then our offense couldn't get it's crap together to pounce on a floundering opponent who was ready to choke the game away. The Packers hardly looked like a playoff team, let alone a division winner.

I didn't see anything that can't be fixed.

What is most obnoxious is the doom and gloom here is just as omnipresent on AM1500 every day. Those guys think last Sunday was Cousin's ceiling and the defense needs ot be the 2000 Ravnes in order for us to even have a shot at a playoff win. It is absurd. Cousins didn't have that bad of a season last year: (4000 yards, 30 TD, anyone? Bueller?) but apparently after one bad week and an offseason on the stefanski kool-aid and now he is in the realm of Ponder. The pessimism is real!

Reality this OL is already looking better than last years and we are seeing more balanced play calling. Eventually the passing attack will find it's stride. Unless you actually believe Cousins really is a teenage princess who can't handle any kind of adversity. (Looking at you Zulugad.)

I'm pretty sure Cousins could have a perfect QBR and throw for 5 TDs and there would still be half the board saying "Oh it was just the Raiders against a good team he'll throw for 100 yards and 25 INTs."

Lol completely agree. These are indeed overreactions. Dress it up all you want.

And as for your final paragraph, yeah I’ve said the same before too. If cousins plays well you’ll hear “he beat a losing team big deal”.

I wonder what Broncos fans said last year when Keenum lost to the jets, 49ers and raiders. Losing to teams he should beat. But guess we can keep riding that miracle season when he can’t even get past the worst teams in the nfl. I’m sure he’d really come here and dominate GB lol. Or teddy, a guy that can’t even throw a football against Carolinas 2nd stringers. Or sloter, who has never played a meaningful nfl snap. Yeah let’s go get those guys.....to the promised land we go!! No less imagine either of those 3 in flips pass happy offense last year throwing 40 times a game. You thought 8 wins was bad? We’d be lucky to have 4 with any of those 3 starting last year. Some fans don’t realize how bad it really could be, and with any of those 3, it would have been horrid to watch.

Bottom line is, cousins is our QB, he’s not going to get traded, it is week 3, a lot of season to go, stop with the overreaction bull crap

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2019 10:37 pm
Bottom line is, cousins is our QB, he’s not going to get traded, it is week 3, a lot of season to go, stop with the overreaction bull crap

I don't think most people are over reacting. I still think this could be a 10 win team, and I found most things about the game last week encouraging. I see this team headed in the right direction...with one glaring exception. Kirk Cousins so far has played even lower than my expectations. I really thought in this system he would be a model of efficiency.

Moth has been wanting to move on from Zimmer and Spielman for at least the last couple seasons, so his criticism isn't overreaction to the last game either. I don't agree with his take, but its not like its a knee jerk response to losing a game.

As someone else said, there is a realization amongst most of the fan base that is nearly universal now, after that performance last week, that if the Vikings are going to win a championship, they are going to have to overcome Kirk Cousins weaknesses in order to do it, and that is a great disappointment given the expectations many had for him, and even more so given that this team has all the other pieces it would need to be a true contender. This is a much better team than the one's Keenum and Bridgewater got to play QB for during their time in Minnesota, where they still managed to have some success, which is why you are hearing those names come up...It would only take competence from the QB position to put this team in the SB conversation.

fiestavike wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2019 7:51 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2019 10:37 pm
Bottom line is, cousins is our QB, he’s not going to get traded, it is week 3, a lot of season to go, stop with the overreaction bull crap

I don't think most people are over reacting. I still think this could be a 10 win team, and I found most things about the game last week encouraging. I see this team headed in the right direction...with one glaring exception. Kirk Cousins so far has played even lower than my expectations. I really thought in this system he would be a model of efficiency.

Moth has been wanting to move on from Zimmer and Spielman for at least the last couple seasons, so his criticism isn't overreaction to the last game either. I don't agree with his take, but its not like its a knee jerk response to losing a game.

As someone else said, there is a realization amongst most of the fan base that is nearly universal now, after that performance last week, that if the Vikings are going to win a championship, they are going to have to overcome Kirk Cousins weaknesses in order to do it, and that is a great disappointment given the expectations many had for him, and even more so given that this team has all the other pieces it would need to be a true contender. This is a much better team than the one's Keenum and Bridgewater got to play QB for during their time in Minnesota, where they still managed to have some success, which is why you are hearing those names come up...It would only take competence from the QB position to put this team in the SB conversation.

This team is more talented than Bridgewaters, yes. Keenum's I would say it's pretty much the same. But Bridgewater is playing for a very talented team in New Orleans and still can't get it done. And Keenum has showed that he's not a very good QB.

Cousins has played lower than my expectations as well. But again, what do we have to really go on? Was week 1 any kind of tell when we got off to a hot start and had no need to throw. Granted he did his job and went 8-10 and a TD but we didn't need to throw 40 times that game. So IMO, that game is a wash. So the only true game we can go off of right now is GB which obviously he played terrible. But this is why I'm saying a lot of this is overreacting. And I know for a fact some on here agree. We are essentially judging this team and Cousins off of 1 game. And yes he played bad so criticize all you want but to say we should cut him/trade him, wishing we still had Keenum, trade for Sloter or trade for Teddy are 100% overreactions and completely unrealistic. And like I said in another post, all 3 of those QBs I just mentioned would have DRASTICALLY struggled in Flips pass happy system. Teddy NEEDED a RB to rely on in order to win. Keenum NEEDED a good run game to win. Sloter never played a down. If we did keep those guys instead of Cousins I can guarantee they wouldn't be on the team this year because they would have won about 4 games last year when they are being forced to pass all game.

And as for Zimmer, again, we're 1-1. Who in the right mind fires there coach when they are 1-1?? Idc what Moth said over the years regarding Spielman and Zimmer. We're heading into week 3. And he's not going to be fired after going 1-1. So why are we discussing it. Discuss it when you actually have a good sample size to go off of. If we're 1-6 then I'm sure we'll all be talking about it. But coming up, we have a good shot to start off 4-1 or 3-2 at the worst. Hell, even after the first 5 games we then have Detroit, Philly at home and Washington. All very winnable games. My point is, we're 1-1 and to have these unrealistic discussions and call for everyones head is as premature as it can get.

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2019 10:10 amAnd as for Zimmer, again, we're 1-1. Who in the right mind fires there coach when they are 1-1??

Nobody is suggesting they fire Zimmer now. That would be foolish. This whole thread is about whether he will be the coach beyond this season.

So why are we discussing it.

Because it's tied to his coaching performance. Because we just saw the team show up and play the kind of unprepared, frustrating, disappointing game we've been seeing for years now and how they play during Zimmer's sixth season will influence what happens after the season.

We're not goldfish. We have the capacity to consider past performances and future consequences.

It's Zimmer's 6th year and we'd be naive to think this isn't a "put up or shut up" year for him to at least some extent. The Wilfs tend to be pretty patient so who knows but his team can't keep laying eggs like they have in their last two divisional games and they can't afford to miss the playoffs again. If they do, then realistically, he may not be coaching the Vikings in 2020.

I understand it's early in the season with a lot of football remaining to be played but you may as well face facts: speculation about the future of a head coach in Zimmer's position is inevitable.

Discuss it when you actually have a good sample size to go off of.

We've got 5+ years. That IS a good sample size for discussion.

My point is, we're 1-1 and to have these unrealistic discussions and call for everyones head is as premature as it can get.

Again, we can weigh more than what's occurring right now. Cousins has a track record. Zimmer has a track record. Spielman has a track record. There's more to discuss than just week-to-week performance. What they do now fits within the bigger picture of their overall performance.

VikingLord wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2019 5:45 pm I think there is one key difference between Zimmer and Childress and that is that for the most part it seems the players like playing for him. Childress did not seem to have anyone's respect and while he built some winning teams, it seemed to me those teams won more in spite of him than because of him. Whereas with Zimmer it seems the team reflects him more. The players like playing for him.

I agree, that's a significant difference between the two coaches.

You raise an interesting point about on-field leadership. I'm not sure who's providing it. Harrison Smith plays like a leader on defense but I don't know how much he leads (I mean that literally, I have no idea).

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2019 10:10 am

fiestavike wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2019 7:51 am

I don't think most people are over reacting. I still think this could be a 10 win team, and I found most things about the game last week encouraging. I see this team headed in the right direction...with one glaring exception. Kirk Cousins so far has played even lower than my expectations. I really thought in this system he would be a model of efficiency.

Moth has been wanting to move on from Zimmer and Spielman for at least the last couple seasons, so his criticism isn't overreaction to the last game either. I don't agree with his take, but its not like its a knee jerk response to losing a game.

As someone else said, there is a realization amongst most of the fan base that is nearly universal now, after that performance last week, that if the Vikings are going to win a championship, they are going to have to overcome Kirk Cousins weaknesses in order to do it, and that is a great disappointment given the expectations many had for him, and even more so given that this team has all the other pieces it would need to be a true contender. This is a much better team than the one's Keenum and Bridgewater got to play QB for during their time in Minnesota, where they still managed to have some success, which is why you are hearing those names come up...It would only take competence from the QB position to put this team in the SB conversation.

This team is more talented than Bridgewaters, yes. Keenum's I would say it's pretty much the same. But Bridgewater is playing for a very talented team in New Orleans and still can't get it done. And Keenum has showed that he's not a very good QB.

Cousins has played lower than my expectations as well. But again, what do we have to really go on? Was week 1 any kind of tell when we got off to a hot start and had no need to throw. Granted he did his job and went 8-10 and a TD but we didn't need to throw 40 times that game. So IMO, that game is a wash. So the only true game we can go off of right now is GB which obviously he played terrible. But this is why I'm saying a lot of this is overreacting. And I know for a fact some on here agree. We are essentially judging this team and Cousins off of 1 game. And yes he played bad so criticize all you want but to say we should cut him/trade him, wishing we still had Keenum, trade for Sloter or trade for Teddy are 100% overreactions and completely unrealistic. And like I said in another post, all 3 of those QBs I just mentioned would have DRASTICALLY struggled in Flips pass happy system. Teddy NEEDED a RB to rely on in order to win. Keenum NEEDED a good run game to win. Sloter never played a down. If we did keep those guys instead of Cousins I can guarantee they wouldn't be on the team this year because they would have won about 4 games last year when they are being forced to pass all game.

And as for Zimmer, again, we're 1-1. Who in the right mind fires there coach when they are 1-1?? Idc what Moth said over the years regarding Spielman and Zimmer. We're heading into week 3. And he's not going to be fired after going 1-1. So why are we discussing it. Discuss it when you actually have a good sample size to go off of. If we're 1-6 then I'm sure we'll all be talking about it. But coming up, we have a good shot to start off 4-1 or 3-2 at the worst. Hell, even after the first 5 games we then have Detroit, Philly at home and Washington. All very winnable games. My point is, we're 1-1 and to have these unrealistic discussions and call for everyones head is as premature as it can get.

Nobody has said most of the things that you assert are being said and nobody is judging Kirk Cousins off of one game. You are simply making strawmen to pound into the ground. Speaking for myself, I want the Vikings to move on from Cousins after his contract is up. I want them to either trade for a QB now, one who might be the future of this team [going forward after this season--and perhaps one who gives them a viable backup plan for this year should Cousins fail to improve] OR much more likely, use whatever draft capital is necessary to select a QB next year so that once Cousins contract is up, the cupboard is not empty. This team is in a window now. It is far better offensively and along the offensive line than it has been at any point under Zimmer's tenure. The offensive philosophy allows the 2019 Vikings to play complimentary football.

Mothman wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2019 1:11 pm
Nobody is suggesting they fire Zimmer now. That would be foolish. This whole thread is about whether he will be the coach beyond this season.

Ok and again, why are we discussing it after 2 games? One of which we dominated Atlanta. We’re discussing it because of the GB game. We all know what has happened in the past in zimmers tenure. It’s nothing new to anyone. It’s being discussed because of the GB game hence why the thread was started after that game. Yeah it seemed they were unprepared early. Especially the defense. But you can look across the league and even the best teams in the nfl have games where they flop. The patriots got blown out 3 times last year by average to below average teams. Not just beat, blown out. Jags, lions and titans. Granted they won a SB but that’s my point. You could look at the patriots early last year and say no way they win a SB. And they did. This thread was starting because of the GB game. Sugar coat it however you want. But questioning Zimmer /‘d if he’ll be fired this year after one bad game in week 2, is as premature as it gets. Period

Because it's tied to his coaching performance. Because we just saw the team show up and play the kind of unprepared, frustrating, disappointing game we've been seeing for years now and how they play during Zimmer's sixth season will influence what happens after the season.

We're not goldfish. We have the capacity to consider past performances and future consequences.

It's Zimmer's 6th year and we'd be naive to think this isn't a "put up or shut up" year for him to at least some extent. The Wilfs tend to be pretty patient so who knows but his team can't keep laying eggs like they have in their last two divisional games and they can't afford to miss the playoffs again. If they do, then realistically, he may not be coaching the Vikings in 2020.

I understand it's early in the season with a lot of football remaining to be played but you may as well face facts: speculation about the future of a head coach in Zimmer's position is inevitable.

Zim just got an extension. I would imagine he’s tied to cousins if anything. But again, he has one of the better records for coaches in the nfc. Unless something drastic happens, I’m telling you right now he won’t be fired.

We've got 5+ years. That IS a good sample size for discussion.

Again I find it odd that it all of the sudden is being discussed again after 1 bad game. This is nothing new to us. We all know our past records, playoff history, etc. It’s premature. Wilf isn’t going to look at his past records. This league is all about what you’re doing NOW. Player or coach. And right now, he’s two games into a season. Which is why I say this is premature.

Again, we can weigh more than what's occurring right now. Cousins has a track record. Zimmer has a track record. Spielman has a track record. There's more to discuss than just week-to-week performance. What they do now fits within the bigger picture of their overall performance.

We started 2-2 in 2017 and went to the nfc championship game. Just another reason why I take one game in week 2 with a grain of salt

fiestavike wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2019 1:18 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2019 10:10 am

This team is more talented than Bridgewaters, yes. Keenum's I would say it's pretty much the same. But Bridgewater is playing for a very talented team in New Orleans and still can't get it done. And Keenum has showed that he's not a very good QB.

Cousins has played lower than my expectations as well. But again, what do we have to really go on? Was week 1 any kind of tell when we got off to a hot start and had no need to throw. Granted he did his job and went 8-10 and a TD but we didn't need to throw 40 times that game. So IMO, that game is a wash. So the only true game we can go off of right now is GB which obviously he played terrible. But this is why I'm saying a lot of this is overreacting. And I know for a fact some on here agree. We are essentially judging this team and Cousins off of 1 game. And yes he played bad so criticize all you want but to say we should cut him/trade him, wishing we still had Keenum, trade for Sloter or trade for Teddy are 100% overreactions and completely unrealistic. And like I said in another post, all 3 of those QBs I just mentioned would have DRASTICALLY struggled in Flips pass happy system. Teddy NEEDED a RB to rely on in order to win. Keenum NEEDED a good run game to win. Sloter never played a down. If we did keep those guys instead of Cousins I can guarantee they wouldn't be on the team this year because they would have won about 4 games last year when they are being forced to pass all game.

And as for Zimmer, again, we're 1-1. Who in the right mind fires there coach when they are 1-1?? Idc what Moth said over the years regarding Spielman and Zimmer. We're heading into week 3. And he's not going to be fired after going 1-1. So why are we discussing it. Discuss it when you actually have a good sample size to go off of. If we're 1-6 then I'm sure we'll all be talking about it. But coming up, we have a good shot to start off 4-1 or 3-2 at the worst. Hell, even after the first 5 games we then have Detroit, Philly at home and Washington. All very winnable games. My point is, we're 1-1 and to have these unrealistic discussions and call for everyones head is as premature as it can get.

Nobody has said most of the things that you assert are being said and nobody is judging Kirk Cousins off of one game. You are simply making strawmen to pound into the ground. Speaking for myself, I want the Vikings to move on from Cousins after his contract is up. I want them to either trade for a QB now, one who might be the future of this team [going forward after this season--and perhaps one who gives them a viable backup plan for this year should Cousins fail to improve] OR much more likely, use whatever draft capital is necessary to select a QB next year so that once Cousins contract is up, the cupboard is not empty. This team is in a window now. It is far better offensively and along the offensive line than it has been at any point under Zimmer's tenure. The offensive philosophy allows the 2019 Vikings to play complimentary football.

What am I claiming people said that they didn’t say? Guys wanted Keenum, teddy and/or sloter instead and wondered what we would need to do to get them. Threads were started over it no less. It’s unnecessary, unrealistic discussing that does nothing but cause argument is what I’m saying.

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2019 2:47 pmOk and again, why are we discussing it after 2 games? One of which we dominated Atlanta. We’re discussing it because of the GB game. We all know what has happened in the past in zimmers tenure. It’s nothing new to anyone. It’s being discussed because of the GB game hence why the thread was started after that game. Yeah it seemed they were unprepared early. Especially the defense. But you can look across the league and even the best teams in the nfl have games where they flop. The patriots got blown out 3 times last year by average to below average teams. Not just beat, blown out. Jags, lions and titans. Granted they won a SB but that’s my point. You could look at the patriots early last year and say no way they win a SB. And they did. This thread was starting because of the GB game. Sugar coat it however you want. But questioning Zimmer /‘d if he’ll be fired this year after one bad game in week 2, is as premature as it gets. Period

If you think it's premature and unworthy of discussion, you can simply ignore the subject.

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2019 10:10 am My point is, we're 1-1 and to have these unrealistic discussions and call for everyones head is as premature as it can get.

Overdue if you ask me. The writing has been on the wall for years. Zimmer is mediocre as a HC, and people just keep drinking the purple kool-aid. We lost the only real challenge we've faced so far, just like we have usually done over Zimmer's tenure. Just takes some people longer to see it I guess.

of course I don't want him fired now, two games in, but we need to start looking and thinking about his replacement now. If he somehow shows that its all coming together for him in year 6 it has to happen real fast.

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2019 2:51 pm

fiestavike wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2019 1:18 pm

Nobody has said most of the things that you assert are being said and nobody is judging Kirk Cousins off of one game. You are simply making strawmen to pound into the ground. Speaking for myself, I want the Vikings to move on from Cousins after his contract is up. I want them to either trade for a QB now, one who might be the future of this team [going forward after this season--and perhaps one who gives them a viable backup plan for this year should Cousins fail to improve] OR much more likely, use whatever draft capital is necessary to select a QB next year so that once Cousins contract is up, the cupboard is not empty. This team is in a window now. It is far better offensively and along the offensive line than it has been at any point under Zimmer's tenure. The offensive philosophy allows the 2019 Vikings to play complimentary football.

What am I claiming people said that they didn’t say? Guys wanted Keenum, teddy and/or sloter instead and wondered what we would need to do to get them. Threads were started over it no less. It’s unnecessary, unrealistic discussing that does nothing but cause argument is what I’m saying.

Do you do anything but complain about other members?

Mothman wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2019 3:39 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2019 2:47 pmOk and again, why are we discussing it after 2 games? One of which we dominated Atlanta. We’re discussing it because of the GB game. We all know what has happened in the past in zimmers tenure. It’s nothing new to anyone. It’s being discussed because of the GB game hence why the thread was started after that game. Yeah it seemed they were unprepared early. Especially the defense. But you can look across the league and even the best teams in the nfl have games where they flop. The patriots got blown out 3 times last year by average to below average teams. Not just beat, blown out. Jags, lions and titans. Granted they won a SB but that’s my point. You could look at the patriots early last year and say no way they win a SB. And they did. This thread was starting because of the GB game. Sugar coat it however you want. But questioning Zimmer /‘d if he’ll be fired this year after one bad game in week 2, is as premature as it gets. Period

If you think it's premature and unworthy of discussion, you can simply ignore the subject.

Moth, you hit the nail on the head with this statement! I fear your advice will fall upon deaf ears though. I wonder how many more members here would engage in discussion if they didn’t get their thoughts and opinions discredited each time they share them?

Alaskan wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2019 5:48 pm

Mothman wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2019 3:39 pm

If you think it's premature and unworthy of discussion, you can simply ignore the subject.

Moth, you hit the nail on the head with this statement! I fear your advice will fall upon deaf ears though. I wonder how many more members here would engage in discussion if they didn’t get their thoughts and opinions discredited each time they share them?

I didn’t realize that saying some guys on here are overreacting is against the rules.....

No less guys express their opinions time after time on here. They aren’t discredited, for the most part, unless they are outlandish and unrealistic. For example trading for sloter. Or trading for Keenum. Not gonna happen, not realistic, why bother.

Purple Martin wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2019 4:19 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2019 2:51 pm

What am I claiming people said that they didn’t say? Guys wanted Keenum, teddy and/or sloter instead and wondered what we would need to do to get them. Threads were started over it no less. It’s unnecessary, unrealistic discussing that does nothing but cause argument is what I’m saying.

Do you do anything but complain about other members?

I’m “complaining about other members” because I called trading for sloter or Keenum unrealistic? Sorry but it is. Not complaining. I’m expressing that it’s unrealistic. Nor a good idea for the team to do