Vikings Message Board.Com

PurpleMustReign wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2019 4:41 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2019 1:20 pm

I mean define "looked good"? He comes up with some big catches here and there but it's pretty hard to tell if he's a good TE or not.

I think he's a better overall tight end than Rudolph. He's a far better blocker (he's actually really, really good at it) and catches what is thrown his way. Obviously he doesn't have the stats Kyle does but when I think of a TE I see David Morgan before Rudolph.

Oh yeah he’s definitely a good blocker. He’s just hard to judge when it comes to route running and pass catching. He has a few good catches here and there but you won’t ever be able to tell unless you see more volume. He’s not going to be able to make those post up/defender all over you type catches Rudy does. As a blocker I’m high on him but as an overall pass catching TE, not really until I see more

VikingLord wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2019 5:57 pm

mike2mike wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:02 pm

The structure of the contract was good, less than 50% guarenteed, spread over 5 years, a lot less than the 18M number per year thrown around, probably less up front, he took less then he was offered by the jets to stay with us.
Also, the Vikings upping their offer in the eleventh hour suggests they have some unforeseen cap windfall. There are 3 ways that this could happen. Either we had some money allocated to defense and Sheldon and Suh and others had too high of aśking price or a player who was previously unlikely to restructure that we planned on keeping was willing to take a cut and we may be finalizing something like Reif restructuring or Linval Joseph or something. The possibility of signing Suh might motivate Joseph to restructure to stick around for instance.
The third and I think most likely scenario is we have a silent bidding war between GMs and we are close to finalizing a trade that sends a player away and saves cap room that we weren’t sure would be available.
A possible long shot twist would be trading Rudolph that might explain why we haven’t asked him to restructure yet even though it’s probably Waynes.

For all it's supposed talent, this is an 8-7, non-playoff team, and for a team so tight up against the cap, it would seem there is room to shed some dead weight. Cousins is off-limits in that discussion (as he should be at this point), but there are other guys who could, and probably should, find themselves on the outside looking in before too long. Barr isn't going to be one of them, but guys like Rudolph, Griffen, and one of Waynes/Rhodes probably will be before too long. I wouldn't be shocked to see 3 of those 4 players gone before the draft.

Barr would have been the perfect guy to let go, since a no name LB like Wilson played every bit as good as him. And this isnt only my opinion, its one of experts and fans a like. Re-signing someone like Barr was a huge mistake, by Rick. So was not dumping Kyle Rudolph (its too frigging late now). Why Rick decided keeping someone that only plays when he feels like it, with Barr, and letting someone that improved every single year he played, like Waynes, (if this happens, which it will because we over spent on Cousins), makes me furious. I cant wait till Rick is fired, even the Wilfs, with NO football knowledge, will know its time to let Rick go after this year. And sign a new HC and see if we can get Zimmer as a DC. Cause things are not, and havent been going the right way in years for this team.

Rudolph isn't going anywhere unless someone gives us a legit G for him. He's a solid TE just not shifty to break tackles.

Bigwehrm wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:47 pm Rudolph isn't going anywhere unless someone gives us a legit G for him. He's a solid TE just not shifty to break tackles.

Or to block well, or run routes, or get open fast enough for any QB to throw the ball to him with the Oline we have.

PurpleKoolaid wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:26 pm

VikingLord wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2019 5:57 pm

For all it's supposed talent, this is an 8-7, non-playoff team, and for a team so tight up against the cap, it would seem there is room to shed some dead weight. Cousins is off-limits in that discussion (as he should be at this point), but there are other guys who could, and probably should, find themselves on the outside looking in before too long. Barr isn't going to be one of them, but guys like Rudolph, Griffen, and one of Waynes/Rhodes probably will be before too long. I wouldn't be shocked to see 3 of those 4 players gone before the draft.

Barr would have been the perfect guy to let go, since a no name LB like Wilson played every bit as good as him. And this isnt only my opinion, its one of experts and fans a like. Re-signing someone like Barr was a huge mistake, by Rick. So was not dumping Kyle Rudolph (its too frigging late now). Why Rick decided keeping someone that only plays when he feels like it, with Barr, and letting someone that improved every single year he played, like Waynes, (if this happens, which it will because we over spent on Cousins), makes me furious. I cant wait till Rick is fired, even the Wilfs, with NO football knowledge, will know its time to let Rick go after this year. And sign a new HC and see if we can get Zimmer as a DC. Cause things are not, and havent been going the right way in years for this team.

Barr is around because Zimmer thinks he was very important to his defense. Which means he is very important to his defense.

You might think Wilson played just as well as Barr, clearly Zimmer doesn't think it is close, and Zimmer knows a thousand times more about defense than all of us combined.

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:21 am

PurpleKoolaid wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:26 pm

Barr would have been the perfect guy to let go, since a no name LB like Wilson played every bit as good as him. And this isnt only my opinion, its one of experts and fans a like. Re-signing someone like Barr was a huge mistake, by Rick. So was not dumping Kyle Rudolph (its too frigging late now). Why Rick decided keeping someone that only plays when he feels like it, with Barr, and letting someone that improved every single year he played, like Waynes, (if this happens, which it will because we over spent on Cousins), makes me furious. I cant wait till Rick is fired, even the Wilfs, with NO football knowledge, will know its time to let Rick go after this year. And sign a new HC and see if we can get Zimmer as a DC. Cause things are not, and havent been going the right way in years for this team.

Barr is around because Zimmer thinks he was very important to his defense. Which means he is very important to his defense.

You might think Wilson played just as well as Barr, clearly Zimmer doesn't think it is close, and Zimmer knows a thousand times more about defense than all of us combined.

The same defense that has choked in the two or three biggest games of Zimmer's career?

PurpleMustReign wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:35 am

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:21 am

Barr is around because Zimmer thinks he was very important to his defense. Which means he is very important to his defense.

You might think Wilson played just as well as Barr, clearly Zimmer doesn't think it is close, and Zimmer knows a thousand times more about defense than all of us combined.

The same defense that has choked in the two or three biggest games of Zimmer's career?

Which are those?

The choked in the NFCCG for sure, but were pretty good in the 2 other biggest games (2015 WC, 2017 divisional round).

If you are referring to the Bears game this year, the defense wasn't the problem, the offense being unable to sustain any sort of drive was.

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:21 am

PurpleKoolaid wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:26 pm

Barr would have been the perfect guy to let go, since a no name LB like Wilson played every bit as good as him. And this isnt only my opinion, its one of experts and fans a like. Re-signing someone like Barr was a huge mistake, by Rick. So was not dumping Kyle Rudolph (its too frigging late now). Why Rick decided keeping someone that only plays when he feels like it, with Barr, and letting someone that improved every single year he played, like Waynes, (if this happens, which it will because we over spent on Cousins), makes me furious. I cant wait till Rick is fired, even the Wilfs, with NO football knowledge, will know its time to let Rick go after this year. And sign a new HC and see if we can get Zimmer as a DC. Cause things are not, and havent been going the right way in years for this team.

Barr is around because Zimmer thinks he was very important to his defense. Which means he is very important to his defense.

You might think Wilson played just as well as Barr, clearly Zimmer doesn't think it is close, and Zimmer knows a thousand times more about defense than all of us combined.

Exactly. I said if we were to let anyone walk, it would be Barr instead of Richardson. The Vikings did the opposite. I'm not completely against it. Mainly because he actually played much better this past year IMO. His rookie year he was a stud. The following two years he was terrible. If he continued that trend last year and was terrible, I'd be mad about this signing. But he played excellent this year IMO (outside of the Rams game). In his defense, you cant expect Barr or any LB in the NFL to guard a slot WR no less one of Kupps caliber. That was more on Zimmer than anything leaving Barr on an island like that.

But guys want to complain about the Barr signing, but arent realizing that all that does is open up another massive hole on this team, with little cap to spend. I know for a fact I would take re-signing Barr any day over overpaying a guy like Billy Turner just because "we need a guard". That's a poor way to approach free agency if you ask me. Instead you keep a guy around that knows your system and is a leader.

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:44 am

PurpleMustReign wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:35 am

The same defense that has choked in the two or three biggest games of Zimmer's career?

Which are those?

The choked in the NFCCG for sure, but were pretty good in the 2 other biggest games (2015 WC, 2017 divisional round).

If you are referring to the Bears game this year, the defense wasn't the problem, the offense being unable to sustain any sort of drive was.

Yeah outside of the Eagles game, this defense has hardly ever "choked" and have given elite QBs in this league a lot of trouble

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:21 am Barr is around because Zimmer thinks he was very important to his defense. Which means he is very important to his defense.

You might think Wilson played just as well as Barr, clearly Zimmer doesn't think it is close, and Zimmer knows a thousand times more about defense than all of us combined.

This.

Spielman isn't making moves in a vacuum. He's relying on the head coach and his staff to help him prioritize player personnel moves, so if Spielman resigned Barr and made that signing a priority over other moves, it's because Zimmer wants Barr in his defense. It's as simple as that.

Zimmer's job is tied to the team's success, so I completely agree with your assessment of Wilson's performance relative to Barr's as well. If Zimmer thought it was close, no way would he tell Rick to make the Barr signing a priority.

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:21 am

PurpleKoolaid wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:26 pm

Barr would have been the perfect guy to let go, since a no name LB like Wilson played every bit as good as him. And this isnt only my opinion, its one of experts and fans a like. Re-signing someone like Barr was a huge mistake, by Rick. So was not dumping Kyle Rudolph (its too frigging late now). Why Rick decided keeping someone that only plays when he feels like it, with Barr, and letting someone that improved every single year he played, like Waynes, (if this happens, which it will because we over spent on Cousins), makes me furious. I cant wait till Rick is fired, even the Wilfs, with NO football knowledge, will know its time to let Rick go after this year. And sign a new HC and see if we can get Zimmer as a DC. Cause things are not, and havent been going the right way in years for this team.

Barr is around because Zimmer thinks he was very important to his defense. Which means he is very important to his defense.

You might think Wilson played just as well as Barr, clearly Zimmer doesn't think it is close, and Zimmer knows a thousand times more about defense than all of us combined.

If Barr is crap as some think a team wouldn't have signed him right off the bat when FA started. Yes teams make mistakes in FA. But he wouldn't even be a consideration. Wilson played as well. OK. Lets get a 1st round pick for him. You couldn't get a pack of gum because he's a scrub which are a dime a dozen. Every team overspends for QBs except the Pats. How in the world can any QB make more than Brady which includes Bortles. Cousins and the team as a whole gave us a chance. You can blame every loss on him. I watch also. We had a highly paid DE that want awol. We had a highly paid CB who was a shell of his greatness. We had a FG kicker who couldn't make a kick. We had a C who regressed to the point where the only thing he could do at a decent level was snap the ball. Even L Joseph quite and laid down and took the last quarter of the season off. Was pushed all over the field. He's finished. But the blame is across the board. Including Rick and Zim. The bigger problem is how do they fix it. IMO get rid of the CAP crushers who did nothing. That is step one. In the NFL you can't wait years to see if a player still has it. It don't work that way. They can take the recycled/reboot route and hope players turn it around but I wouldn't do that.

The message that the Vikings are sending about Barr suggest that one of the reasons he was a signing priority for the defense is that he's like a coach on the field. The clips I have watched mentioned how he can see things and call out adjustments. That's something we don't really see on TV or from the stands. It's hard to make an argument against Zimmer on that point.

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:21 amBarr is around because Zimmer thinks he was very important to his defense. Which means he is very important to his defense.

You might think Wilson played just as well as Barr, clearly Zimmer doesn't think it is close, and Zimmer knows a thousand times more about defense than all of us combined.

Whoa, wait just a doggone minute.

Are you telling me the "Barr is crap ... everybody knows it" argument isn't valid?

Are you further telling me that Mike Zimmer knows more about defense than the experts on this board?

I am shocked. Shocked, I tell you.

I was one of the ones who would have not been upset if Barr would have went.
But I like the contract he got.

halfgiz wrote: ↑Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:23 pm I was one of the ones who would have not been upset if Barr would have went.
But I like the contract he got.

Honestly, I was feeling the same way about him leaving but if Zimmer thought he was that important I am thrilled they were able to keep him. Also glad Griff and Rudolph took less to stay. I think they will go heavy on oline in the draft.